Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

awec

blinding wrote: »

Johnny could retire . It would be fierce funny the IRFU dragging Johnny on to the pitch and forcing him to play .:eek::D:eek:

He could retire from rugby completely.

But he won't. Contracted for another 2 years, probably the highest paid player, he's not going to give up the cash.

kilns

There were so many things wrong and it was not just Saturdays game its been coming for the last year and its small things which make the difference despite what people say.

But what was our main strength for so long is our major weakness now and thats the backrow. We just dont have the players in the backrow to make an impact at international level, Stander has much as tries compared to the other dynamic 8s in world rugby is not in that league, as for POM, yes he will do one or two flashy things in a game but will cancel it out with stupidy at times and then the rest of his game is just not up to the standard needed. VdF may be a fine 7 and is young and may offer more with a better supporter act.

But its my belief that is where the real malaise has set in on this Irish team and it has had a knock on effect on the rest of the team

blinding

awec wrote: »

He could retire from rugby completely.

But he won't. Contracted for another 2 years, probably the highest paid player, he's not going to give up the cash.

Would Johnny take the money under false pretences i.e. Not fit enough to play .

kingofthekong

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Craig Casey is the future but currently isn’t even in the Munster squad, the irfu should step in....if they don’t want to promote him and give him a chance then move him to another province....

Same can be said for all provinces, young players need to play, we have too small a pool to have young talent wasting away

Munster are particularly bad at this, Leinster giving plenty of exposure ...Munster bringing guys like Neil Cronin and Kevin Byrne should be questioned

Also hadnt picked O'sullivan for the south african tour who is easily their most promising backrow player since O'mahony

Niallof9

Yeah exactly the same thing will happen with Murray. No matter how badly he plays he won't be dropped. Sponsors love him, he's paid huge money. If he was in England under say the RFU the clubs pay him. He plays more yes, but when his form drops thats on the club who pays him. The RFU and England move onto the new better younger player. Not saying Casey is but didn't Murray outpace Strings. There was less media and sponsors back then so would it have happened today?

For me its always been the flaw. How do we drop, or move on well paid under performing players in our system? we've got lucky that many retired or were injured. But its looking like as the players age better and are better looked after this could be less of a thing. The blockage has been fixed by better movement but there is still resistance and bad management as can be seen in certain cases.

Dillane would have been better moving to Munster say, and Adam Byrne is wasting his career being in and out of the Leinster team when he needs more exposure.

salmocab

blinding wrote: »

Would Johnny take the money under false pretences i.e. Not fit enough to play .

It’s not j3 rugby he can’t tell the coach on Tuesday night his leg is sore.

blinding

salmocab wrote: »

It’s not j3 rugby he can’t tell the coach on Tuesday night his leg is sore.

Is Johnny’s body in good enough condition to fulfil his contract ?

awec

blinding wrote: »

Is Johnny’s body in good enough condition to fulfil his contract ?

Yes.

Is his body in good enough condition to play regularly? No, but that's why he is practically a guest player for Leinster at this stage.

The IRFU couldn't give a damn about Sexton playing for Leinster.

salmocab

blinding wrote: »

Is Johnny’s body in good enough condition to fulfil his contract ?

Very much so I would say

Danthemanhere

Things were clearly wrong for a while, the Joeball tactics were called out. Some people knew they wouldn't pass the world cup test. Schmidt still had his defenders, even during this tournament when it was clear we were playing a brand of rugby that was way off the pace. Now, these same defenders are throwing out any excuse possible instead of facing up to the reality. Schmidt brought a team to this world cup which was hugely under prepared, who's defence was ripped apart easily by Japan and New Zealand and who's attack was easily closed down. They didn't lay a glove on New Zealand. They were building for the world cup quarter final for a few years apparently but it didn't look like it. We were a rabble. The blame lies with Schmidt. Yet, people in the media and elsewhere are trying to give him a free pass.

blinding

Johnny had to be wrapped in cotton wool in Japan . That does not suggest his body is in good enough condition .

Sadly for Johnny it looks like the Eu is now going to outlaw a lot of the tackling that put him in that condition .

blinding

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Things were clearly wrong for a while, the Joeball tactics were called out. Some people knew they wouldn't pass the world cup test. Schmidt still had his defenders, even during this tournament when it was clear we were playing a brand of rugby that was way off the pace. Now, these same defenders are throwing out any excuse possible instead of facing up to the reality. Schmidt brought a team to this world cup which was hugely under prepared, who's defence was ripped apart easily by Japan and New Zealand and who's attack was easily closed down. They didn't lay a glove on New Zealand. They were building for the world cup quarter final for a few years apparently but it didn't look like it. We were a rabble. The blame lies with Schmidt. Yet, people in the media and elsewhere are trying to give him a free pass.

Schmidt was a bit of a one trick pony with Ireland and very successful it was for a long time .

Other teams worked out how to beat the trick and Joe had not come up with some other good ones .

kilns

The question is is Carberry good enough to replace him, I know he has only had substitute appearances at this World Cup but every time he appeared he has been very poor.

Hopefully he will kick on as he most likely is no number 1 if we look to the future however, perhaps we need a change of style too and bring more play makers into the team, so could the team accomodate both Carthy/Byrne and Carberry?

Danthemanhere

kilns wrote: »

The question is is Carberry good enough to replace him, I know he has only had substitute appearances at this World Cup but every time he appeared he has been very poor.

Hopefully he will kick on as he most likely is no number 1 if we look to the future however, perhaps we need a change of style too and bring more play makers into the team, so could the team accomodate both Carthy/Byrne and Carberry?

We need to forget the game plan which involved leaning on 2 players to deliver. It worked for a while but was never a good strategy. A far more varied system where our attack comes from many different angles and individuals and one where it's not easy to predict is what's needed. I have doubts about Farrell being able to deliver this but let's give him a chance.

whatawaster

So who are the contenders for our next captain?

Peter O'Mahony?
CJ Stander?
Conor Murray?

For me, it's a no-brainer that it should be James Ryan.

Our best player, a leader on the field, great age profile.

kilns

whatawaster wrote: »

So who are the contenders for our next captain?

Peter O'Mahony?
CJ Stander?
Conor Murray?

For me, it's a no-brainer that it should be James Ryan.

Our best player, a leader on the field, great age profile.

Ryan is without doubt the only option

Danthemanhere

whatawaster wrote: »

So who are the contenders for our next captain?

Peter O'Mahony?
CJ Stander?
Conor Murray?

For me, it's a no-brainer that it should be James Ryan.

Our best player, a leader on the field, great age profile.

Someone said he should be captain because he spoke to the media after the game the other day. :pac: Give him time, the most important part is rebuilding, I don't mean personel wise per se, our game plan needs a total overhaul.

whatawaster

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Someone said he should be captain because he spoke to the media after the game the other day. :pac: Give him time, the most important part is rebuilding, I don't mean personel wise per se, our game plan needs a total overhaul.

Nontheless, we need a captain in 3-4 months time

Danthemanhere

whatawaster wrote: »

Nontheless, we need a captain in 3-4 months time

Yes and we should give Ryan time, especially with this new coach under extra scrutiny because of his involvement in this past years failures.

blinding

kilns wrote: »

Ryan is without doubt the only option

He’s the only option of those suggested so far anyway . Coaches would have a better evaluation of whether he can cope with it .

Niallof9

Ryan is the only option. There's an argument for Sexton.

Peter O'Mahony doesn't deserve to be captain and a guaranteed starter

whatawaster

Niallof9 wrote: »

Ryan is the only option. There's an argument for Sexton.

Peter O'Mahony doesn't deserve to be captain and a guaranteed starter

Aside from the fact that there are question marks over Sexton's temperament as captain, he won't be around in 4 years, so it would be a very short-term appointment.

Agree re: O'Mahony. If he was 4 year's younger then maybe, but his age and form over the last 12 months are against him.

Professor Genius

Niallof9 wrote: »

Ryan is the only option. There's an argument for Sexton.

Peter O'Mahony doesn't deserve to be captain and a guaranteed starter

Sexton can be discounted. Retirement announcement is imminent next week.

Professor Genius

Professor Genius wrote: »

Sexton can be discounted. Retirement announcement is imminent next week.

I can't see a competitor like him hanging up his boots

kilns

whatawaster wrote: »

Aside from the fact that there are question marks over Sexton's temperament as captain, he won't be around in 4 years, so it would be a very short-term appointment.

Agree re: O'Mahony. If he was 4 year's younger then maybe, but his age and form over the last 12 months are against him.

If Ireland needs to progress and move on to a more "modern" way of playing, OMahony needs to go and therefore cannot be the next captain, he is too slow and offers nothing in carrying

Hopefully Leavy comes back to the player he was and guys like Deegan continue their progression.

Niallof9

Alan QUinlan spouting claptrap on off the ball.

Supposedly we can't offload in the wet weather.I played i think one match in the wet in the last 2 years.

also suggests northern rugby isn't suited for it but cites the skills of players like Nakarawa ...“[Leone] Nakarawa as well, the second-row who plays for Racing 92, we all know him from Glasgow. Every time he goes into contact he looks for an offload." the same guy who did that in Scotland and currently does it in rainy Paris.

Similarly with Lam etc.

D'arcy said the same crap...not in our dna..

https://www.offtheball.com/rugby/something-alien-quinlan-ireland-offloads-916712

Every player in the irish squad could throw Read's offload

Its the will and the way, not some ****ing genetic ability

Danthemanhere

kilns wrote: »

If Ireland needs to progress and move on to a more "modern" way of playing, OMahony needs to go and therefore cannot be the next captain, he is too slow and offers nothing in carrying

Hopefully Leavy comes back to the player he was and guys like Deegan continue their progression.

I think lots of players would appear to be unsuited to an offloading game plan etc but that's because they've never played with it. I think Sexton would have to be dropped anyway, Carbery would be far more suited to an adventurous style of play.

jacothelad

Annabella1 wrote: »

Think the overseas player ban should be removed every 4 years for WC year
This wouldn’t hurt provinces

Currently there are no irish players outside Ireland who are good enough to make the squad or make a difference to the squad.

kilns

jacothelad wrote: »

Currently there are no irish players outside Ireland who are good enough to make the squad or make a difference to the squad.

The only player who people could make a case for is Zebo and hand on heart do people really think he would make a difference, the answer is no

Utah_Saint

who is Irelands current and future Skills Coach?

I would def like to see a real focus on passing. Joe did bring on the team leaps and bounds during his time but to bridge the gap with the ABs we need to have players who can comfortably throw a skip pass. I mentioned it on another thread but shovelling the ball to the guy next to you just won't cut it. Defences can get set easily. means our Wings always have 1 or 2 men to beat by the time the ball reaches them.