Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Paul Smeenus

Clegg wrote: »

It's a reply to the above conversation on Sheehan. No need to be disappointed at the lack of inclusion of a young hooker in the squad. We already have one.

Ah, yeah. Fair enough. Need him to usurp Herring.

Paul Smeenus

Clegg wrote: »

It's a reply to the above conversation on Sheehan. No need to be disappointed at the lack of inclusion of a young hooker in the squad. We already have one.

To be clear, I agree that it's a frustratingly conservative selection for what is a great opportunity to develop players. Just think the suggestions are getting a bit OTT.

Burkie1203

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

To be clear, I agree that it's a frustratingly conservative selection for what is a great opportunity to develop players. Just think the suggestions are getting a bit OTT.

Conservative how?

Name the ins and outs you would have?

bilston

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Who should be included?

Craig Casey, Harry Byrne and James Hume.

Remember we play Georgia and probably Scotland or Italy in these games.

thomond2006

They'll call up players for the Georgia game. This squad isn't set in stone.

aloooof

bilston wrote: »

Casey and H.Byrne...potentially would have had a look at Hume.

Remember we play Georgia and probably Scotland or Italy in these games.

They could still be called in for those games tho, right? It's not like the RWC where you have to submit a squad?

Squidgy Black

If Baird wasn't injured I'd imagine he would've made it in, similarly Balacoune would've been in with a shout. Other than that, maybe the likes of Eric O'Sullivan or Tom O'Toole/Jack Aungier in the wider squad, just because of the current situation we have in the front row.

Don't get me wrong it's a decent squad with the likes of Kelleher, Keenan, Daly, Connors and Doris involved, and then of course Heffernan, JGP and Lowe.

bilston

aloooof wrote: »

They could still be called in for those games tho, right? It's not like the RWC where you have to submit a squad?

Maybe, the title is squad for Autumn Nations Cup.

But I guess it makes sense to keep players at their provinces as I'm assuming you can't easily release players from camp due to bubbling, so that might explain it. No point bringing in players now that aren't likely to feature for 3 weeks when they can play for their provinces...so I've maybe jumped the gun a bit.

Paul Smeenus

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Conservative how?

Name the ins and outs you would have?

Off the top of my head

Eric O'Sullivan - IN
Stuart McCloskey - OUT (if his job is to hold tacklebags or train or start against Georgia, I'd rather Hume got a call-up to the squad to test the waters. I'm sure Leinster fans feel one of their random young centres has earned a call-up)
Quinn Roux - OUT. Thornbury in probably.

Craig Casey is probably better off getting gametime at Munster.

Surely there is a better roll of the dice than John Ryan? Presumably it would be O'Toole if he weren't injured.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Maybe, the title is squad for Autumn Nations Cup.

But I guess it makes sense to keep players at their provinces as I'm assuming you can't easily release players from camp due to bubbling, so that might explain it. No point bringing in players now that aren't likely to feature for 3 weeks when they can play for their provinces...so I've maybe jumped the gun a bit.

Actually, maybe this is a factor. With Marshall back and getting back up to speed, it would be good to see Hume get a crack, but maybe the logistics, given Covid, are part of the decision. Maybe.

ionadnapokot

yerrahbah wrote: »

Disappointed not to see Casey there.

But happy he'll be available for Munster

Badly missed opportunity short & medium term.

Squad is crying out for the type of energy he brings.
Its a feckin "fizzy cup" tournament
& Cant believe Carty isn't in there.

UAEguy2020

kingofthekong wrote: »

I think it’s pretty clear with current personnel and England and France clearly building some serious squad depth we’re gonna need more youth involved to compete. France are developing some serious players as are England I really hope Farrell starts to filter in guys like Casey, HByrne, Sheehan etc they really could’ve been given a run out against a nothing Georgia team

I’d imagine they will call up some young players from the provinces for that match, there is literally nothing to be gained playing the same squad for that match.

Baird,Casey,H.Byrne off the top of my head, maybe some more depending on how they are getting on.

Burkie1203

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Off the top of my head

Eric O'Sullivan - IN
Stuart McCloskey - OUT (if his job is to hold tacklebags or train or start against Georgia, I'd rather Hume got a call-up to the squad to test the waters. I'm sure Leinster fans feel one of their random young centres has earned a call-up)
Quinn Roux - OUT. Thornbury in probably.

Craig Casey is probably better off getting gametime at Munster.

Surely there is a better roll of the dice than John Ryan? Presumably it would be O'Toole if he weren't injured.

So a couple of changes would make it not a conservative selection?

Casey will get his shot in 2021.

Roux/Thornbury are not going to get selected ahead of Ryan, Henderson, Beirne and maybe Baird if he gets capped in 2021, if they are all fit so it's not really an issue for me.

Paul Smeenus

Burkie1203 wrote: »

So a couple of changes would make it not a conservative selection?

Casey will get his shot in 2021.

Roux/Thornbury are not going to get selected ahead of Ryan, Henderson, Beirne and maybe Baird if he gets capped in 2021, if they are all fit so it's not really an issue for me.

No, that was a few off my head. That would make it "less" conservative. If Roux or Thornbury are not going to get selected of those others, why don't we go for Thornbury?


If you want "not conservative", tell Healy, Murray, POM, Herring, Aki, Earls we'll see them come the Six Nations. Would add Sexton to that list but he's captain.

sydthebeat

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Conservative how?

Name the ins and outs you would have?

its incredibly conservative

kingofthekong

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Yes. Sheehan's two Leinster caps leave no doubt that he's ready for an international call-up.

Against Georgia....even Ulster in the pro14 might be a tougher challenge then Georgia...lol

kingofthekong

If they call up some fringe players for the georgia game I'll be happy if the plan is to give them more gametime for the provinces and then a call up for georgia then happy days

Paul Smeenus

kingofthekong wrote: »

If they call up some fringe players for the georgia game I'll be happy if the plan is to give them more gametime for the provinces and then a call up for georgia then happy days

Agreed on that - though as Bilston points out - swapping players in and out might not be straighforward.

Dubinusa

bilston wrote: »

That's quite a disappointing squad for what should be a development tournament.

Still good to see Daly and Burns in there...they both deserve it. And obviously we will get to see James Lowe in an Ireland jersey.

Agreed! Great time to bring in more young lads.

Dubinusa

Farrell needs to give RB the 1st crack at oh. We won't know how he's going to be if he only gets 10 or so minutes at the end of a test match! Start Sexton on the bench? Wales are struggling atm and I think it's a great opportunity to start at least 1 sub 9 or 10.
He wouldn't have the liathroids to start subs at both half back positions? Would he?

Niallof9

this is absolute dire stuff. if he took a little bit of a chance, people would give him some leeway. this will end in tears as he and some of the older lads drag the arse out of it. a nothing tournament ripe for some risk taking.

Clegg

Other than Rhys Ruddock and John Cooney there's no notable omission from the squad really. For the moment I think Cqasey and H Byrne are better off with their provinces where they're guaranteed to start.

And on Ruddock I really don't know what he has to do to get a call up. He's in fantastic form. But he's been passed over by Schmidt before and now by Andy Farrell. There's obviously something they don't like about his game, but for the life of me I don't see it.

shootermacg

Dubinusa wrote: »

Agreed! Great time to bring in more young lads.

I think the bare minimum for an international cap should be that you are a starter for your Province. There's a lot to be said for at least 2 seasons starting at club level before progressing to International.

Rugby is a game of dark arts and well hidden cheap shots, and at international level you have the best practitioners. Let the young guys deal with that type of bastardry at club level before progressing if they're good enough.

Some of the younger players show weaknesses in their game once they play international, this does nobody any good. Just look how it currently affects the team, we are poor in the backfield and in our lineout.

Throwing young guy at the problem isn't going to make it go away, it's going to make it worse.

Niallof9

sure, whatever lads convince yourselves of that. check out some of the other squads.

we've been here before

its a perfect opportunity to take a chance on some of the lads. any number of Ulster players, Casey, a good chunk of leinster players.

Instead as many predicted we'll see the usuals. and in about 12 months we will be in a real spot of bother. its like a never ending ****ing circle of this. we did it with players in the EOS time, under Kidney, under Joe, we did it with Best and we're at it again.

Irish rugby is incredibly conservative. Most of the openings come from injuries and whatnot. and then we swing wildly the other way when some talent is shown giving them central contracts etc leading to these guys never getting dropped.

Burkie1203

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

No, that was a few off my head. That would make it "less" conservative. If Roux or Thornbury are not going to get selected of those others, why don't we go for Thornbury?


If you want "not conservative", tell Healy, Murray, POM, Herring, Aki, Earls we'll see them come the Six Nations. Would add Sexton to that list but he's captain.

7 players out of a what, ~35 man squad makes it conservative?


Daly Keenan Connors Doris Lowe JGP are all new to the squad effectively.

Kelleher Baird both injured but likely would be there


Farrell named several players for development purposes in Spring pre-covid and has continued to bring in young players. And pick them. For 6n games which had a trophy hanging on the results.

UAEguy2020

Dubinusa wrote: »

Farrell needs to give RB the 1st crack at oh. We won't know how he's going to be if he only gets 10 or so minutes at the end of a test match! Start Sexton on the bench? Wales are struggling atm and I think it's a great opportunity to start at least 1 sub 9 or 10.
He wouldn't have the liathroids to start subs at both half back positions? Would he?

Exactly

Whatever people think of RB as a player he definitely won’t be out of his depth at this level, it’s just a question of weather he can make a difference or not. After what happened with Marmion/Murray in the England game in 2017 I’m open minded on most players.

Buer

For context, this is the team we selected for the last visit of Georgia to Dublin. We beat them by 40+. Two debutants (Ryan and Foley), a handful of guys with single digit cap totals, a handful of wider squad players and 2-3 experienced old heads to pull it together. I would want much the same this time.

Felix Jones
Craig Gilroy
Darren Cave
Gordon D'Arcy
Simon Zebo
Ian Madigan
Eoin Reddan (c)
Dave Kilcoyne
Richardt Strauss
Mike Ross
Dave Foley
Mike McCarthy
Dominic Ryan
Tommy O'Donnell
Robbie Diack

Niallof9

lads its a shocking squad lets be completely honest with ourselves. Like Keith Earls has been magnificent etc a legend etc, but it sends out an awful signal to bring back a 33 year old for something like this. let him play with Munster, have him get his swansong come next six nations. i don;t think any other nation would do it. its the perfect opportunity to take massive risk and build numbers. you're only lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

and the main issue is we know exactly how this will go. the exact team bar maybe Lowe will line out. Like just cause Connors got a few starts did well against Italy shouldn't see him set in stone now going forward. Irish rugby is absolutely infuriating really.

bilston

shootermacg wrote: »

I think the bare minimum for an international cap should be that you are a starter for your Province. There's a lot to be said for at least 2 seasons starting at club level before progressing to International.

Rugby is a game of dark arts and well hidden cheap shots, and at international level you have the best practitioners. Let the young guys deal with that type of bastardry at club level before progressing if they're good enough.

Some of the younger players show weaknesses in their game once they play international, this does nobody any good. Just look how it currently affects the team, we are poor in the backfield and in our lineout.

Throwing young guy at the problem isn't going to make it go away, it's going to make it worse.

If you need to be a starter for your province to make the Ireland squad then we finally have a reason as to why Leinster win so much...they must field 17 or 18 players every time they take to the pitch!

thomond2006

There's plenty inexperience in that squad. I'd wait for the 23 before unleashing OUTRAGE.