Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

El_Duderino 09

aloooof wrote: »

We really didn't have the same thing tho. It's just speculation to suggest that CJ was going to be dropped for Conan, before Conan's injury.

Totally beside the point of the post. Established players are professionals and aren’t delicate flowers who can’t be dropped lest it irreparably damage their ego. The form player should play. And treat Conor Murray like a professional who can take reasonable criticism and handle being dropped. He became Ireland’s best no.9 through hard work, skill and dedication. He can do it again.

aloooof

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Totally beside the point of the post. Established players are professionals and aren’t delicate flowers who can’t be dropped lest it irreparably damage their ego. The form player should play. And treat Conor Murray like a professional who can take reasonable criticism and handle being dropped. He became Ireland’s best no.9 through hard work, skill and dedication. He can do it again.

That’s all fair enough. My only point was that picking Stander and Conan as an example to illustrate that is inaccurate.

Niallof9

accensi0n wrote: »

If Keenan has a good game here, reckon he's Ireland full-back for the next 5 years.

we need to move away from this type of thinking completely. nobody should "own" any of the shirts. Interestingly enough Keenan's rugby hero is Ben Smith if you check out a few interviews with him. He has a touch of ben smith about him. same height, same weight, same kind of movement. I mean he could become our first choice 15 no doubt. But if he's not performing even if he's on 30 caps we try something else. this is the new reality. it has to be.

bilston

accensi0n wrote: »

If Keenan has a good game here, reckon he's Ireland full-back for the next 5 years.

Yeah, until the average rugby fan discovers their shiny new toy in about 6 months time and he gets replaced.

Niallof9

bilston wrote: »

Yeah, until the average rugby fan discovers their shiny new toy in about 6 months time and he gets replaced.

why does it have to be so black and white. Maybe in one period of time Larmour or Daly out perform him. I mean surely different combinations can be tried no? Part of the issue we have had is capping players regardless and not picking the player that is clearly performing best. Its why we've a whole heap of lads nearing huge cap numbers. Thankfully this weekend it seems a seismic shift has happened. thank **** for that

lawrencesummers

Looking at the team that England have picked I wouldn’t put any Irish player ahead of their starting English counterpart.

Maybe James Ryan but I think he hasn’t been playing at top form since the return after lockdown .
Aki and Slade is close, but not much in it.

That goes for the bench as well, England have better options off the bench. Ben Earl has been playing great rugby. Very little between Murray and Robson but Murray probably shades it and George Ford is a far better ten than Burns.

We have had a few games to get up to speed and England looked poor against Italy plus they didnt get much against Georgia so a big start is crucial for us. We have to go ahead on the scoreboard and stay ahead of this English team to win it because I can’t for the life of me see us coming from behind and winning this one.

England tend to start games very well which we need to handle because If we go ten points down it’s game over.

ionadnapokot

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I think players holding on to national jerseys for that length of time is going to become a much rarer occurrence going forward with the level of quality we have available to us in certain positions.

For example Will Addison is barely 28 and I think he is absolute top quality when fit and someone who could really make a dent on the international scene.

Shane Daly has all the qualities of a top class fullback.

Jimmy O'Brien is another who could well find himself in the picture for international starts if he continues the way he's started this season

This is how I would rate Irelands FB options
Obvs Keenan & Stockdale are ahead of Lowry selection wise. I just rate Lowry higher.

1. Larmour
2. Lowry
3. Keenan
4. Daly
5. Jimmy O'B
6. Stephen Fitgerald
7. Stockdale
8. Addsion*

Discounting Addison really because of his injury profile.

edit
ive not seen any of Matt Gallagher

aloooof

ionadnapokot wrote: »

This is how I would rate Irelands FB options
Obvs Keenan & Stockdale are ahead of Lowry selection wise. I just rate Lowry higher.

1. Larmour
2. Lowry
3. Keenan
4. Daly
5. Jimmy O'B
6. Stephen Fitgerald
7. Stockdale
8. Addsion*

Discounting Addison really because of his injury profile.

edit
ive not seen any of Matt Gallagher

Haley as well deserves a mention. Daly rightly got a lot of praise for some very solid performances post-lockdown. But I think there's a case that Haley could start the bigger games at 15 for Munster. To my mind, he offers a bigger counter-attacking threat.

arsebiscuits1

ionadnapokot wrote: »

This is how I would rate Irelands FB options
Obvs Keenan & Stockdale are ahead of Lowry selection wise. I just rate Lowry higher.

1. Larmour
2. Lowry
3. Keenan
4. Daly
5. Jimmy O'B
6. Stephen Fitgerald
7. Stockdale
8. Addsion*

Discounting Addison really because of his injury profile.

edit
ive not seen any of Matt Gallagher

Eh?

By and large I can see where you're coming from but Stephen Fitzgerald is generously the 3rd choice 15 for Connacht possibly. He started there twice in the last 15 months. I wouldn't have him in the picture at fullback at all. Certainly not over O'Halloran.

Haley, Gallagher and even Dave Kearney would be more viable options before Fitzgerald I'd say

ionadnapokot

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Eh?

By and large I can see where you're coming from but Stephen Fitzgerald is generously the 3rd choice 15 for Connacht possibly. He started there twice in the last 15 months. I wouldn't have him in the picture at fullback at all. Certainly not over O'Halloran.

Haley, Gallagher and even Dave Kearney would be more viable options before Fitzgerald I'd say

Fair enough. I just really like him.
Totally forgot about Haley!
Haley for Fitzgerald i suppose
edit
How good is Gallagher? Better than Haley?

shootermacg

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Fair enough. I just really like him.
Totally forgot about Haley!
Haley for Fitzgerald i suppose
edit
How good is Gallagher? Better than Haley?

I think Gallagher lacks a bit of pace to be a wing option. He's pretty much a bespoke FB. Very strong, good in the air and picks nice lines.

ionadnapokot

aloooof wrote: »

Haley as well deserves a mention. Daly rightly got a lot of praise for some very solid performances post-lockdown. But I think there's a case that Haley could start the bigger games at 15 for Munster. To my mind, he offers a bigger counter-attacking threat.

I had forgotten Haley. i think i did so because i made up my mind on him last year & never rated him as an international option.

I really like Daly. He jut looks like a solid FB.
What about Gallagher. Good kicker, fielder etc?

Gallaghers Dad back in the day v Ireland
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=PTHKlkTcci4

swiwi_

ionadnapokot wrote: »

This is how I would rate Irelands FB options

1. Larmour
2. Lowry
3. Keenan
4. Daly
5. Jimmy O'B
6. Stephen Fitgerald
7. Stockdale
8. Addsion*
9. Swiwi

I was awesome back in the day. And with having lived more than 5 years in Ireland, I qualify! Sadly, age is against me

ionadnapokot

swiwi_ wrote: »

I was awesome back in the day. And with having lived more than 5 years in Ireland, I qualify! Sadly, age is against me

Had to discount you because I heard you were prone to the odd error in the big games.

Paul Smeenus

swiwi_ wrote: »

I was awesome back in the day. And with having lived more than 5 years in Ireland, I qualify! Sadly, age is against me

NO MORE MERCENARIES

Rugbymad2020

Dog Botherer wrote: »

there’s an argument to be made that Scotland in particular were taking the piss so aggressively with the 3 year rule that they were one of the main reasons WR had to extend residency. they literally had a lad in the SRU whose job it was to buy project players for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Wales are less noticeably bad because most of their players have English names but they pick an absolutely insane amount of English born players. England “poach” off Wales too, ask a Welsh fan about Sam Underhill.

I would say we have a much lower instance of lads being bought in to play national level and ****ing off immediately when the contract is up a la Josh Strauss. in fact i can’t really think of a single instance of that. Bent has played about 5,000 Pro14 games for Leinster, Payne is defense coach in Ulster, Bundee Aki could have been on mad money in France after his first contract and he still stuck with Connacht.

And Ireland send scouts every year to craven week in Sa to promise the moon and the stars to the kids to get them over to Ireland ?

bilston

Lowe is probably the last of the project players anyway isn't he?

Anyone else likely to be capped?

Dog Botherer

bilston wrote: »

Lowe is probably the last of the project players anyway isn't he?

Anyone else likely to be capped?

some possibilities:

Butler
Marshall
Knox
Salanoa

Cloete was brought in as project i assume but is nowhere near international standard.

El_Duderino 09

Dog Botherer wrote: »

some possibilities:

Butler
Marshall
Knox
Salanoa

Cloete was brought in as project i assume but is nowhere near international standard.

I didn’t know Cloete was a a project player. I’d much prefer to see Hodnet get game time ahead of Cloete.

aloooof

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I didn’t know Cloete was a a project player. If much prefer to see Hodnet get game time ahead of Cloete.

That's what's been happening this season, but unfortunately Hodnett has picked up a long-term injury now.

Dog Botherer

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I didn’t know Cloete was a a project player. I’d much prefer to see Hodnet get game time ahead of Cloete.

Cloete has mostly been used has an impact sub over the past year or so. Wouldn’t be surprised if he wasn’t kept on.

swiwi_

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

NO MORE MERCENARIES

STOP THE COUNT!

pickarooney

sydthebeat wrote: »

no its not...

xenophobic means a distrust or prejudice against other countries.

Which is why everyone wants the perfidious English to lose!

jacothelad

glasso wrote: »

Just close your eyes and pretend it's not happening

5 lads starting, none of whom had set foot in Ireland until they were in their 20's and not one Irish granny between them

apart from those that do have....

jacothelad

jacothelad wrote: »

apart from those that do have....

incorrect (5 starters)

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest, I've accepted the project player thing but it has never sat right with me. I consider somebody to be from a country when they grew up there. That's my baseline. So when I see someone in an Irish jersey with a blatant South African accent, it doesn't feel right. I've accepted it and I've gotten over it as my want for Ireland to succeed is greater.
.

I hate the residency rule for a few reasons but primarily is because it is for the advantage of just a few countries.

The PIs, Georgia and Argentina for example aren't able to lure players into their system with 6 figure contracts. Yet they offer so much especially to RWC time. The PIs in particular lose out hugely. The move to 5 years was great but it needs to be abolished altogether IMO

molloyjh

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I hate the residency rule for a few reasons but primarily is because it is for the advantage of just a few countries.

The PIs, Georgia and Argentina for example aren't able to lure players into their system with 6 figure contracts. Yet they offer so much especially to RWC time. The PIs in particular lose out hugely. The move to 5 years was great but it needs to be abolished altogether IMO

So that people can only play in the country of their birth or where they have ancestry? What about people who move to a country as kids and come through the system in that country? Many Tuilagi for example was born in Samoa and has no English ancestry (to my knowledge at least) but he moved to England and came through their set up. He qualified on residency grounds. So how do you account for those cases? Do you say that anyone who started professional rugby in other countries are excluded?

sydthebeat

"de durk er derbs"

swiwi_

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Had to discount you because I heard you were prone to the odd error in the big games.

The clearing kick behind the goalposts...that hit the goalposts. The quick throw-in that was intercepted. Yip a few cringeworthy clangers down the years.

UAEguy2020

Why are people still talking about this residency mumbo jumbo when mods clearly said move on? This topic is getting nauseating now.