Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He arrived in the middle of November so eligible for england.

I briefly had the heart put across me.

UAEguy2020

Guinness RFC wrote: »

I suppose I’m getting into semantics and have contradicted myself somewhat. Size can be a perception thing. A player who is filled out looks bigger physically than Toner but may not be as big height and weight wise. I suppose when we refer to size it can be a subjective thing also. Kruis looks bigger than Toner but may not actually be.

The long and short of it is if we are so obsessed about size we are already failing, the fact we can get on top of teams like Wales show we aren’t a physically weak pack and should put to bed any excuse that the Irish team is physically in superior. You look at guys like Rob Herring running straight at George and Sickler and people wonder why we get smashed physically by England...

Once we know we have a pack that isn’t totally useless when it comes to physicality (which it clearly isn’t) then the talk of having bigger players than the opposition is a smoke screen, any coach should at that point find a way to get the best out of what he has and if he can’t that’s on the coach.

CMcsporty

I see Aus & NZ have named their teams for the Bledisloe on Sun
NZ will give 3 debuts off the bench.
Aus will give 3 debuts in starting XV and 1 off the bench.

How many of the 6 uncapped players in the Ireland squad will make their debuts during 6N? 1 off the bench?
Or how many will get proper game time over the next 4 games Italy, France, Wales & England? 2or3 off the bench?

OneLungDavy

kingofthekong wrote: »

Honestly not sure which pack I like the most, all offer different things, would be very interested to see how they do it, front row picks itself back 5 is a toss up:

4. Ryan
5. Roux
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan

---

4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris

---

4.Ryan
5. Baird
6.Doris
7. VDF
8. Stander

---

4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan

---

4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Doris
7. Connors
8.Stander


Theres so many ways they could play it, no idea what combination I would pick

I think Ryan, Doris and Stander are probably nailed on, everyone else is anyones guess what will be the starting pack to play France

4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris


I'd love to see this tested, get your best players on the pitch. A top coach would make this work.

Paul Smeenus

kingofthekong wrote: »

Honestly not sure which pack I like the most, all offer different things, would be very interested to see how they do it, front row picks itself back 5 is a toss up:

4. Ryan
5. Roux
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan

---

4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris

---

4.Ryan
5. Baird
6.Doris
7. VDF
8. Stander

---

4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan

---

4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Doris
7. Connors
8.Stander


Theres so many ways they could play it, no idea what combination I would pick

I think Ryan, Doris and Stander are probably nailed on, everyone else is anyones guess what will be the starting pack to play France

If Kelleher starts in your front row that picks itself, Henderson has to start as the most experienced international lineout caller. You can't really get away just throwing to 2 at international level. A Kelleher lineout called by Ryan partnered by Baird would make me extremely nervous.

CMcsporty

CMcsporty wrote: »

How many of the 6 uncapped players in the Ireland squad will make their debuts during 6N?

It's an interesting question.

Ed Byrne is pretty much guaranteed a bench spot given he's the only other full time loosehead in the squad. I would say the next most likely out of the bunch is Baird who I think will be on the bench against Italy. They may go for a more scrummaging set piece lock for France.

Connors and Gibson-Park have a lot of competition but I'd rate their chances slightly ahead of Keenan and Daly.

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

sydthebeat

In my prediction, between now and Christmas the following will have made their debuts

Ed byrne
Jameson Gibson Park
James Lowe
Ryan baird
Will Connors

And one of Daly / keenan.

Only Byrne will make his debut in the next two games though.

Interested Observer

Deleted User wrote: »

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

Murray and POM.

yerrahbah

Deleted User wrote: »

It's an interesting question.

Ed Byrne is pretty much guaranteed a bench spot given he's the only other full time loosehead in the squad. I would say the next most likely out of the bunch is Baird who I think will be on the bench against Italy. They may go for a more scrummaging set piece lock for France.

Connors and Gibson-Park have a lot of competition but I'd rate their chances slightly ahead of Keenan and Daly.

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

Aki and Conway for me

yerrahbah

yerrahbah wrote: »

Aki and Conway for me

Hard to look beyond Stockdale, Larmour, Conway as the first choice back three albeit wearing what numbers is increasingly challenging to call.

I just don't think any are in good enough form to earn the 'nailed on' label.

CMcsporty

Deleted User wrote: »

It's an interesting question.

Ed Byrne is pretty much guaranteed a bench spot given he's the only other full time loosehead in the squad. I would say the next most likely out of the bunch is Baird who I think will be on the bench against Italy. They may go for a more scrummaging set piece lock for France.

Connors and Gibson-Park have a lot of competition but I'd rate their chances slightly ahead of Keenan and Daly.

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

I actually forgot about Byrne! Yea he's guaranteed a cap from bench.
Baird should definitely get a run. He was the 1 I was thinking of.
Keenan might have a chance of playing 23.

Stockdale is having such a bad run of it at the moment he could do with a confidence booster couple of try's v Italy
There is no way Shaun Edwards missed his utterly shambolic performance v Toulouse.

CMcsporty

CMcsporty wrote: »

I actually forgot about Byrne! Yea he's guaranteed a cap from bench.
Baird should definitely get a run. He was the 1 I was thinking of.
Keenan might have a chance of playing 23.

Stockdale is having such a bad run of it at the moment he could do with a confidence booster couple of try's v Italy
Their is no way Shaun Edwards missed his utterly shambolic performance v Toulouse.

Toulouse's back line regularly make opposition defences look shambolic, I wouldn't be too harsh on Stockdale over that. My suspicion is that he'll be fullback against Italy. He isn't as elusive a runner as Larmour but he's probably better in the air and he's stronger in direct contact.

CMcsporty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Toulouse's back line regularly make opposition defences look shambolic, I wouldn't be too harsh on Stockdale over that. My suspicion is that he'll be fullback against Italy. He isn't as elusive a runner as Larmour but he's probably better in the air and he's stronger in direct contact.

Ah no! It was pathetic. Not just his defence by the way.
His catching, kicking. He even looked slow.
I hope they aren’t moving Larmour from FB. That would be premature. He needs time in the jersey to develop.

awec

While Larmour isn't struggling for form like Stockdale, I don't think he's a particularly stellar fullback. He looks flashy when he gets the ball and has space to run with it.

CMcsporty

awec wrote: »

While Larmour isn't struggling for form like Stockdale, I don't think he's a particularly stellar fullback. He looks flashy when he gets the ball and has space to run with it.

He’s not excelling.... yet!
That’s the way Ireland should look at it.
To move a misfiring Stockdale into FB would be a worrying selection decision from Farrell.

Stockdale is a no.11 at international level in my book. Larmour is a 14 with potential to become a very good FB.

AbusesToilets

awec wrote: »

While Larmour isn't struggling for form like Stockdale, I don't think he's a particularly stellar fullback. He looks flashy when he gets the ball and has space to run with it.

Conway, Larmour, Keenan for me. I know one of them would be playing on an unfamiliar wing, but their the lads in best form, at least of the available options.

Lowe Conway Keenan when he qualifies.

Tomtom364

I see alot of people here and elsewhere are saying Keenan is in with a shout of starting on the wing, or getting the 23 shirt.
And just completely glossing over that Shane Daly has also been called up.

I think Daly has as strong if not stronger chance of featuring then Keenan. He was Munster's go to FB since the restart and was in very good form before lockdown aswell.

Depending on Farrells intentions for the Italy game, if he wants to try things out I could see Daly getting a shot at 15 vs Italy.

However I personally think Farrell is going to go full whack vs Italy in which case Stockdale, Lamour, Conway will be the back 3 and will have a center (Henshaw) in the 23 shirt.

Buer

Tomtom364 wrote: »

However I personally think Farrell is going to go full whack vs Italy in which case Stockdale, Lamour, Conway will be the back 3 and will have a center (Henshaw) in the 23 shirt.

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't the above.

Regarding Keenan/Daly, I think Daly has looked very comfortable and promising during his appearances. He also offers more versatility than Keenan. What Keenan has above Daly is that he has played on the bigger stages and didn't look out of place which puts him in a stronger position automatically. The Saracens game is pretty much as close to test match intensity as you'll get in club rugby. Daly being injured for the last few weeks also doesn't help his chances.

I think both will be capped over the coming month, however.

Tomtom364

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I see alot of people here and elsewhere are saying Keenan is in with a shout of starting on the wing, or getting the 23 shirt.
And just completely glossing over that Shane Daly has also been called up.

I think Daly has as strong if not stronger chance of featuring then Keenan. He was Munster's go to FB since the restart and was in very good form before lockdown aswell.

Depending on Farrells intentions for the Italy game, if he wants to try things out I could see Daly getting a shot at 15 vs Italy.

However I personally think Farrell is going to go full whack vs Italy in which case Stockdale, Lamour, Conway will be the back 3 and will have a center (Henshaw) in the 23 shirt.

Generally agree with you about Daly - very excited to see how he progresses and he seems to have a Kearneyesque composure in the back field.

Jump_In_Jack

Fullback and Hooker the two positions that are reasonably open.

Jump_In_Jack

Could try Henshaw at fullback again.

Dog Botherer

would like to see more specialist fullbacks being tried rather than shoehorning players in there. Daly and Keenan look like rock solid 15s in the making, give them a go.

Richie_Rich89

Buer wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't the above.

Regarding Keenan/Daly, I think Daly has looked very comfortable and promising during his appearances. He also offers more versatility than Keenan. What Keenan has above Daly is that he has played on the bigger stages and didn't look out of place which puts him in a stronger position automatically. The Saracens game is pretty much as close to test match intensity as you'll get in club rugby. Daly being injured for the last few weeks also doesn't help his chances.

I think both will be capped over the coming month, however.

Don't think your versatility comment is accurate. Daly played 13 for Ireland U20s, fullback for Cork Con and Munster, and also left wing for Munster.

Keenan played left wing for Ireland U20s. For Leinster he's mostly been a fullback, but also started on the right wing in a few high profile games recently. I believe he started at least one game for Leinster 'A' at 13 as well.

aloooof

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Don't think your versatility comment is accurate. Daly played 13 for Ireland U20s, fullback for Cork Con and Munster, and also left wing for Munster.

Keenan played left wing for Ireland U20s. For Leinster he's mostly been a fullback, but also started on the right wing in a few high profile games recently. I believe he started at least one game for Leinster 'A' at 13 as well.

Not sure I agree tbh. They've a comparable number of starts, but Daly's appearances are much more evenly spread between Wing and FB. He's got far more experience at centre too, doesn't he?

Player | FB | Wing | Centre | TOTAL
Daly | 7 | 9 | 1 | 17
Keenan | 12 | 4 | 0 | 16

Much easier for a winger / FB to have to cover the opposite wing, than to have to fill in at centre also.

mfceiling

Is anyone else concerned about Lowe's defending? Made a pathetic attempt to tackle Hume in the league final.
Going forward great... defending?

Interested Observer

mfceiling wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned about Lowe's defending? Made a pathetic attempt to tackle Hume in the league final.
Going forward great... defending?

Some might say he was poison, or below AIL standard.

mfceiling

mfceiling wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned about Lowe's defending? Made a pathetic attempt to tackle Hume in the league final.
Going forward great... defending?

His overall defensive game is excellent, he hits plenty of rucks and uses his strength well at the breakdown. He has no problem taking contact from forwards and regularly comes in field for work.

Like all backs, he will occasionally get mis footed and make a poor cover tackle attempt.

His form since lockdown has been so so. He's still going to be first choice the second he is available.

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

His overall defensive game is excellent, he hits plenty of rucks and uses his strength well at the breakdown. He has no problem taking contact from forwards and regularly comes in field for work.

Like all backs, he will occasionally get mis footed and make a poor cover tackle attempt.

His form since lockdown has been so so. He's still going to be first choice the second he is available.

I dont think his defensive game is excellent at all. and he wont be first choice the second he's available. Likely will be in and around squads but not going to be clear first choice

Buer

aloooof wrote: »

Not sure I agree tbh. They've a comparable number of starts, but Daly's appearances are much more evenly spread between Wing and FB. He's got far more experience at centre too, doesn't he? .

Yes, comfortably. Keenan has one appearance at 13 for Leinster A two years ago to my knowledge. Any senior showing has been at 15 or 14.

Daly has started at 11, 14 and 15 for Munster as well as several starts at 13 for Munster A, for Cork Con and was a 13 at underage right up to starting the JWC final at 13.

It's moot anyway. I can't see beyond Aki and Ringrose in the centre and I can't see beyond Henshaw in the 23 jersey as a result. Even if Henshaw is out, I'd consider Farrell the front runner.

thomond2006

I didn't realise Keenan was a few months older than Shane Daly. I assumed Keenan was 20/21?!