Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

kingofthekong

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I never said Ryan shouldnt start. I just think he was poor. For all talk of him being world class. He isnt near that. He has a fantastic engine but he was leading a terrible lineout. His calling was terrible. Stander wasnt fantastic but Baird isnt a back row option at international level.
Leavy is barely back from a very long term injury. No reason at all to just shove him straight back to international level on basis of 2 hours of rugby.

Ryan was probably the only player to make it over the gainline on multiple occasions for ireland today, to say he isnt worldclass is laughable, POM would be in your irish team for the next 10 years if you got your way,

Leavy is our best 7 ...we all know this its not even a debate, get him in

Itoje and Lawes have both been used at 6 in international rugby and so should we with Baird especially when trying to complete with teams like England until we have another serious threat on the deck that we could put there

Clegg

Our defence must also be questioned, specifically when we lose the ball. France and England have scored trys against us from deep within their own half after we've gifted them possession. Yes, they have gifted backs who can score from anywhere, but on both occasions our defence has been rubbish. Chris Farrell missed a fairly standard one on one with May inside England's 22 for instance.

bilston

Paul Weller wrote: »

Rediculous

Bluediculous?

Paul Weller

bilston wrote: »

Bluediculous?

Smurftastic!

If Kelleher starts a 6n game I'll be disappointed

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Our defence must also be questioned, specifically when we lose the ball. France and England have scored trys against us from deep within their own half after we've gifted them possession. Yes, they have gifted backs who can score from anywhere, but on both occasions our defence has been rubbish. Chris Farrell missed a fairly standard one on one with May inside England's 22 for instance.

It wasn't that standard for Farrell - May is outrageously fast and Farrell got his footing ever so slightly wrong.

Most pivotal moment in the game though.

kingofthekong

Paul Weller wrote: »

Smurftastic!

If Kelleher starts a 6n game I'll be disappointed

Leinstertainment **

Prepare to be disappointed x

OldRio

Clegg wrote: »

Funnily enough I've not been too disappointed in our defeats to France or England. I've seen enough to think that we're going in the right direction. Our forwards generally matched up well to either pack. I'm not left with the hollow feeling of any post 2018 Schmidt performance.

Our big problem is now about how we convert pressure into points. We made a mess of things against France and England. 5 metre lineouts not going to hand, turning the ball over on the opposition's line and even just not going for the posts. There's plenty of effort going in, but not enough results.

Can I just thank this again. Clarity in a fog of disappointment.

UAEguy2020

Clegg wrote: »

Funnily enough I've not been too disappointed in our defeats to France or England. I've seen enough to think that we're going in the right direction. Our forwards generally matched up well to either pack. I'm not left with the hollow feeling of any post 2018 Schmidt performance.

Our big problem is now about how we convert pressure into points. We made a mess of things against France and England. 5 metre lineouts not going to hand, turning the ball over on the opposition's line and even just not going for the posts. There's plenty of effort going in, but not enough results.

Completly agree.


Cant even begin to talk of the depression there was after that 57-14 performance last year for example :O

Some Yoke

I think porter to loose head, furlong back, leavy back after a few more games of getting up to speed, line out issues resolved through change of personnel or tactics and our forwards aren't in too bad of a place, Healy can still do a job off the bench. Ryan just having a dip in form after ages of being remarkably consistent, it will pass.

The Lost Sheep

Some Yoke wrote: »

I think porter to loose head, furlong back, leavy back after a few more games of getting up to speed, line out issues resolved through change of personnel or tactics and our forwards aren't in too bad of a place, Healy can still do a job off the bench. Ryan just having a dip in form after ages of being remarkably consistent, it will pass.

Porter isnt going back as a loosehead. Why would he?
Furlong mightnt be back for while yet. Leavy needs a fair few more games considering he was out as long as he was.

UAEguy2020

I thought Esterby is now the defence coach?

shootermacg

Deleted User wrote: »

It wasn't that standard for Farrell - May is outrageously fast and Farrell got his footing ever so slightly wrong.

Most pivotal moment in the game though.

If you look back Aki did him zero favors there, his spacing was all wrong.

shootermacg

Some Yoke wrote: »

I think porter to loose head, furlong back, leavy back after a few more games of getting up to speed, line out issues resolved through change of personnel or tactics and our forwards aren't in too bad of a place, Healy can still do a job off the bench. Ryan just having a dip in form after ages of being remarkably consistent, it will pass.

I was of the same opinion, definitely with Furlong back and in form I'd go that way. But I also can't deny that with time as starting tight-head he's become as good in the scrum and I don't know any other tight-head that can go 80 with that much intensity.

He's basically a phenom at this stage and should be cherished. He's possibly Ireland's best player and without a doubt Ireland's most important one.

kingofthekong

Where do you find stats on dominant tackle stats, gainline successes, metres made etc

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

Where do you find stats on dominant tackle stats, gainline successes, metres made etc

Look at ESPN for metres etc. Wont list dominant tackle stats. Not many sites do.

shootermacg

kingofthekong wrote: »

Where do you find stats on dominant tackle stats, gainline successes, metres made etc

Ah shur just make up your own

bilston

kingofthekong wrote: »

Where do you find stats on dominant tackle stats, gainline successes, metres made etc

ESPN normally do them...in saying that I haven't been able to find them for the Autmns Nations Cup

Some Yoke

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Porter isnt going back as a loosehead. Why would he?
Furlong mightnt be back for while yet. Leavy needs a fair few more games considering he was out as long as he was.

Our two best mobile abrasive and scrummaging props on the field versus an ageing healy/ed byrne etc. Cant see why it wouldnt be a valid option to try out in order to take on the best teams with our best players, at least one no to dismiss so quickly

The Lost Sheep

Some Yoke wrote: »

Our two best mobile abrasive and scrummaging props on the field versus an ageing healy/ed byrne etc. Cant see why it wouldnt be a valid option to try out in order to take on the best teams with our best players, at least one no to dismiss so quickly

There has been far too much time invested in him switching and while Healy is 33. Ed Byrne/Dooley are fine at loosehead never mind any of the academy guys coming through who could step up.
It isnt that simple to just switch back to play loose from tight.

kingofthekong

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Look at ESPN for metres etc. Wont list dominant tackle stats. Not many sites do.

bilston wrote: »

ESPN normally do them...in saying that I haven't been able to find them for the Autmns Nations Cup

Cheers

TRC10

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There has been far too much time invested in him switching and while Healy is 33. Ed Byrne/Dooley are fine at loosehead never mind any of the academy guys coming through who could step up.
It isnt that simple to just switch back to play loose from tight.

I don't think anybody is saying it's simple, but he can 100% do it. He went from LH to TH which is supposedly more difficult so he should be able to switch back. And he dominated the Welsh scrum at LH in a WC warm up last August. We have some cracking young tightheads (Salanoa, Knox, aungier, o'toole) but theres a series lack of quality on the other side. It would definitely be in our best interests to get our 2 world class props on the field. The only hiccup I can think of is the Lions tour. At the moment hes nailed on to go as one of the 3 tightheads, so he may not be so keen to switch positions at such a critical stage for his selection hopes.

The Lost Sheep

TRC10 wrote: »

I don't think anybody is saying it's simple, but he can 100% do it. He went from LH to TH which is supposedly more difficult so he should be able to switch back. And he dominated the Welsh scrum at LH in a WC warm up last August. We have some cracking young tightheads (Salanoa, Knox, aungier, o'toole) but theres a series lack of quality on the other side. It would definitely be in our best interests to get our 2 world class props on the field.

Switching back isnt the answer to loosehead and he isnt world class. Good player but not a world class player.

TRC10

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Switching back isnt the answer to loosehead and he isnt world class. Good player but not a world class player.

How is it not the answer to loose head? Who do we have to replace Healy?

The Lost Sheep

TRC10 wrote: »

How is it not the answer to loose head? Who do we have to replace Healy?

Because he isnt going to switch back when he's spent all that time changing over. He wont be playing there for Leinster who will want him on the tight and will prefer to give Dooley, Milne, Ed Byrne time at loosehead.
Especially with Furlong out for now he will be involved with Ireland at tight head and not necessarily at loosehead.

TRC10

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Because he isnt going to switch back when he's spent all that time changing over. He wont be playing there for Leinster who will want him on the tight and will prefer to give Dooley, Milne, Ed Byrne time at loosehead.
Especially with Furlong out for now he will be involved with Ireland at tight head and not necessarily at loosehead.

He might if he wants to be first choice for ireland. Pete Dooley and ed byrne are hardly going to be international quality props.

The Lost Sheep

TRC10 wrote: »

He might if he wants to be first choice for ireland. Pete Dooley and ed byrne are hardly going to be international quality props.

They may they may not but there's others in other provinces who can step up to international level and for Leinster not everyone needs to be international standard

TRC10

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They may they may not but there's others in other provinces who can step up to international level and for Leinster not everyone needs to be international standard

I'm talking about ireland not leinster. I think its fair that you have to be international standard to play for Ireland. And if he wants to be starting for Ireland he may need to make the switch if thats what Farrell and co wants. But that remains to be seen I guess.

theVersatile

Porter to LH my days... Sheep is right they don't spend all the time converting him just to lob him back at LH again, bar a Beahlam style emergency. Porters goal is to get past Furlong to be #1 TH.

Also POM was Irelands best forward (Doris close second) and anybody who thinks otherwise (bar switching 1st and 2nd) is a troll or severely one eyed.

To contribute to the LH conversation, Killer has to come back. EOS would have a hernia if Porter was switched.

And guys, come on, saying Kellehers throwing isn't up to test standard isn't writing him off. It's pointing out is work ons. What ever happened to the old mentality of hookers being bad if their basics were bad? You'd swear he was Asafo Aumua the way some people to on about him, I feel his work in play has been really overrated. Bar his double tackle today with Ryan (I think?) he doesn't make any big contributions, unlike Herring who had a jackal about him atleast (not to mention better darts, the steal at the end of today's game doesn't mean otherwise).

Very frustrating reading in this thread from some people

theVersatile

kingofthekong wrote: »

1. Healy
2. Kelleher
3. Furlong
4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Leavy
8. Doris

^^ I want to start see this pack , its the only one in the near future i see beating England

1. Killer
2. O'Byrne
3. Ryan
4. Beirne
5. Ryan
6. POM
7. Leavy
8. CJ

^^ I want to start see this pack , its the only one in the near future i see beating England

ElisaAtWar

Healy is so slow to the breakdown. He needs to be replaced. Ross was always going to do what he did. And Keenan is just not physically able at this level