Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

aloooof

pickarooney wrote: »

Where is Niyi these days?

Bristol, no?

shootermacg

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s entirely possible that the three most influential players in this Irish team for the next two years will all be foreign born qualified through residency.
Stander
Aki
Lowe


Say whatever you like about it, agree with it or not I don’t care, the soccer is the same but at least these three players have firmly put their roots down here.

I’m fine with it but at the same time I think it devalues international rugby a little.

Personally I think there should be a limit on the number of residency qualified players in a match day 23.

I've heard that opinion from quite a few people and I think you're entitled to feel that way and it's not an incorrect opinion to have. I'd have been partly in that camp.

But the rules are the rules and if everyone else is profiting from those rules, we'd be nuts to pass up players of the quality of our project players.

From a human perspective, these players moved here, got stuck in, worked hard and are a credit to their clubs and country.

AlmightyCushion

salmocab wrote: »

Yeah and it could get greyer. Someone like Adeloukon technically qualified on residency as far as I remember and I doubt many would want to treat him in the same way as the lads who came to just play rugby.

Don't post here often but why should he not be treated the same way. He's been here since he was a kid. If someone doesn't have a problem with Stander, Aki or Lowe being on the team then they shouldn't have a problem with him either.

Edit: Nevermind, got the wrong end of the stick. b.gud clears it up below.

b.gud

salmocab wrote: »

Yeah and it could get greyer. Someone like Adeloukon technically qualified on residency as far as I remember and I doubt many would want to treat him in the same way as the lads who came to just play rugby.

I always think of Niyi when talk about the residency rule comes up. To my mind he is the type of player that the residency rule is designed for. His family moved here for reasons that had nothing to do with rugby and put down root here. He never even played rugby until he came here but made it to the point where he was deemed good enough to be capped.

A story like his also brings up one of the downsides of the move to the 5 year rule. Your residency starts when you land in the country if you are over 18 or if you are a minor when you arrive it starts when you turn 18. SO that means that now someone like Niyi wouldn't be able to play until they turn 23. For a lot of players that is probably around the time they will be likely to break into the squad but there will undoubtedly be situations in the future where this is a problem for some teams.

Don't get me wrong I think the 5 year rule is good and waiting until they are 18 to begin the residency is also good as it stops richer nations poaching promising talent from poorer nations at a young age, just pointing out one of the potential downsides

b.gud

aloooof wrote: »

Bristol, no?

Yeah. He got a short term contract to finish out last seasons games post covid. And this week he was handed a 1 year extension, along with Peter McCabe

b.gud

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Don't post here often but why should he not be treated the same way. He's been here since he was a kid. If someone doesn't have a problem with Stander, Aki or Lowe being on the team then they shouldn't have a problem with him either.

I think op was saying that people wouldn't have a problem with Niyi being in the team because he grew up here but may have a problem with Aki, Stander or Lowe because they are seeing as mercenaries. Even though technically all players qualify under the same rules.

OP was replying to a post that suggested a limit of residency player in the match day squad and was using Niyi as an example of a grey area where technically he's a residency but I think most people would view him as being Irish because he grew up here

hahashake

b.gud wrote: »

I always think of Niyi when talk about the residency rule comes up. To my mind he is the type of player that the residency rule is designed for. His family moved here for reasons that had nothing to do with rugby and put down root here. He never even played rugby until he came here but made it to the point where he was deemed good enough to be capped.

A story like his also brings up one of the downsides of the move to the 5 year rule. Your residency starts when you land in the country if you are over 18 or if you are a minor when you arrive it starts when you turn 18. SO that means that now someone like Niyi wouldn't be able to play until they turn 23. For a lot of players that is probably around the time they will be likely to break into the squad but there will undoubtedly be situations in the future where this is a problem for some teams.

Don't get me wrong I think the 5 year rule is good and waiting until they are 18 to begin the residency is also good as it stops richer nations poaching promising talent from poorer nations at a young age, just pointing out one of the potential downsides

If you are citizen then it is automatic, I believe. No idea if he is but you would assume so.

Edit: Turns out I'm incorrect however they would be eligible for sevens which would tie them to that country.

El_Duderino 09

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Don't post here often but why should he not be treated the same way. He's been here since he was a kid. If someone doesn't have a problem with Stander, Aki or Lowe being on the team then they shouldn't have a problem with him either.

I think the poster was suggesting that someone could have reservations about the likes of Stander, Aki or Lowe who came here specifically to play for Ireland, but it would be harder to have reservations about someone like Niyi who came here as a child for reasons other than rugby. Someone like Niyi is actually functionally Irish as they (his parents) intended to live here before they considered rugby as a career.

AlmightyCushion

b.gud wrote: »

I think op was saying that people wouldn't have a problem with Niyi being in the team because he grew up here but may have a problem with Aki, Stander or Lowe because they are seeing as mercenaries. Even though technically all players qualify under the same rules.

OP was replying to a post that suggested a limit of residency player in the match day squad and was using Niyi as an example of a grey area where technically he's a residency but I think most people would view him as being Irish because he grew up here

Yeah, looks like I misinterpreted what he was saying alright. Thanks.

pickarooney

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think the poster was suggesting that someone could have reservations about the likes of Stander, Aki or Lowe who came here specifically to play for Ireland, but it would be harder to have reservations about someone like Niyi who came here as a child for reasons other than rugby. Someone like Niyi is actually functionally Irish as they (his parents) intended to live here before they considered rugby as a career.

I know it's going back a bit, but what about someone like Dion O'Cuinneagain or Simon Geoghegan? Did anyone mind having South African or English players then or were we just glad to have anyone at all who could play a bit?

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

I know it's going back a bit, but what about someone like Dion O'Cuinneagain or Simon Geoghegan? Did anyone mind having South African or English players then or were we just glad to have anyone at all who could play a bit?

They werent resident players though, they qualified through family..... So they weren't really viewed as furriners.

Simon geoghan was viewed as a god and still is!!

Dubinusa

If you're willing to uproot and move to another country and earn your place... well, fair play. I'm not really a fan of the project player route, but these lads are deserving.
I think the 5 year rule is about right.
Regardless, we are lucky to have these lads. Aki has been a brilliant addition to Connacht. I think he raises the standards for the Connacht players. Same goes for Stander.
I do think that JGP will be more of a back up type of player. I think Cooney and Murray will be our top 2 come the 6 nations.

salmocab

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yeah, looks like I misinterpreted what he was saying alright. Thanks.

You did alright but I can see how. It’s a complicated issue that is really only spoken about with regard to professionals moving here but there is a whole lot more to it.

OldRio

pickarooney wrote: »

I know it's going back a bit, but what about someone like Dion O'Cuinneagain or Simon Geoghegan? Did anyone mind having South African or English players then or were we just glad to have anyone at all who could play a bit?

'You own a pair of Rugby boots?'

'Yeah'

'You're in'

Ireland v Wales 2018 - some big performances but Sexton was on another level that day, maybe his best game in green:

sydthebeat

Stockdale and Henderson out for Conway and roux. Beirne to bench

aloooof

Interesting one that Conway game straight into the 15 and Earls stayed in the 23 jersey.

yerrahbah

Big chance for Keenan to lay claim to the 15 jersey

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Stockdale and Henderson out for Conway and roux. Beirne to bench

Henderson has had absolutely no luck. Having a dynamic aggressive ball carrying forward as a foil for Ryan would be optimal so it's a definitely a loss. Disappointing for Stockdale too - tonight was a good opportunity to put that French game behind him.

arsebiscuits1

aloooof wrote: »

Interesting one that Conway game straight into the 15 and Earls stayed in the 23 jersey.

14.

Does Earl's play right wing much? Thought he was pretty exclusively 11 like Lowe

aloooof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

14.

Does Earl's play right wing much? Thought he was pretty exclusively 11 like Lowe

Ya, good shout.

TRANQUILLO

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s entirely possible that the three most influential players in this Irish team for the next two years will all be foreign born qualified through residency.
Stander
Aki
Lowe


Say whatever you like about it, agree with it or not I don’t care, the soccer is the same but at least these three players have firmly put their roots down here.

I’m fine with it but at the same time I think it devalues international rugby a little.

Personally I think there should be a limit on the number of residency qualified players in a match day 23.

lets see do they stick around and spend their retirements here.

yerrahbah

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

14.

Does Earl's play right wing much? Thought he was pretty exclusively 11 like Lowe

Hw would have played there quite a bit for Ireland with Stockdale at 11.

Typically at Munster he plays 11 with Conway at 14

TRANQUILLO

shootermacg wrote: »

I've heard that opinion from quite a few people and I think you're entitled to feel that way and it's not an incorrect opinion to have. I'd have been partly in that camp.

But the rules are the rules and if everyone else is profiting from those rules, we'd be nuts to pass up players of the quality of our project players.

From a human perspective, these players moved here, got stuck in, worked hard and are a credit to their clubs and country.

People never debate this issue in spirit its meant to be debated. Their commitment to the cause is irrelevant. Instagram vids of them singing the fields of athenry or drinking guinness from a cup are just red herrings.


Look at it this way. imagine being a young Irish lad who came up through the ranks and is on the fringes waiting for a chance . In comes a mercenary who will use a flag of convenience for a few years and get a juicy centralised contract. If wasps offered lowe a million a season he'd be belting out god save the queen this weekend. Thats the point. You should be allowed sell yourself to any club you want, and i hope they all do and get paid handsomely but you shouldn't be allowed sell yourself to a country. I watched him scoring tries and doing hakas for the maori allblacks.

He looks like a terribly nice fella and hes a phenomenal player but he shouldn't be playing for us. End of story. It's just club rugby in countries shirts otherwise.

Clegg

That's a pretty big blow for Ireland tbh. Stockdale is in poor form at the minute but has enough class to put in.a.big performance. And Henderson is simply better than any second row we have who isn't James Ryan.

Big shame that Baird isnt available. This would've been the perfect chance for his debut.

sydthebeat

2017 is looking for their argument back

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

That's a pretty big blow for Ireland tbh. Stockdale is in poor form at the minute but has enough class to put in.a.big performance. And Henderson is simply better than any second row we have who isn't James Ryan.

Big shame that Baird isnt available. This would've been the perfect chance for his debut.

Hoping Baird can get a run out against Edinburgh on Monday and force his way into Ireland camp.

TRANQUILLO

Clegg wrote: »

That's a pretty big blow for Ireland tbh. Stockdale is in poor form at the minute but has enough class to put in.a.big performance. And Henderson is simply better than any second row we have who isn't James Ryan.

Big shame that Baird isnt available. This would've been the perfect chance for his debut.

Stockdale was dreadful. Shame Baird aint able to step up

Clegg

Very inexperienced back 3 now. Expect Biggar go make some exploratory kicks in behind to test them.

sydthebeat

Keenan to gobble up anything Biggar throws at him