Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

AudreyHepburn

I can’t understand all the negativity - ok the 6 Nations was a disaster and Japan shocked us all but that doesn’t suddenly make us a poor team nor does it mean we’re not capable of taking on the best and beating them - we’ve done it twice before, a fact which everyone seems determined to either forget or ignore.

I really think we have a chance next Saturday if we can replicate what we did in Chicago and Dublin.

snotboogie

Aidric wrote: »

Shot to nothing scenario which is where Ireland tend to thrive. This All Blacks side is nowhere near vintage. They are capable of capitalizing on mistakes which works wonders against a side like SA showing their hand after a quarter of the game. Against a disciplined rigorous side like Ireland the breaks shouldn't be so forthcoming.

Schmidt is the most intelligent coach in world rugby and he has flushed NZ twice in recent years. If he pulled it off for a third time I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised.

Schmidt is not the most intelligent coach in World Rugby, he was an excellent club coach and has had a decent international career. Like Gatland, his 6 nations record has been very much helped by the complete capitulation of French Rugby. We play an abc limited game with, what is at least from an Irish perspective, a very talented group of players. Schmidt at World Cups has been a disappointment, he's 2 and 2 against competitive opposition and at that the list isn't that impressive: France, Argentina, Scotland and Japan, you'd expect the smartest coach in the world to be batting better than 500 against that lineup. You can't question his record against the All Blacks though, he has played NZ above and beyond any other Irish manager and at a time when they were at their absolute pomp too. Saturday will end up defining his tenure, lose and he'll be remembered as the guy who got two cracks at the World Cup and was undone by Argentina and Japan.

irishbucsfan

snotboogie wrote: »

Schmidt is not the most intelligent coach in World Rugby, he was an excellent club coach and has had a decent international career. Like Gatland, his 6 nations record has been very much helped by the complete capitulation of French Rugby. We play an abc limited game with, what is at least from an Irish perspective, a very talented group of players. Schmidt at World Cups has been a disappointment, he's 2 and 2 against competitive opposition and at that the list isn't that impressive: France, Argentina, Scotland and Japan, you'd expect the smartest coach in the world to be batting better than 500 against that lineup. You can't question his record against the All Blacks though, he has played NZ above and beyond any other Irish manager and at a time when they were at their absolute pomp too. Saturday will end up defining his tenure, lose and he'll be remembered as the guy who got two cracks at the World Cup and was undone by Argentina and Japan.

He may only be decent at international level, but he's been by far the best we've had.

If there's a load of better coaches out there for us to hire we're surely in for a hell of a next few years

riddles

I would like to see a glimmer of light but the best we can hope for is heroic defeat at best against NZ. Anything under 10 pats losing margin would be decent. Sad end for Joe in fairness but he has been great and a true gentleman man. I think finally it might begin to drop where the 6 nations and autumn internationals are relative to the WC. Today Japan have matched Ireland’s best performance at a WC.

Rockbeast2

"Saturday will end up defining his tenure"

LOL

Eh, no, it most certainly will not.

joseywhales

P.Walnuts wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

Joking aside, I hope there are no red cards, win or lose, I want a game to wipe away the memories of the last two 1/4 finals, with at least a heroic performance, I will be thrilled with that.

Being thrilled with a losing performance....nah

I could take bring proud of the team, but I definitely won't be thrilled with any kind of loss

It's the old adage, you can control performance but not result. If they play at peak performance , good chance they'll win anyway

snotboogie

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He may only be decent at international level, but he's been by far the best we've had.

If there's a load of better coaches out there for us to hire we're surely in for a hell of a next few years

I was just responding to the "most intelligent coach in the world" claim.

snotboogie

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

"Saturday will end up defining his tenure"

LOL

Eh, no, it most certainly will not.

Amongst the hardcore "in Joe we trust" Gerry Thornelys of the world it won't but among most it will. He's had four years to change up his extremely limited game plan, he stuck to his guns and ended up getting caught out by a tier two side. Like I said, he's played New Zealand exelently and I wouldn't rule out Ireland yet but if we whimper out the Japan game is his legacy.

Bazzo

ClanofLams wrote: »

Ireland have flown in solicitor to represent Bundee Aki at Monday’s hearing Murray Kinsey’s reports. Doubt it will do much good but worth a go I guess.

Apparently Steve Jackson said after the match that the Samoan team would do whatever they could to try to prevent Aki from getting a suspension.

sxt

After the NZ South Africa game a few weeks go, most posters were saying they believed Ireland had a better chance against NZ
Has something changed since?

Podge_irl

Bazzo wrote: »

Apparently Steve Jackson said after the match that the Samoan team would do whatever they could to try to prevent Aki from getting a suspension.

Which is very sporting of them, but ultimately won't help. 2 weeks at least incoming.

Podge_irl

riddles wrote: »

I would like to see a glimmer of light but the best we can hope for is heroic defeat at best against NZ.

Literally not true.

Shefwedfan

sxt wrote: »

After the NZ South Africa game a few weeks go, most posters were saying they believed Ireland had a better chance against NZ
Has something changed since?

From minute to minute things chnage on this forum.....everything has to be negative

Shefwedfan

NZ press have started their PR campaign to make sure they hate the Irish team


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rugby-world-cup-2019/2019/10/rugby-world-cup-2019-ex-ireland-forward-neil-francis-scathing-attack-on-the-all-blacks-says-they-cheat-with-impunity.html

We should tell them no need to bother, our own fans are doing a great job all on their own

mfceiling

We're playing New Zealand. Before we had Schmidt as a coach this was 100% an All Black win.
Now?

Shefwedfan

snotboogie wrote: »

Schmidt is not the most intelligent coach in World Rugby, he was an excellent club coach and has had a decent international career. Like Gatland, his 6 nations record has been very much helped by the complete capitulation of French Rugby. We play an abc limited game with, what is at least from an Irish perspective, a very talented group of players. Schmidt at World Cups has been a disappointment, he's 2 and 2 against competitive opposition and at that the list isn't that impressive: France, Argentina, Scotland and Japan, you'd expect the smartest coach in the world to be batting better than 500 against that lineup. You can't question his record against the All Blacks though, he has played NZ above and beyond any other Irish manager and at a time when they were at their absolute pomp too. Saturday will end up defining his tenure, lose and he'll be remembered as the guy who got two cracks at the World Cup and was undone by Argentina and Japan.

Sorry but rugby fans will remember Joe for the two HC wins for Leinster, the Amlin and Pro 12 wins also....a time when Leinster played the best attacking club rugby in the World

Irish rugby fans will remember the 3 6 nations in 6 years including an incredible Grand Slam when Ireland broke all records....also a win on SA soil, a tour win in Argentina and Australia....tour win in Japan as well

Plus two wins v NZ.....Chicago my personal favourite

Also got ireland to number 1 in World, maybe briefly but we have been in top 4 for a sustained number of years

Also coach with highest win ratio ever for Ireland

Thank you Joe....hopefully more glory to come

Happy4all

Any good pubs or hotels in Dublin to watch the game on Saturday?

Squidgy Black

mfceiling wrote: »

We're playing New Zealand. Before we had Schmidt as a coach this was 100% an All Black win.
Now?

Before Schmidt you would've been absolutely laughed at if you mentioned there was even a chance of Ireland being within 7 points of the All Blacks, the game in 2012 where we came within 2 points was at the time seen as the high point of Kidney's time as Ireland coach, and people were in disbelief. We then got hockeyed 60-0 the following week. You then have to go back to 1992, 10 games back, for the next occasion we got within 7 points and again the following week lost 59-3.

In the 4 times Schmidt's Ireland have faced New Zealand, we have 2 wins, both by 7 points or more, a 2 point loss due to an 82nd minute try, and a 12 point loss.

Sanjuro

Shefwedfan wrote: »

NZ press have started their PR campaign to make sure they hate the Irish team


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rugby-world-cup-2019/2019/10/rugby-world-cup-2019-ex-ireland-forward-neil-francis-scathing-attack-on-the-all-blacks-says-they-cheat-with-impunity.html

We should tell them no need to bother, our own fans are doing a great job all on their own

The first mistake they made there is presuming anyone pays attention to Neil Francis.

Shefwedfan

Sanjuro wrote: »

The first mistake they made there is presuming anyone pays attention to Neil Francis.

Next they will be quoting Ewan McKenna

BoardsMember

I may be grasping at straws here, but is there merit in thinking that NZ, at the end of their season, and with 2 weeks and no game, might be slightly undercooked? I am hopeful....

The Rape of Lucretia

snotboogie wrote: »

Schmidt is not the most intelligent coach in World Rugby.

I'm sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Joe's rugby IQ has been tested as close to 200. That's in a bracket with the likes of Goethe and daVinci. Nobody is even close to Joe in rugby brain power. The computations he is doing before games to study the opposition, and most spectacularly, in real time during games, is truly astonishing. Apparently, not only does he sees moves that are going to happen 5-6 minutes before they do, he knows EXACTLY how it will turn out. Statistical analyses show that Joe is worth 9-10 points per game to the Ireland team if the had the exact same players and any other coach in the world. And truly impressive, this Joe-bonus goes UP the higher the oppositions world ranking. Mind blowing.
Those are the facts.

Squidgy Black

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Joe's rugby IQ has been tested as close to 200. That's in a bracket with the likes of Goethe and daVinci. Nobody is even close to Joe in rugby brain power. The computations he is doing before games to study the opposition, and most spectacularly, in real time during games, is truly astonishing. Apparently, not only does he sees moves that are going to happen 5-6 minutes before they do, he knows EXACTLY how it will turn out. Statistical analyses show that Joe is worth 9-10 points per game to the Ireland team if the had the exact same players and any other coach in the world. And truly impressive, this Joe-bonus goes UP the higher the oppositions world ranking. Mind blowing.
Those are the facts.

I heard Joe's a member of Mensa also, and rumour has it he's been spotted around Firhouse near the Scientology headquarters.

Jump_In_Jack

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

From BBC, on Aki:

The centre's fate will be decided at a hearing in Tokyo on Monday (11:30 BST) following his straight red card for a tackle direct to the head of Samoan fly-half Ulupano Seuteni.

The fact that Seuteni went off for a HIA and didn’t return is probably going to be the deciding factor.

bilston

mfceiling wrote: »

We're playing New Zealand. Before we had Schmidt as a coach this was 100% an All Black win.
Now?

If you'd ask me three years ago I'd have said we have no chance. Since then we've beaten them twice in 2016 and 2018 and a few of our players beat them in NZ in 2017 as well. I'd say we now have at least a 25% shot.

This team is still capable of one off big performances and I expect one next weekend. Will it be enough? It might be.

However NZ will be ready for us, so we will have to be at a level even higher than the game last November. The good news is that Murray and Sexton are hitting a bit of form.

Rockbeast2

We're into 7/2. lads.

I may have put a few on at 4/1, but probably not enough to shift those odds.

The Kiwi-munchers are worried!

Rockbeast2

See you next Saturday, guys.

It Couldn’t Be Done
BY EDGAR ALBERT GUEST

Somebody said that it couldn’t be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it!

Somebody scoffed: “Oh, you’ll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it;”
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat
And the first thing we knew he’d begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
That “cannot be done,” and you’ll do it.

vetinari

snotboogie wrote: »

Amongst the hardcore "in Joe we trust" Gerry Thornelys of the world it won't but among most it will. He's had four years to change up his extremely limited game plan, he stuck to his guns and ended up getting caught out by a tier two side. Like I said, he's played New Zealand exelently and I wouldn't rule out Ireland yet but if we whimper out the Japan game is his legacy.

Christ, I'd like our gameplan to be better too but this is pure nonsense stuff.
Are you confusing Ireland's rugby history with England or New Zealand?
He's by FAR our most successful coach. No one is close to him.
That's what he will be remembered for.
It'd be great if we play well at least on Saturday but it won't define his legacy if we lose.

phog

mfceiling wrote: »

We're playing New Zealand. Before we had Schmidt as a coach this was 100% an All Black win.
Now?

80% All Black win - the wins we had over them are hardly even worth the 20% I'm giving Ireland but on a given day with us performing to our best then we have a chance.

Niallof9

Look we know we can beat them and yes Joe Schmidt is the reason for that despite my criticism. His tactics tend to frustrate a team like New Zealand. You can suck them into an arm wrestle as they try to play both ways, up front, pick and jams, with width, with offloads and now they kick a bit . Say when it was perceived they had a weak-ish scrum they go out to prove that wrong or try and beast your pack if questioned or if you try to get the upper hand there. japan will always play the free flowing game and box smart not necessarily winning the right to go wide...perfect ala Munster's Pennyball. So i think if there is a weakness its that new zealand maybe have lost their ruthlessness or smarts when playing teams like Ireland. They definitely respect us more, the days of not knowing players or talking down is gone i think. I know mates of Shane Jennings and i heard after one of the tests even though he was extra man he had to go in and ask for one of the new caps to get a jersey after he was refused, just a general lack of respect before (Jenning's is that type of guy)

I'm criticised for using the term Joeball, fair enough, but i'll admit its the perfect plan for New Zealand. So i know i'm eating into my own argument. My criticism extended to other things though like the confusion around Fullback, Best, a few players seemingly undroppable, Kleyn.

I had a dream that it was all a ruse and we shocked them. Sexton on fire, moves unleashed, henshaw's injury faked, looking undercooked on purpose.

But the very reason some of us are worried is not that Ireland are not the one of old or crap or anything like that. Its because our form has fallen off a cliff and as we saw with Scotland are they really any use? So the last time we performed really well in a pivotal test apart from perhaps France was against New Zealand (not counting those warm ups)

So nobody is trying to be hyper critical and we all want a win.

Schmidt has done it twice, with both wins securing his legacy, more so than the grand slam imo.

We can definitely do it. We all know though New Zealand can do to us what they did to France in 2015. We need the best week of our lives. We need to tap every emotional resource we have. This is it for many of the lads, definitely World Cup wise. As Les Kiss said of POC's injury in 2015 he was such a warrior on his injury it was best for a warrior to go out out on their own shield as he did. None of the players can go out like damp squibs and with all the planning, prep and emotion the brainless bashing pick and jam plays we have seen over the last 12 months cannot be it. As EOS pointed out Conor Murray doesn't break anymore, like in Chicago. That has to be a ruse. IF not and thats all there is i don't know what to say really.

No criticism this week myself included we need all energy to be positive. Murray mentioned on RTE that some stuff does seep through from family, journos demeanor etc.

Its a huge ask, the turnarounds dont help, but maybe the All Blacks are undercooked.

What will annoy me if there is no moves and we get the valiant defeat people will shrug and move on. But we'd really need to admit to ourselves we fupped up against Japan. South Africa are vastly overrated. A good side, not a great one. I think we had their number.

We're playing the World Champions if that was part of the plan and ruse, I'll doff my cap to Schmidt. But if it was all set up for the Saffers well then this is up there with our gravest errors. Yet people are accepting defeat now to countries like Japan. Like the old days but now with minnows. That pisses me off.

pc7

Anything can happen Saturday and it would be amazing to beat them, I can't think of anything better in Rugby terms (well besides winning the whole thing).
Straw poll, if you were given 100,000 to bet on who would win, what way would you come down on it if cold hard cash was on the line. I think in my head I'd lean to NZ but I feel we have a performance in us, if things line up, people are sharp, ref is on point, that we can do it. So I think I would go with my heart and put it on us! (Good thing I don't gamble!).

Maybe its blind optimism (or hope), but I just feel its setting things up for the perfect send off for Joe and a few of the players. Come on Ireland!

Wegians89

Leaving than a year ago we beat these lads. I don’t think they’ve improved greatly since than, grant neither have Ireland. If Murray and Sexton are on top form, there’s a very good chance of a win. Can’t afford to pick up any injuries during the week though.

If Ireland play 100% to their potential no doubt they can beat anyone, it’s just they’ve been playing at 50-65% so far.

evil_seed

Where's all this optimism coming from?

pc7

evil_seed wrote: »

Where's all this optimism coming from?

I don't know Usually I can be nervous that Italy will beat us in the 6N that's how unoptimistic I can be! But feck it going to enjoy the ride this week.

Bridge93

Early days to be predicting i know but over 11mm of rain expected in Tokyo on Saturday afternoon.

aloooof

Tough ask ahead of us but it would make it all the sweeter if we can somehow manage to get a win.

For those saying we haven't a chance, I really don't see where that is coming from. We've played NZ 4 times in Schmidt's tenure and we've won twice and lost twice. The aggregate score is 87-83 in our favour. They've all been extremely competitive matches, but we've put in a performance and been in contention in all of them.

NZ are clear favourites, but we've proven in the past that on our day, we can match and better them.

Fornevermore

Surely this management team have something up their sleeves for this game. We haven't shown anything this year to indicate we'll get close to New Zealand. We should be playing South Africa on Sunday, that can't be forgotten but if we go out meekly then this management teams reputation will be in tatters. That Farrell is the next head coach doesn't bode well. As I say though, we must have something planned for this quarter final.

Niallof9

Fornevermore wrote: »

Surely this management team have something up their sleeves for this game. We haven't shown anything this year to indicate we'll get close to New Zealand. We should be playing South Africa on Sunday, that can't be forgotten but if we go out meekly then this management teams reputation will be in tatters. That Farrell is the next head coach doesn't bode well. As I say though, we must have something planned for this quarter final.

Eddie O'Sullivan rightly pointed out how Murray doesn't threaten the fringes in any way like he did in Chicago. This surely is a sign that we have been holding something back. We're definitely kicking grubbers through in the 22 more. Two tries so far doing it.

If we go out like a damp squib serious questions need to be asked of Any Farrell and the hasty appointment of Mike Catt.

But I think we will go out with a real plan and go out on our shields if it is defeat. I can't see any other way. Its Bests, Earls, Kearney, Sexton's last world cup. Joe's last roll of the dice.

accensi0n

We should do loads of mad stuff. Don't form rucks ala Italy against England, 13 man lineouts, loads of dinks in behind, reverse chips, Murray snipe loads, loads of drop goal attempts, deliberate passes to the head and headbutt them on for the regather by others running through.
Really throw NZ off.

pc7

What time (Irish) is Bundees hearing?

LostArt

accensi0n wrote: »

We should do loads of mad stuff. Don't form rucks ala Italy against England, 13 man lineouts, loads of dinks in behind, reverse chips, Murray snipe loads, loads of drop goal attempts, deliberate passes to the head and headbutt them on for the regather by others running through.
Really throw NZ off.

Wish I could thank this more than once

jammiedodgers

pc7 wrote: »

What time (Irish) is Bundees hearing?

I think I heard on radio it started at 11.30am our time this morning.

prawnsambo

accensi0n wrote: »

We should do loads of mad stuff. Don't form rucks ala Italy against England, 13 man lineouts, loads of dinks in behind, reverse chips, Murray snipe loads, loads of drop goal attempts, deliberate passes to the head and headbutt them on for the regather by others running through.
Really throw NZ off.

Unfortunately that option isn't open to us any more since they changed the ruck laws after Italy made England look like fools. More's the pity.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1183709406963195904?s=19

Shefwedfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

If we go out like a damp squib serious questions need to be asked of Any Farrell and the hasty appointment of Mike Catt.

But I think we will go out with a real plan and go out on our shields if it is defeat. I can't see any other way. Its Bests, Earls, Kearney, Sexton's last world cup. Joe's last roll of the dice.

How was Mike Catt appointment hasty?

Shefwedfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1183709406963195904?s=19

No figrolls? we are f**ked

kilns

Same team as Saturday except Ringrose for Bundee?

No way POM should get back in the team and Larmour offers more than Kearney considering the All Blacks wont be kicking to space that much

kilns

kilns wrote: »

Same team as Saturday except Ringrose for Bundee?

No way POM should get back in the team and Larmour offers more than Kearney considering the All Blacks wont be kicking to space that much

If Larmour is at fullback, they 100% will. He will be put under major pressure.

Niallof9

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How was Mike Catt appointment hasty?

We could have waited till after the World Cup and let the dust settle. A ridiculous appointment imo. Has shown nothing to get excited about. But obviously Farrell is appointing people he trusts. Fair enough. Hopefully it all works out on Saturday so we don't get off on the wrong foot.

Wegians89

Niallof9 wrote: »

We could have waited till after the World Cup and let the dust settle. A ridiculous appointment imo. Has shown nothing to get excited about. But obviously Farrell is appointing people he trusts. Fair enough. Hopefully it all works out on Saturday so we don't get off on the wrong foot.

Italy look like they want to throw the ball around a bit more and their attack does look improved. The quality of player their mightn’t be the best though so can expect even more from Catts Ireland