Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

AbusesToilets

clsmooth wrote: »

I think he just lacks the required pace/dynamism at the top level. I have a lot of time for him and think he should have started during the WC when it was obvious the back row balance was out of kilter. The type of player you want on a heavy pitch against a big set of forwards. Not sure he’s the man for a faster gameplan which we seem to be trying to move towards.

You could be right. I've never thought he was particularly lacking relative to his peers. He's good with the ball, can pass and make a break. Prior to the WC, I figured maybe he was told he wasn't making enough of an impact, but when you compare it to other players, it seems odd.

dor843088

Dog Botherer wrote: »

absolutely right. we should be raiding juvie centres and fast tracking the most mischievous miscreants we can find into the academies.

What a childish comment.

Dog Botherer

dor843088 wrote: »

What a childish comment.

no u

Dubinusa

I too agree that the central contracts are detrimental for Ireland. Ringfencing a select few is like tieing yourself to the guillotine . Its likely that several players could move elsewhere for more money, but so what. Irish players for the most part are unlikely to move province, let alone another country.
It's also crazy to think that lads like Conway make so little as compared to Stockdale? I reckon Conway is easily our best wing and has been for a couple of years.
I believe that Furlong is on a cc! But, Porter isn't? Although Furlong is a better th, the gap between him and Porter is small imo. Imagine if VDF was on a central contract and not even making the 23. Personally, I think VDF is our best 7, but Connors is definitely up to the task. What happens if Leavy comes back at 100%? Who gets a cc? Who leaves Leinster? There's no way that 3 international quality opens ides can stay happy at the same province! Then there's Penny!
What about Deegan? Conan and Doris? Which lad is going to be in the international set up? Stander is 30 and playing well , but he's on the backend of his career. It's unlikely Stander is starting in 3 years time. So who would the union give a central contract to?
I think a provincial contract with an international pay stipend would work . I.e if Deegan was on a provincial contract and plays 5 times for Ireland in a year, pay him an international wage. Say 25 thousand per international appearance.

kingofthekong

dor843088 wrote: »

If you were in the Ireland dressing room facing England South Africa France . Who would you want to be in the trenches with ? A bunch of clean shaven nice guys ? Unless we look beyond the privileged class we will always be bullied.

Lol James Ryan is from a private school, and is easily one of the most aggressive relentless players ireland has ever produced....shouldnt have even given this comment any air at all but here we are

shootermacg

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's unlikely Stander is starting in 3 years time.

If you follow CJ's trajectory, he'll definitely be playing in the next world cup and captaining the team.

Dog Botherer

shootermacg wrote: »

If you follow CJ's trajectory, he'll definitely be playing in the next world cup and captaining the team.

Not impossible that he could be surpassed in the starting team in the next few years but he’s an ideal bench player. plays 6/7/8, can even cover the row in a pinch, big carrier, and can captain.

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

I too agree that the central contracts are detrimental for Ireland. Ringfencing a select few is like tieing yourself to the guillotine . Its likely that several players could move elsewhere for more money, but so what. Irish players for the most part are unlikely to move province, let alone another country.
It's also crazy to think that lads like Conway make so little as compared to Stockdale? I reckon Conway is easily our best wing and has been for a couple of years.
I believe that Furlong is on a cc! But, Porter isn't? Although Furlong is a better th, the gap between him and Porter is small imo. Imagine if VDF was on a central contract and not even making the 23. Personally, I think VDF is our best 7, but Connors is definitely up to the task. What happens if Leavy comes back at 100%? Who gets a cc? Who leaves Leinster? There's no way that 3 international quality opens ides can stay happy at the same province! Then there's Penny!
What about Deegan? Conan and Doris? Which lad is going to be in the international set up? Stander is 30 and playing well , but he's on the backend of his career. It's unlikely Stander is starting in 3 years time. So who would the union give a central contract to?
I think a provincial contract with an international pay stipend would work . I.e if Deegan was on a provincial contract and plays 5 times for Ireland in a year, pay him an international wage. Say 25 thousand per international appearance.

Is there a substantial difference between cc and provincial contracts?

shootermacg

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Not impossible that he could be surpassed in the starting team in the next few years but he’s an ideal bench player. plays 6/7/8, can even cover the row in a pinch, big carrier, and can captain.

I don't see anyone near his standard currently, if anything the distance between him and the other Irish options is growing. He's shown that he's got a good passing game, he's a turnover merchant and probably our best carrier too. He's constantly near the top of the tackle charts and there is no letup over the full 80 minutes. The guy almost never gets subbed (I can't remember any games where he was subbed).

TomsOnTheRoof

shootermacg wrote: »

I don't see anyone near his standard currently, if anything the distance between him and the other Irish options is growing. He's shown that he's got a good passing game, he's a turnover merchant and probably our best carrier too. He's constantly near the top of the tackle charts and there is no letup over the full 80 minutes. The guy almost never gets subbed (I can't remember any games where he was subbed).

Within the squad, over the course of the tournament, CJ is first for carries and turnovers won. Second in tackles and tackles broken and third in metres gained. He also has the fourth most passes made. Some going.

Dog Botherer

shootermacg wrote: »

I don't see anyone near his standard currently, if anything the distance between him and the other Irish options is growing. He's shown that he's got a good passing game, he's a turnover merchant and probably our best carrier too. He's constantly near the top of the tackle charts and there is no letup over the full 80 minutes. The guy almost never gets subbed (I can't remember any games where he was subbed).

Yeah he’s undeniably one of our best players. I just think no one saw Doris and Connors starting together in a 6N Championship decider, even a year ago. 3 years is a long time and Ireland have some brilliant back row talents coming through.

shootermacg

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Within the squad, over the course of the tournament, CJ is first for carries and turnovers won. Second in tackles and tackles broken and third in metres gained. He also has the fourth most passes made. Some going.

I would also like to add that his injury free run is probably because of the adamantium coating on his bones.

aloooof

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Within the squad, over the course of the tournament, CJ is first for carries and turnovers won. Second in tackles and tackles broken and third in metres gained. He also has the fourth most passes made. Some going.

I think there's a case that he's been our most consistent performer over the last 4-5 years or so?

TomsOnTheRoof

shootermacg wrote: »

I would also like to add that his injury free run is probably because of the adamantium coating on his bones.

Ah he's just incredible. Like the fella is still underrated. People always talk about Ringrose and Ryan being our only two genuinely world class players but for me CJ is top of the pile. He does everything, as the stats above allude to, and he's tremendously consistent.

TomsOnTheRoof

aloooof wrote: »

I think there's a case that he's been our most consistent performer over the last 4-5 years or so?

Without a doubt. Third time in 5 years that he's been nominated for player of the tournament and I'd wager a good Autumn series may see him nominated for player of the year.

shootermacg

kingofthekong

3 years is a long time, its hard to say

Unbelievable engine on the man, if were looking at if he can hold his place you have to look at all the backrow options that may be available by then, even guys who currently arent in the picture that could have a doris like projection

At Munster he'll have stiff competition from O'Sullivan, Hodnett and Kendellen

At Leinster he'll have competition from: Penny, Conan, Doris, Leavy, O'brien, Connors, Deegan and potentially these guys who will all be 23/24 so older than Doris is now : Soroka, Deeny and Baird if theyre positioned as 6's

In Ulster Mcann will 23 years odd thats older than Doris is now

In Connacht and its a fairly slim shot but if Sean O'brien can get an injury free run he could ruffle some spots but his injury history isnt promising

shootermacg

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Without a doubt. Third time in 5 years that he's been nominated for player of the tournament and I'd wager a good Autumn series may see him nominated for player of the year.

And now that Handsome Rob is off down under, he's probably the best looking man in Irish rugby

TomsOnTheRoof

shootermacg wrote: »

And now that Handsome Rob is off down under, he's probably the best looking man in Irish rugby

The bastard has everything going for him.

dor843088

kingofthekong wrote: »

Lol James Ryan is from a private school, and is easily one of the most aggressive relentless players ireland has ever produced....shouldnt have even given this comment any air at all but here we are

If james ryan is the most aggressive player ireland ever produced doesnt that prove my point entirely . Compared to the itoje , bakkies botha of this world theres no comparison whatsoever. He doesnt beat defenders he hardly makes any meters. 3 penalties conceded no yellow cards no red cards. Hardly seems like the stats of the most aggressive irish player ever. Quite the opposite in fact.

kingofthekong

dor843088 wrote: »

If james ryan is the most aggressive player ireland ever produced doesnt that prove my point entirely . Compared to the itoje , bakkies botha of this world theres no comparison whatsoever. He doesnt beat defenders he hardly makes any meters. 3 penalties conceded no yellow cards no red cards. Hardly seems like the stats of the most aggressive irish player ever. Quite the opposite in fact.

cool man

salmocab

Just to be clear is someone suggesting that you can only be tough if you’re working class?

kingofthekong

salmocab wrote: »

Just to be clear is someone suggesting that you can only be tough if you’re working class?

yup

salmocab

kingofthekong wrote: »

yup

Good jebus

Neil3030

Can't imagine there's too many white South African "hard men" who didn't go to an exclusive private school?

Some Yoke

Neil3030 wrote: »

Can't imagine there's too many white South African "hard men" who didn't go to an exclusive private school?

Saffers more likely to be from a farming tradition than an accounting tradion maybe?!! Don't know

dor843088

salmocab wrote: »

Just to be clear is someone suggesting that you can only be tough if you’re working class?

Yea it's a bit like saying you can only be a talented rugby player if you go to a private school. So let's put 99% of our focus , resources and coaching there. I'm not saying you cant be tough if your not working class ,there are outliers of course. I understand the makeup of the posters on this forum would find it a harsh truth.

salmocab

dor843088 wrote: »

Yea it's a bit like saying you can only be a talented rugby player if you go to a private school. So let's put 99% of our focus , resources and coaching there. I'm not saying you cant be tough if your not working class ,there are outliers of course. I understand the makeup of the posters on this forum would find it a harsh truth.

But nobody claimed you can only be a talented rugby player if you went to a private school because that would be a stupid thing to say. I’d say you’d also be surprised at how few of the posters here went to private school.

Squidgy Black

Maro Itoje went to St George's, a boarding school, and then went to Harrow, the 4th most expensive private school in the UK.

thomond2006

dor843088 wrote: »

If you were in the Ireland dressing room facing England South Africa France . Who would you want to be in the trenches with ? A bunch of clean shaven nice guys ? Unless we look beyond the privileged class we will always be bullied.

Nobody wants the unwashed playing for Ireland. One must have standards.