Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

shootermacg

Farrell is trying to bed in a plan with his team. What good does it do anyone if you're playing everyone that has ever held a rugby ball, you're stopping the starting team from gelling.
Farrell is 100% correct, he will see what the young hopefuls have when they play in Europe.
The crap on here, the people calling for guys who haven't started a full season are just bonkers. Jesus wept!

On the bright side, that back row looks like the most balanced back row I've seen in quite a while.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

I would have thought Burns starting was absolutely fair enough?

I know you would!
I wouldnt!

I see Ross Byrne as a better player. He has started...3 games for Ireland?
Two against England.
I think it would be fair if they stuck with him v Georgia to build his confidence.

Then he could come off after 70 mins and shake his younger brothers hand and give him a slap on the back for his 1st cap. He is one for the future.....
Oh...fook it..

Niallof9

That Daly will get his go is patently obvious? eh where

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

I would have thought Burns starting was absolutely fair enough?

of course it is...
and i would wager a very significant reason murray is starting as well

sydthebeat

Niallof9 wrote: »

That Daly will get his go is patently obvious? eh where

maybe you missed his name in the squad selection... hes actually there if you look hard enough !!!

Niallof9

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Fiji was a November international played over 2 years ago where Schmitt put a side out with a complete squad rotation. In the end due to absolute NO cohesion Ireland luckily ran out 2 point winners. It was a game to forget for both players and management. there is not point in changing the complete squad just so caps can be handed out. I want Farrell to pick and choose only 3 or four players who have a shout and play them with the senior squad. He also is a relatively new manager and I don’t think he has stamped his style of play (if he has any) on the senior squad as of yet.

who said anything about changing the whole squad? this will be a 50 point win and we'll be no better in cohesion. Mainly cause Sexton is the 10 till he retires. So bang there goes one part of the grand plan. Earls isn't that big a deal if you want to get him back in. I agree with maybe 4/5 changes. I mean thats the point with Keenan. He was tried, he did ok. Now why and how does he suddenly become an automatic starter. SUddenly he'll be on 20 caps and those calling for a Daly or whoever wwill be told...well Hugo has 20 caps now you can't be dropping him..its the constant narrative of Irish Rugby. Sure might as well get the ink dry on those central deals for Keenan and COnnors. Those two European games have really stood them in stead. There's absolutely no reason Daly or whoever can't be tried like Keenan was with Italy. Irish rugby at times is utterly bizarre and a sort of never ending self fulfilling prophecy. And there's enough cheerleaders on here and in print which means all criticism is banished. People like Andy Dunne are quacks and the word 2018 is thrown about at will.

shootermacg

Earls is there because, he's got 2 relatively inexperienced players playing alongside him. I am guessing he will be doing a lot of shouting.

molloyjh

Some disappointing elements to that selection, but predictably the general reaction here is OTT.

At loose head we are paying the price for a shortsighted squad selection a few weeks back. Having only 2 LHs in the squad was always a risk. That has now come back to bite us in both prop positions. We have to move 1 TH over to LH, leaving us with only 2 THs available. And obviously Ryan is simply not rated, meaning we're flogging Porter. What that means for next weeks selection I dont know. EOS will only have been in camp a day or two so not too surprised he isn't involved. For me the error here was not getting him in sooner.

Not too bothered by our hooker or lock selections for the most part, although I'd have started Roux here instead of Ryan just to manage the latters game time some. Although after last week maybe Ryan needs to get back on the horse and develop his partnership with Henderson. Not too much in this though.

In the back row we've capped a few guys this year so ultimately this game shouldn't be about new guys, but instead about managing game time. No complaints there as a result.

At half-backs Burns needed to start and Murray alongside him probably gives him the best chance to make his case so all good there.

In the centre, this was really the only selection we could make. I do think we need to start looking at a more like for like replacement for Ringrose at 13, which is tough on Farrell, but we need a bit more creativity in the centre and Farrell doesn't bring that. I dont know if Hume is worth a look, but we need to make some sort of change there going forward.

In the back 3, Stockdale has a load of potential at FB so giving him more time there was a must. With Lowe and Conway injured we were always going to have one of Keenan or Daly out there. Meaning we needed a steady hand too. Ideally that would have been Conway, but Earls will do I've no real issue with that selection at all tbh.

The big issue for me here is the initial squad selection with only 2 LHs. It has caused is real issues now in the front row for this week and next plus for Leinster in Europe. Other than that some minor quibbles but overall nothing of any real note. We have to remember we're missing quite a few players so that's going to make selections over the course of this tournament that bit more tricky.

ionadnapokot

shootermacg wrote: »

Farrell is trying to bed in a plan with his team. What good does it do anyone if you're playing everyone that has ever held a rugby ball, you're stopping the starting team from gelling.
Farrell is 100% correct, he will see what the young hopefuls have when they play in Europe.
The crap on here, the people calling for guys who haven't started a full season are just bonkers. Jesus wept!

On the bright side, that back row looks like the most balanced back row I've seen in quite a while.

What is this plan? im serious..this 1-3-2-2 that the world and their mother know how to play? It's not even very different at all with what Joe Schmidt had them doing.
Because all im hearing is "an ability to play with their heads up" and "make a decision through trusting what he sees" Bollix talk.
What I'm seeing is a team that is utterly rudderless and unable to implement or execute said plan.

And you seriously think this is a team selected to gel?
You would start with picking players in their best positions

Niallof9

ionadnapokot wrote: »

What is this plan? im serious..this 1-3-2-2 that the world and their mother know how to play? It's not even very different at all with what Joe Schmidt had them doing.
Because all im hearing is "an ability to play with their heads up" and "make a decision through trusting what he sees" Bollix talk.
What I'm seeing is a team that is utterly rudderless and unable to implement or execute said plan.

And you seriously think this is a team selected to gel?
You would start with picking players in their best positions

there doesn't seem to be any plan. the usual people defending it even though they would have never suggested it. Overreacting, the same words that were used in the english warm up game, the Japan game and so on. So yes of course its an overreaction and anybody questioning it is a wum and not a true fan. Farrell won't last long i reckon. Its a busted flush of a coaching ticket. Nice guys, respected, lads love them but why did they risk it on a guy who's never been head coach. Again the weird flip flopping of Irish rugby. Too conservative to be bold, goes nuts with the first time head coach.

Buer

bilston wrote: »

I would have thought Burns starting was absolutely fair enough?

Two big strike runners outside him. He's the ideal call to have them coming onto the ball at pace on the gain line against Georgia. The two lads will benefit far more from being outside him.

thomond2006

Healy and Porter, if they play next week, will return to Leinster for two European games having been involved in four consecutive matches for Ireland.

Leinster will have to leave them out of Europe surely?

Iamabeliever

Niallof9 wrote: »

who said anything about changing the whole squad? this will be a 50 point win and we'll be no better in cohesion. Mainly cause Sexton is the 10 till he retires. So bang there goes one part of the grand plan. Earls isn't that big a deal if you want to get him back in. I agree with maybe 4/5 changes. I mean thats the point with Keenan. He was tried, he did ok. Now why and how does he suddenly become an automatic starter. SUddenly he'll be on 20 caps and those calling for a Daly or whoever wwill be told...well Hugo has 20 caps now you can't be dropping him..its the constant narrative of Irish Rugby. Sure might as well get the ink dry on those central deals for Keenan and COnnors. Those two European games have really stood them in stead. There's absolutely no reason Daly or whoever can't be tried like Keenan was with Italy. Irish rugby at times is utterly bizarre and a sort of never ending self fulfilling prophecy. And there's enough cheerleaders on here and in print which means all criticism is banished. People like Andy Dunne are quacks and the word 2018 is thrown about at will.

Why not give Keenan a run in a team. Would you prefer to try every winger in Ireland just to try them out. No one is an immediate success on there first couple of caps. Even Stockdale needed a summer in USA. Keenan could become the once a year cap like mccloskey.

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

Habana was still scoring against the all blacks in Sept 2016.

And as for missing the point...... Whoosh!!

I think you are both wrong. Everyone knows that international wingers are over the hill once they reach 27.

Niallof9

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Why not give Keenan a run in a team. Would you prefer to try every winger in Ireland just to try them out. No one is an immediate success on there first couple of caps. Even Stockdale needed a summer in USA. Keenan could become the once a year cap like mccloskey.

But he's had that run. I like Keenan he has something about him. I hope he bangs in a hatrick, but he's just an example of the weird way Irish rugby goes about its business. He played his first European game in Sept. But now yeah i reckon you'll see him become a mainstay for no real reason other than he had a good game against Italy, solid against Wales. And yeah i wouldn't be shocked if he suddenly gets a central deal while Conway or whoever is left pissing in the wind. I'm sorry i just don't get it at times. I'm hardly the only one if you go by the reaction elsewhere. On here, yeah its crazy talk.

shootermacg

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think you are both wrong. Everyone knows that international wingers are over the hill once they reach 27.

Another loss and that might get a bit lower in NZ

Niallof9

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/shane-horgan-andy-farrell-ireland-454327

hard to disagree with this

Iamabeliever

Niallof9 wrote: »

But he's had that run. I like Keenan he has something about him. I hope he bangs in a hatrick, but he's just an example of the weird way Irish rugby goes about its business. He played his first European game in Sept. But now yeah i reckon you'll see him become a mainstay for no real reason other than he had a good game against Italy, solid against Wales. And yeah i wouldn't be shocked if he suddenly gets a central deal while Conway or whoever is left pissing in the wind.

I don’t rate Keenan as a player but if a manager has made a decision to hand a first cap out and have that player play the biggest game of the year than he should certainly be given time in that jersey. Keenan is no where near Conway. That’s just my opionion.

Niallof9

Iamabeliever wrote: »

I don’t rate Keenan as a player but if a manager has made a decision to hand a first cap out and have that player play the biggest game of the year than he should certainly be given time in that jersey. Keenan is no where near Conway. That’s just my opionion.

yeah i get your point. i can understand that part of it. its true a player can need a run at it. I'm not talking about bombing him out, i just think this is part of what can happen here in Ireland. You get a few games and then suddenly you find yourself in the inner sanctum. Like McFadden, was kind of in that group, a very good pro and was the go to guy even out of form. Conway needs just as much gametime as Keenan imo. And Keenan is being used as a counterpoint to say look he's not conservative etc...this will be his 5th start. Conway has only got a bout 24 caps. Its not about saying he's conservative. Farrell's not bold enough imo. and he'll end up paying the price as Horgan saids.

Iamabeliever

molloyjh wrote: »

Some disappointing elements to that selection, but predictably the general reaction here is OTT.

At loose head we are paying the price for a shortsighted squad selection a few weeks back. Having only 2 LHs in the squad was always a risk. That has now come back to bite us in both prop positions. We have to move 1 TH over to LH, leaving us with only 2 THs available. And obviously Ryan is simply not rated, meaning we're flogging Porter. What that means for next weeks selection I dont know. EOS will only have been in camp a day or two so not too surprised he isn't involved. For me the error here was not getting him in sooner.

Not too bothered by our hooker or lock selections for the most part, although I'd have started Roux here instead of Ryan just to manage the latters game time some. Although after last week maybe Ryan needs to get back on the horse and develop his partnership with Henderson. Not too much in this though.

In the back row we've capped a few guys this year so ultimately this game shouldn't be about new guys, but instead about managing game time. No complaints there as a result.

At half-backs Burns needed to start and Murray alongside him probably gives him the best chance to make his case so all good there.

In the centre, this was really the only selection we could make. I do think we need to start looking at a more like for like replacement for Ringrose at 13, which is tough on Farrell, but we need a bit more creativity in the centre and Farrell doesn't bring that. I dont know if Hume is worth a look, but we need to make some sort of change there going forward.

In the back 3, Stockdale has a load of potential at FB so giving him more time there was a must. With Lowe and Conway injured we were always going to have one of Keenan or Daly out there. Meaning we needed a steady hand too. Ideally that would have been Conway, but Earls will do I've no real issue with that selection at all tbh.

The big issue for me here is the initial squad selection with only 1 LH. It has caused is real issues now in the front row for this week and next plus for Leinster in Europe. Other than that some minor quibbles but overall nothing of any real note. We have to remember we're missing quite a few players so that's going to make selections over the course of this tournament that bit more tricky.

Hume is not a creative force and plays more like a 12 but Stuart Moore can be a future Ireland 13 I think. Very exciting player

Niallof9

Niallof9 wrote: »

But he's had that run. I like Keenan he has something about him. I hope he bangs in a hatrick, but he's just an example of the weird way Irish rugby goes about its business. He played his first European game in Sept. But now yeah i reckon you'll see him become a mainstay for no real reason other than he had a good game against Italy, solid against Wales. And yeah i wouldn't be shocked if he suddenly gets a central deal while Conway or whoever is left pissing in the wind. I'm sorry i just don't get it at times. I'm hardly the only one if you go by the reaction elsewhere. On here, yeah its crazy talk.

This "woe is me" attitude is tiring. Plenty of people are criticising this selection.

Niallof9

Deleted User wrote: »

This "woe is me" attitude is tiring. Plenty of people are criticising this selection.

No i don't think there is. On balance it looks like many are accepting and understanding of it. which is never a surprise really.

TRC10

Niallof9 wrote: »

But he's had that run. I like Keenan he has something about him. I hope he bangs in a hatrick, but he's just an example of the weird way Irish rugby goes about its business. He played his first European game in Sept. But now yeah i reckon you'll see him become a mainstay for no real reason other than he had a good game against Italy, solid against Wales. And yeah i wouldn't be shocked if he suddenly gets a central deal while Conway or whoever is left pissing in the wind. I'm sorry i just don't get it at times. I'm hardly the only one if you go by the reaction elsewhere. On here, yeah its crazy talk.

So what are you saying? Keenan should have been dropped after his two try debut v Italy?

CMcsporty

1 debut for Ireland off the bench

11 debuts in one match for France

https://twitter.com/murray_kinsella/status/1331913572151152640?s=21

Dog Botherer

who exactly is calling for Hugo bloody Keenan to get a central contract and where can i get a prescription for the stuff he's on?

Dog Botherer

CMcsporty wrote: »

1 debut for Ireland off the bench

11 debuts in one match for France

https://twitter.com/murray_kinsella/status/1331913572151152640?s=21

how many pro players are there in France as opposed to Ireland? seems relevant. as does the fact that France have won the last two Junior World Cups and have approximately 50 insanely talented freaks that they're going to be capping over the next few years.

clsmooth

Niallof9 wrote: »

No i don't think there is. On balance it looks like many are accepting and understanding of it. which is never a surprise really.

There’s two ways of disagreeing with something. The adult way of putting yourself into Farrell’s head and asking why he’s playing certain players, and the childish way of throwing a strop and going down the #worstselectionever pathway when you have absolutely no skin in the game. I’m sure we’d all pick different teams but as with all things, there’s a balance. No point throwing random players together when you’re trying to build an identity. The old baby with the bath water analogy rings through.

Niallof9

clsmooth wrote: »

There’s two ways of disagreeing with something. The adult way of putting yourself into Farrell’s head and asking why he’s playing certain players, and the childish way of throwing a strop and going down the #worstselectionever pathway when you have absolutely no skin in the game. I’m sure we’d all pick different teams but as with all things, there’s a balance. No point throwing random players together when you’re trying to build an identity. The old baby with the bath water analogy rings through.

yeah as i've suggested a balance, but no you don't accept or acknowledge that of course. Who is saying anything about random players? and what identity are you referring to. besides the bath water was Farrell himself. after a shocking World cup he should have gone or been kept where he was. Its a shocking selection and defend it any way you like. Its the beginning of the end i think.

the baby bull elephant

CMcsporty wrote: »

1 debut for Ireland off the bench

11 debuts in one match for France

https://twitter.com/murray_kinsella/status/1331913572151152640?s=21

The FFR has an agreement with the clubs and players are only allowed play so many matches over this period.

Niallof9

Dog Botherer wrote: »

how many pro players are there in France as opposed to Ireland? seems relevant. as does the fact that France have won the last two Junior World Cups and have approximately 50 insanely talented freaks that they're going to be capping over the next few years.

as do we. not as many but there's a solid crop. All of the people that are mentioned on here as talents will be capped, most likely in the next 12 months. why he didn't try to spread it out more and do it sooner is anyones guess. he won't get another chance for some time. madness. sure maybe its the Fiji game he'll do it. Or the Italy one. I mean no need to panic, lets take that approach. People said wait for the georgia game and here we are - practically a near full strength side against a team that got pumped by Italy.