Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

The Lost Sheep

Dog Botherer wrote: »

lads clearly we’re lacking experience. get Donnacha Ryan back from France, stick him in the row with Toner, and sit that young pup JR back on the bench til he learns how to run a lineout. Stockdale needs to be dropped permanently, bring a solid lad like Earls or Dave Kearney into the back three, problem sorted.

Nobody is saying that at all.

Rugbymad2020 wrote: »

Fact is there is atleast 8 players that shouldn’t be anywhere near that Irish team due to age.u have 3 years to next World Cup.sacrifice now for the greater good.

Who are the 8?

Dog Botherer

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Nobody is saying that at all.

I am. Spine of the team is lacking. it’s shambolic.

Justaburner

Dog Botherer wrote: »

I am. Spine of the team is lacking. it’s shambolic.

Not sure if serious.

Dog Botherer

Justaburner wrote: »

Not sure if serious.

I am shirley, and don’t call me serious.

Podge_irl

Picking a team now based on who you prognosticate will be around for the next world cup is utter madness. You focus on building a winning team and a winning culture and start worrying about the world cup 6 months out. Only when there are marginal selection decisions should it remotely come into play.

Justaburner

Podge_irl wrote: »

Picking a team now based on who you prognosticate will be around for the next world cup is utter madness. You focus on building a winning team and a winning culture and start worrying about the world cup 6 months out. Only when there are marginal selection decisions should it remotely come into play.

Worked for the Saffas alright

sydthebeat

Podge_irl wrote: »

Picking a team now based on who you prognosticate will be around for the next world cup is utter madness. You focus on building a winning team and a winning culture and start worrying about the world cup 6 months out. Only when there are marginal selection decisions should it remotely come into play.

agreed, but push that 6 months out to about 14 months

aloooof

sydthebeat wrote: »

agreed, but push that 6 months out to about 14 months

Agreed. Just look at what Rassie achieved in the ~18 months leading up to the RWC.

UAEguy2020

Podge_irl wrote: »

Picking a team now based on who you prognosticate will be around for the next world cup is utter madness. You focus on building a winning team and a winning culture and start worrying about the world cup 6 months out. Only when there are marginal selection decisions should it remotely come into play.

Exactly. There is no point in bringing young players into a team that’s rudderless, what needs to happen is we create a winning culture and then gradually bring in youngsters, it’s what we did brilliantly in 2017/2018 before dropping the ball conoletly in 2019.

UAEguy2020

Justaburner wrote: »

Worked for the Saffas alright

Itdidn’t work for South Africa, they won the RWC inspite of this not because of it.

Going back to square one and building a winning culture is what led to them winning the RWC.

clsmooth

CMcsporty wrote: »

Nice montage of the good kicks from France and Irelands halfbacks.
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1323571432476037125?s=20

On the last point about Murray and Sexton.
At least it was good to see clear, well-run shapes that reduced the decision making load on Murray & Sexton.
e.g. that opening min of the 2nd half.

What i still find the most puzzling is that the execution from Sexton and Murray is so bad....does the system suit them?
If we are trying to play a game our playmakers cant deliver on should we persist with both the players and the system or a simpler version?

I think both will get trotted out again for the England game.
But I would say the coaches must be thinking about some simpler modifications to the attacking shape.

That Ntamack chip was a thing of beauty. Interestingly he was slightly ahead of Fickou when he chipped ahead for Dupont to gather before receiving the pass for his try in 43rd minute. Should that have been called back?

ionadnapokot

CMcsporty wrote: »

Nice montage of the good kicks from France and Irelands halfbacks.
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1323571432476037125?s=20

On the last point about Murray and Sexton.
At least it was good to see clear, well-run shapes that reduced the decision making load on Murray & Sexton.
e.g. that opening min of the 2nd half.

What i still find the most puzzling is that the execution from Sexton and Murray is so bad....does the system suit them?
If we are trying to play a game our playmakers cant deliver on should we persist with both the players and the system or a simpler version?

I think both will get trotted out again for the England game.
But I would say the coaches must be thinking about some simpler modifications to the attacking shape.

That would be an ecumenical matter!

Kicking though. More attacking kicking is the way to go for this side.

Brilliant
9th min. 3 Phases after another solid scrum just outside the 22 Sexton puts a lovely grubber kick into the 22 for Keenan.
Delighted to see this evolvement.

Brutal
30th min 14v10. 6 Phases after yet another solid scrum just outside the 22 Ireland are awarded a penalty advantage.
Sexton kicks it away (Again!!).
Whats worse is that Ireland are in the 22 and after the 7th phase he immediately decides to kick a garryowen down the blinside wing. It's a poor kick and goes directly into touch.

I've watched this a few times to figure out why he called it so early.
1. We are down to 14 men. 8:23 before Doris returns
2. Penalty is in front of the post
3. 14-10
4. He scans to the left and sees France have the numbers on the openside.

He ultimately made the right decision and kicks the 3 points in a tight game.
What i find frustrating is that he didn't even try to attack the blindside.
Ireland had Henshaw, Aki and Conway v 2 French defenders and would have been allowed at least another 2 phases of pen advantage.

And then doesn't take the 3 points on offer at HT with the score 17v13?

Anyway. Keeping it simple and use more attacking kicks into the 22 would help Ireland instead of relying on these halfbacks to get the ball wide. Not capable of executing and exposing what's in front of them in phase play.

CMcsporty

clsmooth wrote: »

That Ntamack chip was a thing of beauty. Interestingly he was slightly ahead of Fickou when he chipped ahead for Dupont to gather before receiving the pass for his try in 43rd minute. Should that have been called back?

It’s Fickou who kicks ahead on the 43rd min... Ntamack and DuPont I think are level with Fickou.
Even if Ntmack was slightly ahead Dupont would have brought him onside.

Some more on the kicking in to or in the 22.
Ireland have conceded allot of tries from these kicks.
Can’t recall them scoring any. Keenan was close!

https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1323922809781891076?s=21

ionadnapokot

aloooof wrote: »

Agreed. Just look at what Rassie achieved in the ~18 months leading up to the RWC.

I dont think England or SA should be used as a RWC model to follow for Ireland.
They have a large pool of good players to pick from.

When we hammered SA in Nov '17 three years later they were able to bring in 8 quality players into their XV
And another 4 onto the bench.

Allot of them had already been capped.
Ireland could only dream of having a few of these players right now.

XV v Eng RWC that didnt play v Ireland '17
Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Makazole Mapimpi, Handre Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Frans Malherbe, Duane Vermeulen.

Bench
Vincent Koch, RG Snyman, Herschel Jantjies & Frans Steyn

OneLungDavy

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I dont think England or SA should be used as a RWC model to follow for Ireland.
They have a large pool of good players to pick from.

Exactly. We should keep following the Irish model that has served us so well.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1324290652977483776?s=19

UAEguy2020

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I dont think England or SA should be used as a RWC model to follow for Ireland.
They have a large pool of good players to pick from.

When we hammered SA in Nov '17 three years later they were able to bring in 8 quality players into their XV
And another 4 onto the bench.

Allot of them had already been capped.
Ireland could only dream of having a few of these players right now.

XV v Eng RWC that didnt play v Ireland '17
Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Makazole Mapimpi, Handre Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Frans Malherbe, Duane Vermeulen.

Bench
Vincent Koch, RG Snyman, Herschel Jantjies & Frans Steyn

They are very easy models to follow, what they had come the World Cup was 25 players who they could totally rely on.

To be fair, most of those players should already have been picked for SA but weren’t because Alistair Coetzee was such a hopeless coach.

bilston

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1324290652977483776?s=19

That's quite a disappointing squad for what should be a development tournament.

Still good to see Daly and Burns in there...they both deserve it. And obviously we will get to see James Lowe in an Ireland jersey.

thomond2006

Backs (16)

Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 83 caps
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 2 caps
Kieran Marmion (Connacht/Corinthians) 27 caps

Billy Burns (Ulster) uncapped
Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 8 caps
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 93 caps CAPTAIN

Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 28 caps
Chris Farrell (Munster/Young Munster) 10 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 45 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 3 caps

Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 23 caps
Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Con) uncapped
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 84 caps
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
James Lowe (Leinster) uncapped
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 30 caps

Forwards (18)

Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers) 3 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 13 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 3 caps

Ed Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 100 caps

Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 11 caps
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
John Ryan (Munster/Cork Constitution) 21 caps

Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 15 caps
Ultan Dillane (Connacht/Corinthians) 17 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 55 caps
Quinn Roux (Connacht/Galwegians) 12 caps
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps

Will Connors (Leinster/UCD) 2 caps
Caelan Doris (Leinster/UCD) 4 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 69 caps
CJ Stander (Munster/Shannon) 43 caps
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 26 caps

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2020/11/05/ireland-squad-start-prep-for-guinness-series-games/

arsebiscuits1

Essentially the 6N squad with Lowe and Burns added.

No one been called up to replace Ringrose - it would be good to see a young center called up for experience.

Having said that a lot of the younger centres would benefit more from provincial game time this weekend!

I assume (hope) Baird will be called up if he shakes off the injury in the coming weeks.

Generally when Leinster say "stepping up their rehab" it means a few weeks away yet though

Burkie1203

bilston wrote: »

That's quite a disappointing squad for what should be a development tournament.

Still good to see Daly and Burns in there...they both deserve it. And obviously we will get to see James Lowe in an Ireland jersey.

Who should be included?

Clegg

Conan picking up an injury is disappointing too. He's been in good form whenever he gets a run of game, but he picks up knocks at the most inopportune times. First the World Cup and now this tournament.

yerrahbah

Disappointed not to see Casey there.

But happy he'll be available for Munster

kingofthekong

I think it’s pretty clear with current personnel and England and France clearly building some serious squad depth we’re gonna need more youth involved to compete. France are developing some serious players as are England I really hope Farrell starts to filter in guys like Casey, HByrne, Sheehan etc they really could’ve been given a run out against a nothing Georgia team

Paul Smeenus

kingofthekong wrote: »

I think it’s pretty clear with current personnel and England and France clearly building some serious squad depth we’re gonna need more youth involved to compete. France are developing some serious players as are England I really hope Farrell starts to filter in guys like Casey, HByrne, Sheehan etc they really could’ve been given a run out against a nothing Georgia team

Yes. Sheehan's two Leinster caps leave no doubt that he's ready for an international call-up.

Be good to have Baird and Larmour and Ringrose back available.

Healy
Kelleher
Porter
Baird
Ryan
Doris
Connors
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Lowe
Larmour

That's a pretty dynamic team all fit.

Paul Smeenus

Deleted User wrote: »

Be good to have Baird and Larmour and Ringrose back available.

Healy
Kelleher
Porter
Baird
Ryan
Doris
Connors
Stander
Murray
Sexton
Stockdale
Aki
Ringrose
Lowe
Larmour

That's a pretty dynamic team all fit.

Very dynamic. Would be very worried about the lineout and the maul, both of which were poor against France. Swapping in less experienced players to fix it is an interesting approach.

Clegg

Let's not forget about about Ronan Kelleher. He's a brilliant prospect and was already capped for Ireland after less than 10 senior appearances for Leinster.

Paul Smeenus

Clegg wrote: »

Let's not forget about about Ronan Kelleher. He's a brilliant prospect and was already capped for

He's in the squad.

Clegg

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

He's in the squad.

It's a reply to the above conversation on Sheehan. No need to be disappointed at the lack of inclusion of a young hooker in the squad. We already have one.