Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

jacothelad

penybont exile wrote: »

Sorry but that is bordering on nonsense ..... if Ireland had beaten Japan they'd have played SA ...... if Wales had lost to Oz they'd have played England ..... you reap what you sow ....

Perhaps I should have made it simpler for you. Ireland got hosed by playing like drains against the team that will win the RWC. Wales were getting beaten comfortably by a crap France team and lucked out by the vicious actions of a cretin. The point I was making was that blind luck has a huge part to play in the RWC. The draw you get. The actions of a ref. Without Sebastien Vahaamahin's thuggery Wales would be out also. In the last RWC Scotland lost out because of the decision of a ref, France were robbed of a World Cup win by the cowardly actions of the same ref.

whatawaster

Utah_Saint wrote: »

who is Irelands current and future Skills Coach?

I would def like to see a real focus on passing. Joe did bring on the team leaps and bounds during his time but to bridge the gap with the ABs we need to have players who can comfortably throw a skip pass. I mentioned it on another thread but shovelling the ball to the guy next to you just won't cut it. Defences can get set easily. means our Wings always have 1 or 2 men to beat by the time the ball reaches them.

Surely that stuff needs to be honed at Schoolboy and then Provincial level.

In fairness, all of the provinces have shown they are capable of playing passing and running rugby in a way that Ireland have not done in the last few years. And the players coming through the academies are very capable in terms of passing and offloading. The skills are there.

Burkie1203

Standers wife whinging about the media criticism of how crap the team performed.

blinding

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Standers wife whinging about the media criticism of how crap the team performed.

Suck it up and man up . For folks ( auto correct ) sake .

Danthemanhere

jacothelad wrote: »

Perhaps I should have made it simpler for you. Ireland got hosed by playing like drains against the team that will win the RWC. Wales were getting beaten comfortably by a crap France team and lucked out by the vicious actions of a cretin. The point I was making was that blind luck has a huge part to play in the RWC. The draw you get. The actions of a ref. Without Sebastien Vahaamahin's thuggery Wales would be out also. In the last RWC Scotland lost out because of the decision of a ref, France were robbed of a World Cup win by the cowardly actions of the same ref.

Losing to Japan had an effect.

Utah_Saint

whatawaster wrote: »

Surely that stuff needs to be honed at Schoolboy and then Provincial level.

In fairness, all of the provinces have shown they are capable of playing passing and running rugby in a way that Ireland have not done in the last few years. And the players coming through the academies are very capable in terms of passing and offloading. The skills are there.

Yes - I agree. We see the provinces dominate the Pro14 and do very well in Europe. The teams play some great stuff. Obviously i am not comparing Ulster vs Zebra to Ireland vs All Blacks but we do have the players. I think at Test level the players believe so much is at stake they are petrified to make a mistake. The role of the International Coach should be to 'enable' the players. Build their confidence to go out there and express themselves.

Danthemanhere

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Standers wife whinging about the media criticism of how crap the team performed.

It's not just Standars wife, even on here you see people crying about anyone criticising the team.

DellyBelly

Well an end of an era and hopefully the start of a new one for the Irish Rugby team. I think Joe's time will be fondly remebered however the last 12 months will certainly taint his legacy. JoeBall got us so far but when it was found out he was unable to go to a plan B which cost us severly. Be interesting to see if Farrell continues with the JoeBall philosophy or will he try and bring his own style of play that is quite different. I really hope that is the case.

I think a number of players may not be seen in an Irish shirt again after this World Cup; of course Best but perhaps the last time we see Cronin, Sexton, Cian Healy or Rob Kearney. Interesting times ahead.

whatawaster

It will be interesting to see what Mike Catt brings to our backline.

Italy aren't a good team, but they can be dangerous in attack and play some expansive stuff at times.

Niallof9

Jesus Stander needs to have a word. This criticism is justified.

Mike catt has been coaching at a level below so he has to hit the ground running. I mean the absence of any back play for 18 months means he is on a winner if he tries anything!

Danthemanhere

The thing is, our backline would be suited to a more expansive game plan. Aki and Ringrose we know, Earls and Stockdale for sure and Larmour is made for it. I think our half backs would need changing though. Marmion and Carbery would suit the freer style. Then players like McCluskey would come into the reckoning, plenty of wing options. We might need some changes in the back row. None of Standar, O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Ruddock seem suited to that game but who knows, they could take to it. Exciting times but only if the shackles are taken off, confine Joeball to the dustbin.

Niallof9

Danthemanhere wrote: »

The thing is, our backline would be suited to a more expansive game plan. Aki and Ringrose we know, Earls and Stockdale for sure and Larmour is made for it. I think our half backs would need changing though. Marmion and Carbery would suit the freer style. Then players like McCluskey would come into the reckoning, plenty of wing options. We might need some changes in the back row. None of Standar, O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Ruddock seem suited to that game but who knows, they could take to it. Exciting times but only if the shackles are taken off, confine Joeball to the dustbin.

You can't use that word on here tut tut....you need to write the full gameplan out

washman3

shootermacg wrote: »

Nice piece in the indo: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/billy-keane-sexton-is-heartbroken-last-night-he-sent-the-message-gutted-tried-my-best-38614358.html

Nice piece..???
Its utterly cringeworthy..!!

The Rape of Lucretia

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Standers wife whinging about the media criticism of how crap the team performed.

Maybe regret that CJ backed the wrong horse, and he could have been in a semifinal, about to annihilate Wales?

Wegians89

Danthemanhere wrote: »

The thing is, our backline would be suited to a more expansive game plan. Aki and Ringrose we know, Earls and Stockdale for sure and Larmour is made for it. I think our half backs would need changing though. Marmion and Carbery would suit the freer style. Then players like McCluskey would come into the reckoning, plenty of wing options. We might need some changes in the back row. None of Standar, O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Ruddock seem suited to that game but who knows, they could take to it. Exciting times but only if the shackles are taken off, confine Joeball to the dustbin.

A back line of,
9. Murray
10. carty
11. stockdale
12. Aki
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. carbery

21. Blade
22. Henshaw
23. Earls

would be extremely entertaining.

is_that_so

Wegians89 wrote: »

A back line of,
9. Murray
10. carty
11. stockdale
12. Aki
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. carbery

21. Blade
22. Henshaw
23. Earls

would be extremely entertaining.

I think both Earls and Stockdale need to be dropped. Stockdale needs to work on some fundamental defence skills and a season at Ulster outside the national team would help there. I'd retain Earls and Murray as mentor/bench to give us a chance to explore options. I also reckon the Number 10 slot is open to anyone who wants to try out for it and Sexton should be used sparingly for the time he has left. 2,4,6,7,8 should be wide open to competition too.

lord quackinton

The next captain should be in my opinion James Ryan. I don’t see any other viable options.

Ireland need to change their style and there is no guarantee that the established players are able to change.
I have serious doubts over aki Henshaw Healy earls stockdale and Henderson having the skill set to change.

blinding

Why was Marmion or Cooney not playing for Leinster for the last two years or at least the last year .

is_that_so

lord quackinton wrote: »

The next captain should be in my opinion James Ryan. I don’t see any other viable options.

Ireland need to change their style and there is no guarantee that the established players are able to change.
I have serious doubts over aki Henshaw Healy earls stockdale and Henderson having the skill set to change.

Ryan is probably too young for that just yet but apart from Murray or maybe Stander can't think of another option at present. As for the others I'd agree on Henderson and Stockdale. Henshaw is injury prone and I'm not sure what skills you imagine Healy needs to develop.

Shefwedfan

Wegians89 wrote: »

A back line of,
9. Murray
10. carty
11. stockdale
12. Aki
13. Ringrose
14. Larmour
15. carbery

21. Blade
22. Henshaw
23. Earls

would be extremely entertaining.

Yeah that's what Ireland need now.....a 10 that disappears for majority of the game

whatawaster

is_that_so wrote: »

Ryan is probably too young for that just yet but apart from Murray or maybe Stander can't think of another option at present. As for the others I'd agree on Henderson and Stockdale. Henshaw is injury prone and I'm not sure what skills you imagine Healy needs to develop.

Sam Warburton and Michael Hooper were both made captain at 22. I don't think he's too young. He is extremely experienced at this stage - he has won a HC and a Grand Slam.

ClanofLams

What Ireland needs most is a coach picking on form. Schmidt done an excellent job overall but he fell into that terrible habit of certain players becoming undroppable, Murray should have been dropped for at least one game this year. Sexton on the pitch for 72 mins in Cardiff playing like an absolute drain, etc

Murray Kinsella writes today that the feeling among fringe players in the squad was they would never get past those established no matter what they did, terrible place for a squad to be in.

Burkie1203

whatawaster wrote: »

Sam Warburton and Michael Hooper were both made captain at 22. I don't think he's too young. He is extremely experienced at this stage - he has won a HC and a Grand Slam.

And two Pro14s. And played in a RWC

JJJackal

blinding wrote: »

Why was Marmion or Cooney not playing for Leinster for the last two years or at least the last year .

Marmion is a connacht player
Cooney wasnt starting for connacht enough and moved to ulster

Leinster have McGrath, JGP

Shefwedfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

What Ireland needs most is a coach picking on form. Schmidt done an excellent job overall but he fell into that terrible habit of certain players becoming undroppable, Murray should have been dropped for at least one game this year. Sexton on the pitch for 72 mins in Cardiff playing like an absolute drain, etc

Murray Kinsella writes today that the feeling among fringe players in the squad was they would never get past those established no matter what they did, terrible place for a squad to be in.

Of the squad of 31 the only ones pushing for a start in Qtr was Larmour, Conway and Kilcoyne. Maybe you could include Ruddock or Beirne ofr POM

Both Healy and Kearney had decent World Cup and where in form so Larmour and Kilcoyne can't complain. They did come on of course.


Conway really is the big one for me, he should have taken Stockdales place in match day.


Apart from that who was knocking on door? before you say, Carbery had how many minutes rugby played before the game? not due to Joe but due to injury

AbusesToilets

ClanofLams wrote: »

What Ireland needs most is a coach picking on form. Schmidt done an excellent job overall but he fell into that terrible habit of certain players becoming undroppable, Murray should have been dropped for at least one game this year. Sexton on the pitch for 72 mins in Cardiff playing like an absolute drain, etc

Murray Kinsella writes today that the feeling among fringe players in the squad was they would never get past those established no matter what they did, terrible place for a squad to be in.

2007/11/15 want their quotes back

ClanofLams

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Bar a few core players the rest have all had chances. of the squad of 31 the only ones pushing for a start in Qtr was Larmour, Conway and Kilcoyne.



Both Healy and Kearney had decent World Cup and where in form so Larmour and Kilcoyne can't complain. They did come on of course.


Conway really is the big one for me, he should have taken Stockdales place in match day.


Apart from that who was knocking on door? before you say, Carbery had how many minutes rugby played before the game? not due to Joe but due to injury

The team could with the exception of 12/13 could have been picked four months ago. Every other country have made big calls to go with form. Larmour should have been 15. Conway and Ruddock should have started.

It’s longer than just this World Cup, Sexton was absolutely terrible in Cardiff, he should have been hauled off after 45 minutes. Murray has also frequently played almost full matches when out of form or out on his feet.

Shefwedfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

The team could with the exception of 12/13 could have been picked four months ago. Every other country have made big calls to go with form. Larmour should have been 15. Conway and Ruddock should have started.

It’s longer than just this World Cup, Sexton was absolutely terrible in Cardiff, he should have been hauled off after 45 minutes. Murray has also frequently played almost full matches when out of form or out on his feet.

As I mentioned, who in squad of 31 or even further afield was putting hand up to replace players?



Was Kearney playing bad at 15?

Former Former

Fringe players thinking they should be in the team is hardly a shocking revelation or a damning indictment of Schmidt.

Ask Jack McGrath or Devin Toner how being an absolute stalwart of Joe's teams for five and a half years worked out for them. Ask James Ryan or Andrew Porter if Joe is afraid to give young guys a shot. Ask Kieran Marmion if a pecking order is set in stone. Ask... well, you see where I'm going with this.

The players who deserved to be picked got picked. Those who didn't, not so much. A bad player does not become a good player just because the other guys aren't performing.

Whatever happened in Japan, it wasn't a selection issue.

ClanofLams

AbusesToilets wrote: »

2007/11/15 want their quotes back

I wouldn’t place much blame on Schmidt for ‘15, losing six of your starting fifteen is pretty much always going to f**k up a team, maybe New Zealand would have the depth of quality to overcome but no-one else.

He definitely made mistakes this year though.