Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Niallof9

sydthebeat wrote: »

Niall, youre all over the place, youre not even making coherent sentences any more.
what do you mean in the bolded sentence? It really makes no sense.

are you saying that those players will inevitably get capped in the next 12 months, but because they will not be capped against georgia thats a bad thing?

do you give andy farrell any kudos for capping 9 new players in 7 games ??

do you have any consideration that players who are new to international rugby require experience alongside them?
do you consider what england did against georgia to be a waste of a game?

wales gave 3 players their debuts versus georgia, and made 13 changes from the previous week... and were absolute muck. Played a disjointed turgid headless game and the 18 - 0 win did absolutely nothing for a team on a 6 game losing streak.

i think its quite clear what i mean. these lads are elite talents, and most likely will be capped. go away with the nonsense, claiming i'm all over the place i've laid out the points pretty fairly at this stage. its tricky cause the circle jerk this forum has become when its not gametime means the same voices over and over again. You'd swear going by this forum alone its universally accepted. Both the Indo, the times and Murray Kinsella have referenced there would be criticism. its not like i'm ****ing alone in this thinking. People said hold your horses at squad announcement time, of course there will be changes many said. well here we are...

I've said i have. He's the first coach in a while to back form. I've said this a number of times. Its still not enough.

Yes i do. In fact the whole tournaments questionable at this stage. Picking Murray will be a nadir for me really. and it will be one of the first matches in about 28 years i have little interest in watching. I'd much rather some experimentation and hosing them, then hosing them in a nothing game with seasoned pros like Conor involved. And either Wales are muck as most suggest or they're not we can;t have it both ways. There's a reason they only beat them 18-0. Pivac is a new coach. Farrell and Easterbuy are both directly involved in one of our worst ever World Cups.

Dog Botherer

yeah why pick your most experienced half back (a test Lion who can goal kick and cover 10) when your remaining options at 10 have five caps between them. madness. what will Farrell do next?

Yeah_Right

Niallof9 wrote: »

Have a look at the average age of the two teams that played the last tests between NZ and Australia.

What were the average ages? And how did they compare to Ireland v England? If you have a link, I'd be happy to look at it.

Niallof9

Yeah cause thats what everyone would have guessed last season. If somebody had suggested that on here, next November we'd be picking Murray against Georgia in a nothing test, people would have called you a troll. Its a much deeper problem here. Cooney, Marmion, Blade are worth a shot as much as JGP. ditto with McGrath who has recovered well. Conor has got a bit of his mojo back but we learn nothing picking him. But no people have to say its madness picking a kid. Its nothing to do with bloody Casey. Who will be a multi cap international regardless. Anyway yeah who knows he's not a dead cert, but if he's picked you'll see i'm far from the only person who would round on that type of nothing selection. You might as well leave Cian in there for the same argument. Porter too. Sure why not just keep the same 15 for the craic.

sydthebeat

Niallof9 wrote: »

........ But no people have to say its madness picking a kid. Its nothing to do with bloody Casey. Who will be a multi cap international regardless. Anyway yeah who knows he's not a dead cert, but if he's picked ........

youre still all over the place, its like something written by a schizophrenic.

have a break, wait till the team is named, take some time to consider WHY certain selections are made...

then come back and put a coherent argument together

Niallof9

sydthebeat wrote: »

youre still all over the place, its like something written by a schizophrenic.

have a break, wait till the team is named, take some time to consider WHY certain selections are made...

then come back and put a coherent argument together

absolutely ****ing disgraceful. i won't even dignify that with a response.

P.Walnuts

Christ, I thought I did f*ck all at work

aloooof

Niallof9 wrote: »

Yeah cause thats what everyone would have guessed last season. If somebody had suggested that on here, next November we'd be picking Murray against Georgia in a nothing test, people would have called you a troll. Its a much deeper problem here. Cooney, Marmion, Blade are worth a shot as much as JGP. ditto with McGrath who has recovered well. Conor has got a bit of his mojo back but we learn nothing picking him. But no people have to say its madness picking a kid. Its nothing to do with bloody Casey. Who will be a multi cap international regardless. Anyway yeah who knows he's not a dead cert, but if he's picked you'll see i'm far from the only person who would round on that type of nothing selection. You might as well leave Cian in there for the same argument. Porter too. Sure why not just keep the same 15 for the craic.

You constantly over-exaggerate and misrepresent people's position on this. Absolutely no one is saying it would be madness to pick Casey.

They are saying they think it'd be better for his development to be retained for Munster and get 80 mins alongside Healy in awful conditions, away to a niggly Glasgow team, for example.

Niallof9

aloooof wrote: »

You constantly over-exaggerate and misrepresent people's position on this. Absolutely no one is saying it would be madness to pick Casey.

They are saying they think it'd be better for his development to be retained for Munster and get 80 mins alongside Healy in awful conditions, away to a niggly Glasgow team, for example.

No i'm saying people are misrepresenting my position. I never argued for Casey, if you're going to constantly nitpick the points try and do it fairly. I'm saying people are conflating the idea of some change with picking the kids, thats not whats happening at all. The reaction to a few suggestions is as if its mad to suggest that. Its perfectly reasonable, so much so that Eaasterbuy even had to reference it in his presser today. When i complained at the initial selection people said hold your horses, wait for the gerogia game, it will be all change. Now, of course, the goalposts have shifted on here. Its a constant theme on this thread. as if its a sacred cow you cannot criticise. its utterly ridiculous.

Anyway i'm out after the insult above. The threads been like this for years. There's far more balance on babblingbrook, munsterfans etc. For instance people have stopped talking about 2018. People don't tend to belittle any differing opinions either. I mean i could take it if you lads weren't clearly wrong nearly all of the time. I laid out a position. There should have been changes in the squad for this game and anybody suggesting say last year that Murray would be playing in a nothing game against Georgia would have laughed. . some of the responses have been wholly unreasonable for these basic arguments. I'm hardly alone in this thinking, its just they don't tend to post here, unfortunately.

Anyway it is what it is i'll wait for the team to be named and enjoy the meltdown on other platforms.

it was a blank canvas to try things. Who know's just maybe he's reserving it for other games. Like i said numerous times he's the most progressive coach so far. But its also not enough for me. Billy Burns would do fine with Marmion playing inside him. Playing an 80 ap veteran against a team ranked 12th is just wrong on so many levels. Particularly when this was such an issue only last season. I'll happily wipe the egg from my face if Murray isn't involved.

aloooof

"I don't think Murray should start against Georgia because..." is a perfectly reasonably argument.

"I'd enjoy a coach that had a set of balls to play people who are performing" is not.

You stray towards the latter type of rhetoric pretty often imo. It's a shame.

As for this (and case in point):

Niallof9 wrote: »

There's far more balance on babblingbrook, munsterfans etc. People don't tend to belittle any differing opinions either. I mean i could take it if you lads weren't clearly wrong nearly all of the time.

Do I need to point out the issue with this?? :pac:

TRC10

Well I just had the chance to rewatch the game, and I'm really struggling to see the positives. England were ok, and only playing at about 70% managed to absolutely bully us in about every facet of the game. Breakdown, set piece, gainline, it looked like men against boys for most of the game. Its really disheartening to see that we've gone absolutely nowhere since February 2019 and look no closer to challenging the big teams. It's all well and good throwing the ball around against Italy at home and the worst welsh team (that I've ever seen anyway). How can you compete with no set piece? And absolutely toothless in attack once more, one out runners off 9 and 10 all day. I've seen u15 teams with better, less predictable attacking shapes. Farrell was probably our best player but he should have finished the try. Omahony was ok too. Doris has huge potential but got absolutely beaten up. Kelleher was good around the park but needs to sort his set piece out. Gibson park was good v wales but his decision making was abysmal. Frankly it was embarrassing.

Dog Botherer

we’ve already done this one i think

Dubinusa

Jaysus!

Tommybojangles

I avoided the forum for 2 weeks and literally the exact Same argument is happening

Solutionking

So the Georgia game
Would like to see Ryan get a rest and a few other players,

No idea who is actually fit in front row but Kelleher at hooker
Hendo, Beirne
Connors, VDF, Doris
JGP, Burns
McCloskey, Farrell
Lowe, Stockdale, Keenan

Still some of the players from England game but also give a chance to some new players

shootermacg

I would be happy if Ireland added a pick and jam to their game. It was way to easy for England to just target our midfield.

bilston

Team announcement today, or tomorrow because it is a Sunday game?

Sanjuro

shootermacg wrote: »

I would be happy if Ireland added a pick and jam to their game. It was way to easy for England to just target our midfield.

Pick and jam was all we did in the English 22 and it got us nothing.

arsebiscuits1

Sanjuro wrote: »

Pick and jam was all we did in the English 22 and it got us nothing.

Much more different in the 22 though as the opposition can potentially have 15 men in the defensive line.

From half way to opposition 22, a lot of teams employ pick and jams because you can potentially burn 2 opposition players each ruck and they'd likely have another 2 in the backfield so it's more effective to find gaps and soft shoulders.

Ireland rarely use this approach

CMcsporty

bilston wrote: »

Team announcement today, or tomorrow because it is a Sunday game?

Tuesday for Sat games.
Should have been today.
Farrell in disarray after Saturday!

Ryan is going to be captain again anyway

Former Former Former

CMcsporty wrote: »

Tuesday for Sat games.
Should have been today.

There is no set time for when the team is to be announced.

Most likely he's waiting to see how injuries develop. The front row is in bits.

moritz1234

I think Lowe has shown he's not an international class winger. Overweight and too slow

yoursaviour1989

moritz1234 wrote: »

I think Lowe has shown he's not an international class winger. Overweight and too slow

Thanks Chris Ashton

CMcsporty

Former Former Former wrote: »

There is no set time for when the team is to be announced.

Most likely he's waiting to see how injuries develop. The front row is in bits.

I wasnt serious! remember all the hullabaloo about Farrell naming the team early?

Who are the loosheads in the squads.
O'Sullivan, Healy & ? Is Bealham covering loose?

leakyboots

moritz1234 wrote: »

I think Lowe has shown he's not an international class winger. Overweight and too slow

Bit quick on the draw there after a couple of games, he's shown enough to warrant further looking at. That chase back was abysmal and some of his kicking has been suspect, but he's a powerful attacker out wide and a good man to offload, I wouldn't be writing him off yet.



I'm curious about the calls to move CJ to 6 for Doris on here - CJ has consistently shown his worth at 8, I don't know does Doris give us more there compared to what CJ does and if CJ is our best candidate at 6. Maybe give them a few games I guess

Paul Smeenus

https://www.the42.ie/stuart-mccloskey-ireland-georgia-5278219-Nov2020/

Big Stu playing anyway.

Richie_Rich89

leakyboots wrote: »

Bit quick on the draw there after a couple of games, he's shown enough to warrant further looking at. That chase back was abysmal and some of his kicking has been suspect, but he's a powerful attacker out wide and a good man to offload, I wouldn't be writing him off yet.



I'm curious about the calls to move CJ to 6 for Doris on here - CJ has consistently shown his worth at 8, I don't know does Doris give us more there compared to what CJ does and if CJ is our best candidate at 6. Maybe give them a few games I guess

Stander was good at 6 back when Heaslip was playing, and Doris seems to play better at 8 than at 6.

Richie_Rich89

I'm seeing some talk about the lineout issues. How can you hope to have a really good lineout without a master caller/jumper playing? Roux and Henderson and Ryan can and do call lineouts, but none of them are noted callers/jumpers. For a long time Ireland had O'Connell and then Toner. Is the value of a really good caller/jumper not being recognised enough at the moment? Personally, I'd like to see Thornbury more involved. He's good in the lineout. Trouble is he's quite injury-prone. The others should focus more on tighthead lock, imo, if they can bring enough weight to the role to complement a jumper lock, or, if playing th lock doesn't suit them, focus on blindside at international level.

Paul Smeenus

In fairness, Henderson is the go-to Irish lineout caller, has been since Toner stopped featuring. It's just that he has been injured a bit. I'm not sure what a "noted line-out caller" is? Do Scotland have one? France?

And Ryan is our TH lock - for all everyone was talking about Roux adding ballast and helping Porter, he played at 4.

Skyfloater

The RTE podcast on the Ireland England game is up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTGPLpqGq_I