Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

shootermacg

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's a cliché but also a truism that the Irish team's biggest strength (as well as its greatest weakness) is that they play at the level of the opposition. Of course, this is a problem in quarter finals because if you're waiting to see what the level of the opposition is, they could be over the horizon before you can get going.

It all comes from the fact that as a people the Irish have massive egos, but very low self esteem. They're always worried and insecure what other countries might think of them. So, to avert the danger of being trendsetters that might come with starting fast (which would open you up to being seen as different by other nations you feel inferior to) from the mental side of things it's far safer to let the other team potentially do that and then react.

I think Ireland's best chance of being mentally right for a RWC QF might be if they were facing Australia or England. The former because historically there were a lot of Irish in Australia, which means they'd be seen as similar, and the latter because Ireland have no problem getting up for a game against England.

Drink is a terrible thing

Thrashssacre

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's a cliché but also a truism that the Irish team's biggest strength (as well as its greatest weakness) is that they play at the level of the opposition. Of course, this is a problem in quarter finals because if you're waiting to see what the level of the opposition is, they could be over the horizon before you can get going.

It all comes from the fact that as a people the Irish have massive egos, but very low self esteem. They're always worried and insecure what other countries might think of them. So, to avert the danger of being trendsetters that might come with starting fast (which would open you up to being seen as different by other nations you feel inferior to) from the mental side of things it's far safer to let the other team potentially do that and then react.

I think Ireland's best chance of being mentally right for a RWC QF might be if they were facing Australia or England. The former because historically there were a lot of Irish in Australia, which means they'd be seen as similar, and the latter because Ireland have no problem getting up for a game against England.

What are you on about.....

siltirocker

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's a cliché but also a truism that the Irish team's biggest strength (as well as its greatest weakness) is that they play at the level of the opposition. Of course, this is a problem in quarter finals because if you're waiting to see what the level of the opposition is, they could be over the horizon before you can get going.

It all comes from the fact that as a people the Irish have massive egos, but very low self esteem. They're always worried and insecure what other countries might think of them. So, to avert the danger of being trendsetters that might come with starting fast (which would open you up to being seen as different by other nations you feel inferior to) from the mental side of things it's far safer to let the other team potentially do that and then react.

I think Ireland's best chance of being mentally right for a RWC QF might be if they were facing Australia or England. The former because historically there were a lot of Irish in Australia, which means they'd be seen as similar, and the latter because Ireland have no problem getting up for a game against England.

You're being harassed above but if I recall: O'Driscoll, O'Connell, or Horgan, or one of them made this point at the last world cup. Particularly the "often play to the oppositions level".

Burkie1203

NPHET want level 5

If govt agree, we are going to lose at least one province from pro rugby this season

Bazzo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

NPHET want level 5

If govt agree, we are going to lose at least one province from pro rugby this season

I think we all heard you the first 15 times

Tomtom364

Burkie1203 wrote: »

NPHET want level 5

If govt agree, we are going to lose at least one province from pro rugby this season

Leinster cost the most.
Clearly the one to go.
Shame.

thomond2006

I reckon Leinster have had enough success.

Adiós.

Any sign of an Ireland squad yet?

KBurke85

Deleted User wrote: »

Any sign of an Ireland squad yet?

Due to be named either tomorrow evening or Thursday morning per Murray Kinsella

We've potentially a big problem with the front row.

First and second choice tightheads injured, Healy's form isn't great and hooker is up in the air. Glad we have Italy first.

arsebiscuits1

Deleted User wrote: »

We've potentially a big problem with the front row.

First and second choice tightheads injured, Healy's form isn't great and hooker is up in the air. Glad we have Italy first.

Not ideal is it?

O'Toole is out for a couple of weeks too.

To be fair. Bealham has been performing really strongly recently and has always been a decent scrummager.

John Ryan more than capable too.

Moore still an unknown. He's been nearly 6 years out of test rugby and hasn't looked near the level since he left.

Hopefully Killer comes back soon. And Jack McGrath still well capable of high level minutes.

Heffernan and Kelleher in pole for the 2 shirt. Heff in particular has impressed me. Very decent 80 minute shift at the weekend. Fundamentals are excellent.

Kelleher still a good option. Lineout woes have been very much overstated. He's got to shoulder a part of the blame. But Leinsters pack have been poor since the season restarted with their lineout organisation

bilston

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Not ideal is it?

O'Toole is out for a couple of weeks too.

To be fair. Bealham has been performing really strongly recently and has always been a decent scrummager.

John Ryan more than capable too.

Moore still an unknown. He's been nearly 6 years out of test rugby and hasn't looked near the level since he left.

Hopefully Killer comes back soon. And Jack McGrath still well capable of high level minutes.

Heffernan and Kelleher in pole for the 2 shirt. Heff in particular has impressed me. Very decent 80 minute shift at the weekend. Fundamentals are excellent.

Kelleher still a good option. Lineout woes have been very much overstated. He's got to shoulder a part of the blame. But Leinsters pack have been poor since the season restarted with their lineout organisation

Surely Herring is in pole position for the No.2 jersey. Kelleher has done nothing to deserve to take the jersey from him, other than be 5 or 6 years younger.

Haven't seen enough of Heffernen this season in fairness

siltirocker

bilston wrote: »

Surely Herring is in pole position for the No.2 jersey. Kelleher has done nothing to deserve to take the jersey from him, other than be 5 or 6 years younger.

Haven't seen enough of Heffernen this season in fairness

Heffernan has been the strongest of the 3 in my eyes. Considerably so too.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

Surely Herring is in pole position for the No.2 jersey. Kelleher has done nothing to deserve to take the jersey from him, other than be 5 or 6 years younger.

Haven't seen enough of Heffernen this season in fairness

v Italy, France & England - 2. Herring
16. Kelleher

I dont believe Kelleher has been that bad. Throwing hasnt been great - "not down to just him" is fair. He has great potential.
To drop him for Cronin (of all people!) for Saracens was an idiotic selection by Cullen.

Heffernan been excellent. Looks steady enough at lineout. Tidy around the pitch and puts in a good few tip-on passes. Played the full 80 v Cardiff.

v Wales and Georgia - 2. Kelleher
16. Heffernan

Scrum will be demolished v France and England

UAEguy2020

ionadnapokot wrote: »

v Italy, France & England - 2. Herring
16. Kelleher

I dont believe Kelleher has been that bad. Throwing hasnt been great - "not down to just him" is fair. He has great potential.
To drop him for Cronin (of all people!) for Saracens was an idiotic selection by Cullen.

Heffernan been excellent. Looks steady enough at lineout. Tidy around the pitch and puts in a good few tip-on passes. Played the full 80 v Cardiff.

v Wales and Georgia - 2. Kelleher
16. Heffernan

Scrum will be demolished v France and England

Wasn’t demolished by England the first time out with the same hookers.

arsebiscuits1

bilston wrote: »

Surely Herring is in pole position for the No.2 jersey. Kelleher has done nothing to deserve to take the jersey from him, other than be 5 or 6 years younger.

Haven't seen enough of Heffernen this season in fairness

Kelleher is more than 8 years younger

And his point of difference over his peers here would be a legitimate carrying threat that Ireland hasn't seen in a hooker in a long time.

Kelleher offers the ability to break the first tackle. Something we've been sorely lacking in green with Ryan and Stander carrying essentially the entire time.

Athletically he'd be the best of the 3.

The obvious caveat is his throwing has been put under scrutiny recently. But this point has been over stated. There was a game recently where Leinster lost 5 lineouts in the first half which Murray Kinsella dove into. They were largely down to system failures.

Against Dragons only one lineout went astray which was entirely down to it going through VDFs hands.

Obviously Kelleher has to shoulder some of the blame for lost throws. And it's certainly a part of his game that needs work.

But I don't believe he's a noticeably poorer thrower than any of his peers

bilston

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

The obvious caveat is his throwing has been put under scrutiny recently. But this point has been over stated. There was a game recently where Leinster lost 5 lineouts in the first half which Murray Kinsella dove into. They were largely down to system failures.

Against Dragons only one lineout went astray which was entirely down to it going through VDFs hands.

Fair point

Although I have to smile, because I can think of a recently retired Irish captain who must wish that there was that level of analysis done on Irish lineout malfunctions in the last 10 years.

arsebiscuits1

bilston wrote: »

Fair point

Although I have to smile, because I can think of a recently retired Irish captain who must wish that there was that level of analysis done on Irish lineout malfunctions in the last 10 years.

Fully agree.

To the lay person it's far too easy to pin the blame entirely on the hooker for a lineout fail.

In fairness though. I don't think there is a hooker out there today who hasn't had their throwing criticised by a pocket of the public

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/LaighinPit/status/1313871874221379585?s=19

Clegg

So Conway and Stockdale on either wing with Larmour at 15. Not ideal as that's a back three with two out of form players in it. Wouldn't be averse to seeing Farrell throw in someone like Keenan for a first cap. But that's highly unlikely.

errlloyd

Clegg wrote: »

So Conway and Stockdale on either wing with Larmour at 15. Not ideal as that's a back three with two out of form players in it. Wouldn't be averse to seeing Farrell throw in someone like Keenan for a first cap. But that's highly unlikely.

Only for games 1 and 2. Then JLowe

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/ckSportLeader/status/1313900051203272704?s=19

UAEguy2020

Would definitely look at throwing Keenan in at 15, he is just what we are crying out for at 15 as he attacks the line very well but also has excellent positional sense which we have been so badly exposed at by England and if anything I think the backfield defense has been far more concerning against England than us getting outmuscled imo.

15 Keenan
14 Conway/Larmour
11 Stockdale

For the Italy game imo.

OneLungDavy

It's crazy to think I'd more confident in having Keenan in the back 3 over Stockdale, considering their difference in experience.

aloooof

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Would definitely look at throwing Keenan in at 15, he is just what we are crying out for at 15 as he attacks the line very well but also has excellent positional sense which we have been so badly exposed at by England and if anything I think the backfield defense has been far more concerning against England than us getting outmuscled imo.

15 Keenan
14 Conway/Larmour
11 Stockdale

For the Italy game imo.

Whatever way Farrell goes, I don’t see Conway missing out on the starting 15.

phily2002

Looks like Cooney is not making the squad going by the42. Pretty crazy call if true

Squidgy Black

Murray Kinsella saying Craig Casey will be brought in as a development player similar to Baird and Harry Byrne last year.

Clegg

phily2002 wrote: »

Looks like Cooney is not making the squad going by the42. Pretty crazy call if true

Cooney hasn't been in good form since rugby returned. Seems a bit unfair as he was the form scrum half for 18 months prior to that yet still couldn't get a start. Based on recent form you can't really complain though.

phily2002

Clegg wrote: »

Cooney hasn't been in good form since rugby returned. Seems a bit unfair as he was the form scrum half for 18 months prior to that yet still couldn't get a start. Based on recent form you can't really complain though.

Yeah but Murray has been poor for 2 years and keeps on getting played, seems one rule for central contracted players who get unlimited number of games to find form. The rest only need a couple of below and out of the squad...

Buer

phily2002 wrote: »

Looks like Cooney is not making the squad going by the42. Pretty crazy call if true

Not really. He has been poor by his standards since rugby restarted and was dropped by Ulster for the Pro14 final.

There's limited space for scrum halves. Marmion and JGP have been the best. Murray has been solid if unspectacular and is a vastly experienced test player; his showings have certainly been comfortably better than Cooney's.

McGrath and Cooney don't deserve spots on current form.