Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Faugheen

ClanofLams wrote: »

Pipe dream scenarios?? As opposed to yourself who seems to be suggesting no one else in the world would be interested in the job?

If NZ win the World Cup Scott Robertson will have the choice between joining Ian Fosters backroom team or staying at the crusaders another four plus years.

Making a guy head coach for the first time at international level is highly unusual, just because it is something you ‘couldn’t care less about’ doesn’t mean it’s not a serious risk.

I asked you who you would like to take over, and you suggested Lancaster, Cotter, Joseph, McCall and Robertson.

And you don’t think they’re pipe dream scenarios? Or in the case of Cotter someone who did well all things considering? If he was so good they would have told Townsend to do one.

Clearly giving the man a chance is too much for you, so I’ll leave you with your dreams.

salmocab

lord quackinton wrote: »

I have posted else where

Farrell needs paying off and I think he will be
Pat lam would be my choice.
The irfu need to spend big on the best coaching ticket they can get
Give thAt coach complete power and told last 4 World Cup 2023 is the only goal
remove ban on foreign based players

You think Farrell will be paid off?
The ban on foreign based players is a great thing.

ClanofLams

Faugheen wrote: »

I asked you who you would like to take over, and you suggested Lancaster, Cotter, Joseph, McCall and Robertson.

And you don’t think they’re pipe dream scenarios? Or in the case of Cotter someone who did well all things considering? If he was so good they would have told Townsend to do one.

Clearly giving the man a chance is too much for you, so I’ll leave you with your dreams.

Cotter was robbed of a World Cup semi final. There was clear improvement from the Scotland team he took over and the one he left. They have regressed since.

No I don’t think it’s a pipe dream that some of those may be interested, one is being ruled out on the basis of texts from someone who knows him. Maybe Lancaster is just plamásing whoever that is, I’m happy at Leinster, no interest in anything etc. He might be someone who keeps things close, he has never categorically said he won’t work at international level again as far as I know.


Having listened to Scott Robertson, he doesn’t strike as someone who will be happy with anything bar head coach and I don’t see him staying with Crusaders another four years. Very feasible he could be on the move from NZ soon.

You seem to think everything on here has to be ultra positive, complete nonsense. I said good luck to Farrell but I didn’t think it would work out. It’s a perfectly reasonable view on a discussion forum ffs.

Deaf student

Had forgotten all about Mc Call until few posts ago. He would be an ideal choice. Somehow read somewhere that irfu dealings with ulster or whatever left him some sort of bad taste. Hard to know if he is available or not cos he hadn't said anything.

Pat Lam would be a good choice given his experience with Connacht or Vern Cotter or Jamie Joseph or any EX AB player with good coaching record.

Lancaster isn't interested in any international rugby as I suppose his last experience with England and the press in England were giving him bad reviews and all over him etc. Think Farrell was with him that time not sure.

Not sure about Andy Farrell.It's like jumping into a deep end.

Faugheen

lord quackinton wrote: »

I have posted else where

Farrell needs paying off and I think he will be
Pat lam would be my choice.
The irfu need to spend big on the best coaching ticket they can get
Give thAt coach complete power and told last 4 World Cup 2023 is the only goal
remove ban on foreign based players

Clearly someone who doesn’t go to any games involving the provinces if you want to remove the ban on foreign based players.

Squidgy Black

Deaf student wrote: »

Had forgotten all about Mc Call until few posts ago. He would be an ideal choice. Somehow read somewhere that irfu dealings with ulster or whatever left him some sort of bad taste. Hard to know if he is available or not cos he hadn't said anything.

Pat Lam would be a good choice given his experience with Connacht or Vern Cotter or Jamie Joseph or any EX AB player with good coaching record.

Not sure about Andy Farrell.It's like jumping into a deep end.

McCall isn't available until 2022 until his contract with Saracens is up barring a buyout, and by all accounts he fell out fairly badly with the IRFU in the way he finished up in Ulster. His name comes up every time someone mentions a new head coach for a province and we go through the same cycle again, there's a reason he hasn't been involved with the IRFU for over 12 years.

bilston

lord quackinton wrote: »

I have posted else where

Farrell needs paying off and I think he will be
Pat lam would be my choice.
The irfu need to spend big on the best coaching ticket they can get
Give thAt coach complete power and told last 4 World Cup 2023 is the only goal
remove ban on foreign based players

Why does Farrell need paid off?

Clegg

I'd have to question the people who want McCall as Ireland head coach. His entire game plan is based on his forward pack suffocating the opposition's.

If you want a break from Schmidt's way of playing you may get a few tweaks to the style, but ultimately the philosophy is the same thing.

Deaf student

Squidgy Black wrote: »

McCall isn't available until 2022 until his contract with Saracens is up barring a buyout, and by all accounts he fell out fairly badly with the IRFU in the way he finished up in Ulster. His name comes up every time someone mentions a new head coach for a province and we go through the same cycle again, there's a reason he hasn't been involved with the IRFU for over 12 years.

12 years is a long time as it must be that bad re Mc Call and IRFU.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

I'd have to question the people who want McCall as Ireland head coach. His entire game plan is based on his forward pack suffocating the opposition's.

If you want a break from Schmidt's way of playing you may get a few tweaks to the style, but ultimately the philosophy is the same thing.

Saracens have one of the best attacks at club level, you're doing them a disservice there.

WoollyRedHat

bilston wrote: »

Why does Farrell need paid off?

Because he has a contract with the Irfu as new.Head Coach.

Clegg

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Saracens have one of the best attacks at club level, you're doing them a disservice there.

Prefaced entirely on the fact that their pack can bully the opposition.

I don't doubt McCall's skill as a coach. He's developed one of the most dominant club sides in the history of European club rugby. But those margins become so.much tighter when you step up to test rugby. I don't see any way that he'd be better than Schmidt based purely on the way Saracens play.

mr_edge_to_you

lord quackinton wrote: »

The irfu need to spend big on the best coaching ticket they can get
Give that coach complete power and told last 4 World Cup 2023 is the only goal

Joe Schmidt had total control and power. Nucifora gave him everything he wanted - players moved around provinces, brought back from the UK/France, rules (all be they unwritten) bent for Sexton, top players being kept on the IRFU payroll, right down to the number of minutes players were playing for their clubs.

ClanofLams

bilston wrote: »

Just give the man a chance. He might surprise you.

It’s a discussion forum, there’s nothing wrong with offering the view that a decision was wrong or that something might not work out. I’m not saying he should be fired now ffs.

There’s extremes on both sides on this board - some calling Schmidt a failure or whatever and then the other extreme is posters who don’t want any questions of coaches or IRFU decision making. We had to take Farrell no one else in the world wants the job etc

Maybe it’ll work out and I hope it does. I have certainly been wrong plenty of times on here so hopefully this is another one to add to the list. But it looks a hasty decision to make someone who has never been head coach at any level in charge of Ireland and if there was a shortlist being drawn up today, I highly doubt he would be top of it.

lord quackinton

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

Joe Schmidt had total control and power. Nucifora gave him everything he wanted - players moved around provinces, brought back from the UK/France, rules (all be they unwritten) bent for Sexton, top players being kept on the IRFU payroll, right down to the number of minutes players were playing for their clubs.

But we are told he had to perform in 6 nations and that was why he could not experiment.
I want that gone

salmocab

lord quackinton wrote: »

But we are told he had to perform in 6 nations and that was why he could not experiment.
I want that gone

Like it or not the 6 nations keeps the lights on.

Shefwedfan

lord quackinton wrote: »

But we are told he had to perform in 6 nations and that was why he could not experiment.
I want that gone

The irfu makes all it’s money from the 6 nations

If they throw it then irfu will go bust and bring all the provinces with them.....

Niallof9

Its amazing how Ireland did so badly for so long and still have professional teams.

Why would it go?

Many people would be excited with new faces. Sponsors could spin it as a new breed. It doesn't necessarily mean large losses?

Look at Irelands under 21s in soccer...8,000 record at their last match in Dublin.

Obviously if it was one, then 2 and so in the six nations etc its an issue. But we had a **** six nations this year!? Are they suddenly bankrupt? Did Leinster not just build a new sub academy gym?

Repeated World Cup failures are far far more damaging to Irish rugby than losing in the 6 Nations.

Its a repeating cycle. We don't give enough time to lads cause of the 6nations or in November cause of the supposed cash cow and then each World Cup we flop and the cycle repeats, yet we hype and then scratch our heads. At some point the WC stuff damages it more. I think we're at that point now. Certainly we never go to another World Cup with such levels of grandeur. Maybe thats the saving of us. The next stop is trying things. I think Andy will be smart enough and man enough to tell the IRFU to do one. Brendan Fanning pointed out that Joe was meticulous in building up his profile around the clubs etc, take the sting out of things. It worked, maybe that went hand in hand with not rocking the IRFU boat.

On the other hand I think Irish rugby is in real trouble if its another bad year with the same schtick. I can see Kearney starting come Feb. He is on 500 k after all

awec

I'm tired of hearing about this 6N vs WC thing as if it's a choice between one or the other.

Wales are in their third semi final. They compete in the 6N, won a grand slam this year and all.

Their clubs are a fcuking joke and yet they consistently show up better than us on the biggest stage.

Niallof9

Yeah and France nearly won as well. the two teams constantly chop and change and try things. It would have been sickening had France won as they fail constantly, win nothing, try stuff etc. And we go with our plans, and our minutes etc and go badly.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if Earls, Kearney , et al are still in the 15 come Feb. At some point somebody like Conway loses all hope and then is too old by the time he gets a real chance.

Shefwedfan

I dont think it is a 6 nations v WC discussion.....

But what would happen if Farrell drops all the senior player that wont make the next WC.....goes with young players. Has a disaster in 6 nations and comes bottom or second from bottom

The country would want him sacked on the spot.

The IRFU need the money but the fan base is the issue. All well and good people posting here with these great ideas, throw the 6 nations....I remember at the start of 2019 6 nations loads of people said they should throw it and concentrate on WC, one loss in and the same people losing the plot because we lost a game.

Farrell after all wants to keep his job, losing a few games in 6 nations with young/old whoever playing will have all of the posters on here calling for him to be fired

lord quackinton

This will seem controversial

But we need the 6 nations money to run the provinces.
Maybe it’s time to sell the provinces
No shortage of buyers

This would allow the irfu to invest in Ireland and the amateur game.
It makes sense.

salmocab

lord quackinton wrote: »

This will seem controversial

But we need the 6 nations money to run the provinces.
Maybe it’s time to sell the provinces
No shortage of buyers

This would allow the irfu to invest in Ireland and the amateur game.
It makes sense.

If you think Ireland aren’t playing enough young up and coming players wait until you see the young players not get a sniff of a game for the PLCs

Shefwedfan

lord quackinton wrote: »

This will seem controversial

But we need the 6 nations money to run the provinces.
Maybe it’s time to sell the provinces
No shortage of buyers

This would allow the irfu to invest in Ireland and the amateur game.
It makes sense.

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P



Makes sense to who?



One of the huge strengths of the Ireland setup is that the IRFU control the players. NZ have a similar setup and the likes of Scotland/Wales etc are all trying to do the same

Even France are putting in more rules to try and take control of the players. The England RU are paying a fortune to clubs for the players to try and control them.....


The rugby World is jealous of the Ireland setup and your best idea is to break it up???? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Niallof9

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont think it is a 6 nations v WC discussion.....

But what would happen if Farrell drops all the senior player that wont make the next WC.....goes with young players. Has a disaster in 6 nations and comes bottom or second from bottom

The country would want him sacked on the spot.

The IRFU need the money but the fan base is the issue. All well and good people posting here with these great ideas, throw the 6 nations....I remember at the start of 2019 6 nations loads of people said they should throw it and concentrate on WC, one loss in and the same people losing the plot because we lost a game.

Farrell after all wants to keep his job, losing a few games in 6 nations with young/old whoever playing will have all of the posters on here calling for him to be fired

No i don't think so. We aren't winning anything with the same side. People would be as understanding as you guys are with Joe. He'd get real praise. Look at the Armour selection. It needed real balls to pick the form player and he didn't do it. If he had and we still lost it would be one less stick to beat Joe with

Niallof9

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont think it is a 6 nations v WC discussion.....

But what would happen if Farrell drops all the senior player that wont make the next WC.....goes with young players. Has a disaster in 6 nations and comes bottom or second from bottom

The country would want him sacked on the spot.

The IRFU need the money but the fan base is the issue. All well and good people posting here with these great ideas, throw the 6 nations....I remember at the start of 2019 6 nations loads of people said they should throw it and concentrate on WC, one loss in and the same people losing the plot because we lost a game.

Farrell after all wants to keep his job, losing a few games in 6 nations with young/old whoever playing will have all of the posters on here calling for him to be fired

No i don't think so. We aren't winning anything with the same side. thats done..kapput. finito. People would be as understanding as you guys are with Joe. He'd get real praise. Look at the Armour selection. It needed real balls to pick the form player and he didn't do it. If he had and we still lost it would be one less stick to beat Joe with

awec

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont think it is a 6 nations v WC discussion.....

But what would happen if Farrell drops all the senior player that wont make the next WC.....goes with young players. Has a disaster in 6 nations and comes bottom or second from bottom

The country would want him sacked on the spot.

The IRFU need the money but the fan base is the issue. All well and good people posting here with these great ideas, throw the 6 nations....I remember at the start of 2019 6 nations loads of people said they should throw it and concentrate on WC, one loss in and the same people losing the plot because we lost a game.

Farrell after all wants to keep his job, losing a few games in 6 nations with young/old whoever playing will have all of the posters on here calling for him to be fired

Why do you think dropping out of form players would leave us finishing bottom? I don't think anyone is arguing for widespread changes straight out the gate, but there has to be a sustained phasing out of the old guard and in of the new guard and it needs to start straight away.

We got properly annihilated twice this 6N. Destroyed in warmup games. Beaten right out the gate by NZ. It's not as if sticking with the same players is going to guarantee that we do any better than we otherwise would.

Niallof9

awec is right and one of the wise men of this forum. Its not a done deal that if you pick young, new hungry lads that they flop. I don't get that at all.

Some of these young lads are at Jimmy Ryan levels. Look at Penny, size isn't big but he's a machine since he was 15. its freaky. We're going to churn out these guys cause we are now in the third or fourth age of professionalism. The golden generation guff was reactionary nonsense to the first wave of young professionals. this is the new normal.

O'Sullivan at Munster, again not a huge man but he is an unreal footballer.

maybe we don't produce enough at provincial to spread around but we have an unreal 23 for Ireland. Like Wales

Like Michaels producing so many is a strength and a weakness. Obviously it needs to be spread about but if one school can do that through facilities and coaching then so can others.

imagine how painful this would be if we knew that there was no real talent coming through...

James Ryan 23, is probably the new captain. Its a blank slate there for farrell to write up, a cherry ready to be plucked. He would win a lot of hearts and minds if he placed it atop the icing of Larmour, Stockdale (rebuilt) Ringrose, Carbery,Conan,Furlong

bilston

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Because he has a contract with the Irfu as new.Head Coach.

But he hasn't started his role yet, so why pay him off before he starts?

bilston

ClanofLams wrote: »

It’s a discussion forum, there’s nothing wrong with offering the view that a decision was wrong or that something might not work out. I’m not saying he should be fired now ffs.

There’s extremes on both sides on this board - some calling Schmidt a failure or whatever and then the other extreme is posters who don’t want any questions of coaches or IRFU decision making. We had to take Farrell no one else in the world wants the job etc

Maybe it’ll work out and I hope it does. I have certainly been wrong plenty of times on here so hopefully this is another one to add to the list. But it looks a hasty decision to make someone who has never been head coach at any level in charge of Ireland and if there was a shortlist being drawn up today, I highly doubt he would be top of it.

I'm certainly not saying don't discuss it. Discuss away which is what I'm doing.

My concern is more that he won't get the same latitude that another coach might get. So if we do end up with 2 or 3 wins in the 6Ns will some fans start calling for his head? Or will they give him time that they would give to someone else?