Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

JJJackal

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I never understood that decision by Schmidt, Byrne had no chance v England....the pack got murdered, everyone got murdered and byrne was trying to fix it, was he the only player on the pitch that day who didn’t go to the WC?

Joe just didn’t seem to like him, not sure why because Byrne was a player that suited Ireland style

Ultimately carty, byrne and sexton should have gone to WC in light of carberys injury.

Carberys injury profile isnt helped if he is not allowed time to recover

Burkie1203

leakyboots wrote: »

Leinster young gun goes well - boards rugby: PARACHUTE HIM INTO THE IRELAND STARTING LINEUP

Remember when Munster fans were declaring Dave Foley and Duncan Casey the form players who should be starting for Ireland

Or when Billy Holland was the best player to hold tackle bags in training blah blah

tryagain

What can we change to start performing when it matters beaten by Japan in this world cup clipping Italy by 3 in last world cup and the massive build up of or great players starts again in media .The players must to start keeping feet on ground they r good but not good enough when it counts apart from James Lowe and Kelleher at sportsground last night the rest will not help you get to world cup semi am afraid its the stark reality we aint got the players and the ones we do have we build them up to much. We need to refocus on the way we play .

P.Walnuts

Dubinusa wrote: »

Not sure why people think so little? of Ross Byrne.
He's an accomplished 10. He's won silverware and is the closest style to Sexton. Maybe he's not the answer,right now, but he is a good player.
I think he can be a positive player/ influence on the national team!

In what way is Byrne's style close to Sexton?

blinding

tryagain wrote: »

What can we change to start performing when it matters beaten by Japan in this world cup clipping Italy by 3 in last world cup and the massive build up of or great players starts again in media .The players must to start keeping feet on ground they r good but not good enough when it counts apart from James Lowe and Kelleher at sportsground last night the rest will not help you get to world cup semi am afraid its the stark reality we aint got the players and the ones we do have we build them up to much. We need to refocus on the way we play .

As we have a lot of Japanese sized players . Maybe we should steal the successful sides of their game plan .

Dubinusa

P.Walnuts wrote: »

In what way is Byrne's style close to Sexton?

He knows the Leinster system. His kicking is good and he shows great control. Leinster rarely lose a beat with him playing. He can manage the team, in fact , I sometimes forget who's at 10 as Leinster look seamless.
Obviously, he trains with Sexton and although he doesn't approach the gainline or is not as flat as Sexton he is quite comfortable. His defense is very good like Sexton and his passing imo, is very good.
Unlike Carberry and Carty who are better athletes than Sexton and Byrne,he manages the team, without being spectacular. Which is similar to Sexton, Sexton is not one to make breaks like Carty or Carberry. Byrne plays to his strength and is still improving, whereas,Carberry rarely looks he's controlling the game. Similar to Carty who can make incredible plays,but can't seem to manage the team.
Byrne like Sexton,plays the territory brilliantly and I think he's a calming affect for his teammates.
I believe he's a lesser type of Sexton and would function well in JS's gameplan.

Hands Like Flippers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Jackson will never return. Simple as that

It would be a PR nightmare and just look at the plonkers trying to protest when he wasn’t even playing in Munster game this season

Ireland have
Sexton - 2 years left
Carbery - young but having injury issues
Byrne - solid player but I wouldn’t see him as the starting 10 in a WC semi
Carty - no comment
Burns - showing decent so far this season
H Byrne - first season but looks the real deal

Ulster have young 10 starting today who they say is good
The u20 has a Munster 10 who played well for the Geand Slam

So all in we have some exceptional talent and I probably forgot a few.

LI have weathered the storm re Jackson. He is the obvious candidate.

jacothelad

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

LI have weathered the storm re Jackson. He is the obvious candidate.

I doubt if the IRFU would ever permit Jackson to play here again but if they asked I'm just as sure he would tell them where to stick it.

Hands Like Flippers

jacothelad wrote: »

I doubt if the IRFU would ever permit Jackson to play here again but if they asked I'm just as sure he would tell them where to stick it.

Aye. Maybe.

Squidgy Black

I'd rather not have to listen to the media shítstorm that'd be brought upon us if Paddy was back in the Irish setup.

It never really kicked off in England other than the couple of sponsors who walked away from LI, but it'd be a different ball game altogether in Ireland. Look at the vitriol some of the media have for Irish rugby as it is, and those clowns trying to arrange a protest for the Munster friendly.

Former Former

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

LI have weathered the storm re Jackson. He is the obvious candidate.

This is 100% not correct. He will never play for Ireland again and I doubt he is under any illusion to the contrary.

Former Former

I see Jackson is playing at FB for Irish tomorrow. That's an odd one.

sydthebeat

Former Former wrote: »

I see Jackson is playing at FB for Irish tomorrow. That's an odd one.

And noel Reid at 10 for Leicester.... Gwan noel!

blinding

Former Former wrote: »

I see Jackson is playing at FB for Irish tomorrow. That's an odd one.

Have they a better Flyhalf ?

Squidgy Black

Former Former wrote: »

I see Jackson is playing at FB for Irish tomorrow. That's an odd one.

Played there last week against Sarries too.

He's currently sharing game time with Myler at 10, they both got two starts in the premiership cup and Paddy's had two starts at 10 for the first two league games and now Myler's taken over and Paddy's gone to 15.

Former Former

blinding wrote: »

Have they a better Flyhalf ?

Well, Stephen Myler is playing 10. What that means in terms of the pecking order, I'm not sure

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

Well, Stephen Myler is playing 10. What that means in terms of the pecking order, I'm not sure

Myler is one of their 700 captains so I'd say that edges some selection decisions in his favour

Shefwedfan

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/england-centre-marchant-to-make-super-rugby-switch-in-ground-breaking-move/

This is what the Irish clubs should be doing, saying if for years now

thomond2006

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/england-centre-marchant-to-make-super-rugby-switch-in-ground-breaking-move/

This is what the Irish clubs should be doing, saying if for years now

It would be tricky for players at academy level who are usually at university at the same time.

Someone like Bill Johnston could have benefitted from a year away instead of sitting as 4th choice at Munster.

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

It would be tricky for players at academy level who are usually at university at the same time.

A break year is available, a year off to play in Aus or NZ would be exceptional experience even if they dropped out of rugby

Squidgy Black

Worked out well for Gavin Thornbury over in Wanganui

Paul Smeenus

tryagain wrote: »

What can we change to start performing when it matters beaten by Japan in this world cup clipping Italy by 3 in last world cup and the massive build up of or great players starts again in media .The players must to start keeping feet on ground they r good but not good enough when it counts apart from James Lowe and Kelleher at sportsground last night the rest will not help you get to world cup semi am afraid its the stark reality we aint got the players and the ones we do have we build them up to much. We need to refocus on the way we play .

Very interesting article by Darren Cave recently, talking about how when other teams prepare for the RWC, they are benefitting from the same top-down, "international-team-comes-first" approach that Ireland have all the time, but that the the likes of England wouldn't have during the Six Nations. So that gives other teams a life and a coherence they don't normally have.

He also made a point about the Ireland team being out of their comfort zone being away from home at a RWC. During training at Carlton house, half the players are sleeping in their own beds every night. If they go to New Zealand or Japan or France to play in a RWC, there's more upheaval. Dunno how pertinent, but did think it was a nuts-and-bolts observation that I wouldn't have considered, from someone in the know.

flatface

While I do think we need to freshen up I don’t think the RWC performance was down to personnel.
it felt when NZ smashed us, then Eng smashed them the SA out performed them again that there was a huge gulf between us and them in skills and performance, tactics etc. That could be the case, but it could also be very close between all the teams and little things sway the difference on the day giving a huge swing.

The mental aspects of the game play such a huge part. I watch a lot of snooker and golf and at the top level all the players are capable of unbelievably good scores. It is much more of a mental wrestle to win than just skills.

Are there any good sports psychology books on rugby? I would be interested in reading some good accessible ones. Its interesting in a team sport where you can lift each other or hurt the team spirit with mistakes. It must be so hard as a forward to wrestle for possession to see the ball lost cheaply again and try pick yourself up to keep battling.
Early momentum, team spirit, form confidence, opposition mistakes and the bounce of the ball all play a huge part in the winning of the game.

The RWC games were won by the better teams on the day with the biggest hunger for the win and ferocious effort to wrestle the game away from the opposition. We are very capable of this, but we really didn’t see this in Japan. We seemed to pace ourselves all wrong and never really come out fighting with all our might.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Worked out well for Gavin Thornbury over in Wanganui

So try it once and not a huge success and never try again......but short sighted ?

Wegians89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So try it once and not a huge success and never try again......but short sighted ?

Gavin thornburys move was a success. He went from no professional future to being very close to being capped by Ireland. Not sure if he was already in international camps or if he was injured but Schmidt name checked him last Christmas

Shefwedfan

Wegians89 wrote: »

Gavin thornburys move was a success. He went from no professional future to being very close to being capped by Ireland. Not sure if he was already in international camps or if he was injured but Schmidt name checked him last Christmas

Hence why I said not a huge success....eg it was a success

Huge success would be named on international starter

sydthebeat

Wegians89 wrote: »

Gavin thornburys move was a success. He went from no professional future to being very close to being capped by Ireland. Not sure if he was already in international camps or if he was injured but Schmidt name checked him last Christmas

Four guys moved down around the same time, Thornbury, Steve crosbie, oli jager and Harrison brewer.

Crosbie is playing AIL .... and brewer is with manawatu playing mitre 10. Thornbury with connacht and jager now a double super rugby winner with canterbury

So varying levels of success...
I'm sure each would claim it was worth it though...

I don't think you can measure it against international appearances though. We don't have they player pool numbers to allow a senior club player have a hiatus in NZ.... but it's definitely worth doing if s squad player is between the 20s and Seniors and finding game time hard to access.

Dubinusa

It's a common denominator though? We play well in off years, for the most part and then we fall short on the big stage.
2015 it was a depth issue and we were left flailing by a superb Pumas.
2011 we beat up Oz and barely fired a shot v Wales
This year was disheartening. We played well once! Otherwise we were rubbish. We were well off the required standards physically and once again, there was no cohesive attacking play. We were pushed around up front and seemed clueless on adapting.
For me, it was J.S who was the problem. He saw what we all saw this year and didn't deviate from a tired, plain game plan.
The lack of ideas and the ability to front up was startling.
But. It's a new day and hopefully a positive signing with A.F.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's a common denominator though? We play well in off years, for the most part and then we fall short on the big stage.
2015 it was a depth issue and we were left flailing by a superb Pumas.
2011 we beat up Oz and barely fired a shot v Wales
This year was disheartening. We played well once! Otherwise we were rubbish. We were well off the required standards physically and once again, there was no cohesive attacking play. We were pushed around up front and seemed clueless on adapting.
For me, it was J.S who was the problem. He saw what we all saw this year and didn't deviate from a tired, plain game plan.
The lack of ideas and the ability to front up was startling.
But. It's a new day and hopefully a positive signing with A.F.

Calling all games that are not world cup off years is a laod of crap though. You cant just have this focus on world cup with nothing else marleting as it can still result in you not doing well ina world cup.

salmocab

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's a common denominator though? We play well in off years, for the most part and then we fall short on the big stage.
2015 it was a depth issue and we were left flailing by a superb Pumas.
2011 we beat up Oz and barely fired a shot v Wales
This year was disheartening. We played well once! Otherwise we were rubbish. We were well off the required standards physically and once again, there was no cohesive attacking play. We were pushed around up front and seemed clueless on adapting.
For me, it was J.S who was the problem. He saw what we all saw this year and didn't deviate from a tired, plain game plan.
The lack of ideas and the ability to front up was startling.
But. It's a new day and hopefully a positive signing with A.F.

Look 2015 was a real freak we lost not just a load of players to injury and suspended, they were almost all our most important players. We might have needed a bit more depth but no team could have lost who we lost and still performed well.
Whatever was wrong this year seems to me to have been a few small things for whatever reasons. I can see merit in Caves thing and also in the Leinster lads not enjoying it, even in leaving someone like Toner behind might cause a bit of a mental issue for some players. A few small things can add up for players at this level I would think.
The quarter final thing is just a series of events that aren’t actually related but people like to make it out to be like some dark magic at play.