Racist Abuse?

amadangomor

Portsalon wrote: »

The simple answer is that I wouldn't - but I'd have no problem in firing back a couple of cutting ripostes rather than indulging in a flounce.

This! I remember working in a factory in England years ago and this eejit started calling me Paddy in a derogatory way, had to put him in his place and did. Had him nearly crying with how small I made him feel.

Eejits need to be stood up to and if the opportunity presents itself put them on their arse with a verbal riposte and these bullies will wilt like the small minded insecure people they are.

anewme

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Make a joke about about the IRA bombs taking out a few of their army, about the Royal family, or indeed their backward attempts at leaving the EU.

Then you'll see whether it's banter or not.

Funny, I have a feeling this "joker" and his Irish apologists will be the first to accuse you of racism. Get over the 800 years etc.

Worth remembering this British guy is actually how a lot of continentals and North Americans view that country stereotypically, it is part of British culture to attack others, he sounds like he has poor table manners anyway, social skills and educational attainment.

I agree with an earlier poster, count yourself lucky we're not as hated as him and his ilk.

Thinking back now, He was trying earlier to bring in the Bloody Sunday Enquiry as well, but I did not react and someone else said something that changed the conversation track.

parc

He's just a wanker.

Probably an ex-army guy

You only hear this type of stuff from working class essex people or ex-army guys over 55.

BDI

If you go on a boat trip you could always look across the coast and point to a hill and ask if it’s mount batten, wait for a moment and say how explosive the view is.


If you want to play his game.

Gatling

Or do your best liam nesson impression

An Claidheamh

anewme wrote: »

Thinking back now, He was trying earlier to bring in the Bloody Sunday Enquiry as well, but I did not react and someone else said something that changed the conversation track.

WTF!

FFS, remind him of the Warrenpoint ambush so and that those "soldiers" were murderers.

He sounds like a thug alright, thick as two planks, again probably low social skills

Sheep breeder

anewme wrote: »

Am on a group holiday...only Irish person...something comes up about electric cars and I say about the plans for Ireland and 2030 bans.

One English person in the group pipes up with..”oh, are you not still all on donkeys?”

I told him I wasn’t putting up with this **** and left the table.

He mentioned the famine earlier at dinner too.

Tour leader taking it as a joke.

Racist abuse or not?

Ask him how they are going to get around in Sunderland when Toyota move out after brexit,

amadangomor

BDI wrote: »

If you go on a boat trip you could always look across the coast and point to a hill and ask if it’s mount batten, wait for a moment and say how explosive the view is.


If you want to play his game.

Nah, Mortar the point , would go straight over his bigoted head

Raconteuse

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

Well, considering both you and him are part of the human race, then no it's not racist.

It sounds like a joke to me, and you would be expected to retort with a slagging of your own, it's called having a laugh.

He wasn't having a laugh though. Context varies

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Really?

Why would someone take offence if they place no value on the person attempting to give offence?

I really fear for society if every attempt to offend succeeds because people feel they should be offended.

Not to mention the utter idiots who spend their time being offended for others.

Good luck with your ongoing search for offence.

Oh aren't ye brilliant some of ye with being so above it all.

Guy says obnoxious prejudiced crap to make the one Irish person feel uncomfortable, and people say yeah he was being an arsehole, instead of just saying bend over and take it.

I don't think you actually fear for society. That's the hysterical, melodramatic line that always gets resorted to by people whingeing about other people being sensitive (irony alert). Nobody is offended on behalf of others in this case, nobody is looking for offence. If people are rude to you, you'll get agitated by it. It's a natural response that none of us are above. Chill.

Tell me how

anewme wrote: »

Am on a group holiday...only Irish person...something comes up about electric cars and I say about the plans for Ireland and 2030 bans.

One English person in the group pipes up with..”oh, are you not still all on donkeys?”

I told him I wasn’t putting up with this **** and left the table.

He mentioned the famine earlier at dinner too.

Tour leader taking it as a joke.

Racist abuse or not?

A few ways to handle this.

The politically correct way.
Tell the guide it is unacceptable and ask them to act.

The sensible way
Make a note in your head and just be ready for this individual to show their true colours and otherwise ignore them. Focus your chat and interaction with others in the group avoiding this person.

The 'After Hours' way
A - In response to donkeys quip. 'We did yeah, but for the last few years they've all been occupied in Westminster.
B - In response to famine quip 'You could do with a famine yourself (replace directing the insult at him with one of his family members if necessary)'

The Thomas Shelby way
Salute him with your drink and later, as he goes to his room, hit him over the head with a fire extinguisher and throw him down the stairs.

(I saw the Joker last night and my mind has been working in curious ways all day )

killbillvol2

Raconteuse wrote: »

He wasn't having a laugh though. Context varies

Oh aren't ye brilliant some of ye with being so above it all.

Guy says obnoxious prejudiced crap to make the one Irish person feel uncomfortable, and people say yeah he was being an arsehole, instead of just saying bend over and take it.

I don't think you actually fear for society. That's the hysterical, melodramatic line that always gets resorted to by people whingeing about other people being sensitive (irony alert). Nobody is offended on behalf of others in this case, nobody is looking for offence. If people are rude to you, you'll get agitated by it. It's a natural response that none of us are above. Chill.

I really don't think I'm the one who needs to chill...

El_Duderino 09

I've lived in England and I find this attitude can happen but it's not ubiquitous.

The less people know about Ireland the more likely they are to rely on stereotypes of Irish people as backwards and famine or potato jokes (asking you to say 33 and a 1/3. It's a function of them knowing little about Ireland rather than intentionally bullying.

topper75

Gatling wrote: »

Generation snowflake .


I remember serving pints in aUK pub wearing a balaclava given to me by a customer as a joke ,
It used to make people actually laugh .



Generation snowflake say no be offended at everything

A bit craic. Why not. Life is too short.

machaseh

Irish people are not a race.

Is it a ****ty joke to make? Yes. Did you react appropriately? No, just shrug it off and move on with your life.

endofrainbow

look him direct in the eye and say *yer Ma*.............

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

With stuff like this, it’s a fine line.

I love a bit of inter-country joshing and light use of stereotypes. I have an Apu quote as a signature, complete with deliberate misspelling, FGS. The St. Patrick’s Day Simpson’s episode is one of my favourites. I think everyone should be able to laugh at themselves.

But somewhere that line is crossed and it can be hard to define where. Maybe if the person is going on about it too much, maybe you notice their eyes aren’t smiling. Every situation is different, I guess.

Plopsu

Would you not just spend the rest of the holiday feeding him mad stuff? Like, 'We don't ride donkeys because they're sacred in Irish Catholicism" and "We don't make light of the famine. People turned to cannibalism. there are still cannibal cults scattered throughout Mayo and Sligo to this day." He'll either believe you and be repeating it to Irish people in the future or know that you're mocking him but not really understand how. I'd say that's a win/win.

eviltimeban

Just say "yeah you're right, we're all on donkeys".

Agree with him, it will disarm him. Give him nowhere to go.

Raconteuse

topper75 wrote: »

A bit craic. Why not. Life is too short.

This wasn't a bit of craic. The serving pints in a balaclava thing was a joke that gatling was in on. An entirely different situation.

No idea why all these Irish have to endorse the whole "just bend over and take it paddy!" thing. Dreadful inferiority complex.

Also this "snowflake" thing doesn't have to be used about *everything* - everyone gets bothered by stuff at times. Everyone. Including gatling.

Raconteuse

killbillvol2 wrote: »

I really don't think I'm the one who needs to chill...

You were losing your sh1t at the guy. Coming up with all this stuff that wasn't even being said.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

machaseh wrote: »

Irish people are not a race.

Is it a ****ty joke to make? Yes. Did you react appropriately? No, just shrug it off and move on with your life.

The whole “can’t be racist because not a race” has gotta be the dumbest statement ever. it would make the Nazis - who didn’t kill non whites (except perhaps in battle) - non racist.

rgmmg

I've lived in London for nearly 20 years. Although quite a few come out with this stuff, most are in good faith ("Potatoes" etc) and are just looking for a laugh in return (Morris dancer etc). I am well able to deal with them at this stage but, occasionally, there can be a nasty person who won't stop at one comment and keep on going. Best to try and ignore it or call them out on it early on if possible.

I have seen English friends in Ireland get similar or worse.

Raconteuse

Yeah the overwhelming majority of English people I've encountered who make jokes about the Irish do so in a good natured way, and everyone is in on it. And I hate - absolutely hate - anti English prejudice, which can be very nasty from some Irish folk (see the Ireland Simpsons Fans group) but there is occasionally that one asshole who is being a bigot. And it's not a bit of craic. And we don't have to be all "ah shur tis all in good fun" like the leprechaun guy in The Simpsons.

chrissb8

What's funny about joking about the famine to someone you just met. If it was a work colleague or a friend then yeah, go ahead a good back and forth is great.

But some British person who I met on holiday cracking jokes like that. F**k off indeed is right.

Is it all of a sudden snowflake to not want to take abuse from a relative stranger from a nation that ruined your home country? And would still do it if they had their way?

You just enable people like that if you don't let it be known.

B.A._Baracus

I'm all for taking the piss. Especially at yourself, you can't be too serious.
But some of the cliche english jokes towards to irish are stupid. Like that Keith lemon as his "pooootato" word. Urgh. Sad and overused.

No different than americans making fun of the brits with that old time, 18th century "bobby" "gouv'ner" voice. Somethings just come off as sad. Doesn't mean you don't have a sense of humor.

El Tarangu

Raconteuse wrote: »

Yeah the overwhelming majority of English people I've encountered who make jokes about the Irish do so in a good natured way

I mean, they are usually trying to be funny, but the jokes seem to revolved around potatoes, and the fact that we pronounce some things differently.

The association with potatoes is primarily related to the Famine, and I think we'll all agree that there is nothing particularly funny about one million people starving. As for the accent thing: would it be considered appropriate for a British person to make a a joke of how an Indian person spoke English? If not, why would they consider appropriate to make the same joke about someone from another of their former colonies?

(my questions are more rhetorical than at you personally, Raconteuse).

killbillvol2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've lived in England and I find this attitude can happen but it's not ubiquitous.

The less people know about Ireland the more likely they are to rely on stereotypes of Irish people as backwards and famine or potato jokes (asking you to say 33 and a 1/3. It's a function of them knowing little about Ireland rather than intentionally bullying.

You only have to look at Westminster to see how little the average English person knows about Ireland. The ignorance is astonishing, not to mention the widely held misconceptions.

dodderangler

anewme wrote: »

Am on a group holiday...only Irish person...something comes up about electric cars and I say about the plans for Ireland and 2030 bans.

One English person in the group pipes up with..”oh, are you not still all on donkeys?”

I told him I wasn’t putting up with this **** and left the table.

He mentioned the famine earlier at dinner too.

Tour leader taking it as a joke.

Racist abuse or not?

How is it racist when the Irish are not a race?
Sooner people learn the difference between race and ethnics the better!!

anewme

dodderangler wrote: »

How is it racist when the Irish are not a race?
Sooner people learn the difference between race and ethnics the better!!

Racial discrimination is described as “Racial discrimination is any discrimination against individuals on the basis of their skin colour, racial or ethnic origin.”

Also explained by a previous poster.

dodderangler

anewme wrote: »

Racial discrimination is described as “Racial discrimination is any discrimination against individuals on the basis of their skin colour, racial or ethnic origin.”

Also explained by a previous poster.

The term race reflects on skin colour! Always has. And always will changing it now to suit people is completely unethical. And because of that race has lost all meaning. Therefore so will the term racism!

anewme

I’m not changing it. That’s the definition and what it covers.

Thanks to the poster for posting it. Made it a lot clearer for me.

Racial discrimination law covers travelers because of their ethnicity, not race.

Gatling

What's on tonight's menu

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Gatling wrote: »

Generation snowflake .

I remember serving pints in aUK pub wearing a balaclava given to me by a customer as a joke ,
It used to make people actually laugh .

Generation snowflake say no be offended at everything

What generation would that be? I bet anything you and the OP are from the same generation...

Franz Von Peppercorn II

dodderangler wrote: »

How is it racist when the Irish are not a race?
Sooner people learn the difference between race and ethnics the better!!

dodderangler wrote: »

The term race reflects on skin colour! Always has. And always will changing it now to suit people is completely unethical. And because of that race has lost all meaning. Therefore so will the term racism!

The sooner people realise that racism (also) applies to ethnic superiority the better. Certainly it did in the past.

I mean race doesn’t exist. Ethnic groups do.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Gatling wrote: »

What's on tonight's menu

We’re all dressing up like leprechauns to amuse any british friends we have. Singing a song called Turty Tree and a Turd.

Arriving on donkeys.

dxhound2005

Six English, one Irish and one Italian. How did that happen?

Gatling

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

We’re all dressing up like leprechauns to amuse any british friends we have. Singing a song called Turty Tree and a Turd.

Arriving on donkeys.

Darby O Gill and the little people night excellent .



Mee Gold.

Tell me how

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Six English, one Irish and one Italian. How did that happen?

Each country was asked to send representatives with a combined 3 digit IQ.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Six English, one Irish and one Italian. How did that happen?

I think we answered that yesterday, Grandpa.

I love the air of incredulity here. As if there could never be a way that disparate strangers from different nationalities would get together on a tour.

the_syco

anewme wrote: »

only Irish person

Question the sexuality of their queen.

HappyAsLarE

Why didn’t you give it back you big wuss, I’m morto that you were our representative

dxhound2005

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I think we answered that yesterday, Grandpa.

I love the air of incredulity here. As if there could never be a way that disparate strangers from different nationalities would get together on a tour.

I'm so old, I forgot.

Paddy Cow

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't think it's racist abuse myself.

If you listen to most boards users they will have you believe that a English white person can't be racist against a white Irish person because we are the same race. Both white. They use this to claim that they aren't racist against travellers because they are white.

It's not racism as we're both the same race. There is another term for it - xenophobia, which doesn't get used because everything falls under the umbrella term "racism", which just dilutes the word. Travellers are the same race as us but they're not from a different country, so I don't know what the correct terminology to use is, but it's not racist.

Racist/racism are such generic terms and it doesn't make sense that they cover everything. There is a massive difference between an Aryan Brotherhood skin head who genuinely hates black people and wishes we could go back to the days of the KKK and someone who makes a joke in poor taste on twitter but gets doxxed and treated to a witch hunt which results in them losing their job and receiving death threats.

We need to expand on the term racism, like we do with assault and have varying degrees, appropriate to the context of what the person said/did. If someone hits me/beats me up, I may have felt they were trying to kill me but that doesn't mean they get charged with attempted murder. We have assault, manslaughter, 2nd degree murder, 1st degree murder*

We should have the same for racism. What the op experienced wasn't racism but it was uncalled for.

*I'm not of the legal profession so these terms maybe wrong. Just my general understanding of it.

Omackeral

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Six English, one Irish and one Italian. How did that happen?

Tell me how wrote: »

Each country was asked to send representatives with a combined 3 digit IQ.

That would still be average or above though :pac:

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

That would still be average or above though :pac:

Indeed, but standards were lowered to allow the English to participate.

Kinda like pass marks been lowered in college courses to allow students to pass now when we all know all current students are way stupider than our generation was.

Omackeral

Watching the Bulgaria v England match here and there's really vile racism on display. Any time a black player gets the ball for England, the crowd are booing and worse. Referee has had to stop the game and the stadium PA has had to warn the fans to stop.

Hilariously, it's 4-0 to England and every goal has been scored by a black player or a player of black extraction.

Tell me how

Omackeral wrote: »

Watching the Bulgaria v England match here and there's really vile racism on display. Any time a black player gets the ball for England, the crowd are booing and worse. Referee has had to stop the game and the stadium PA has had to warn the fans to stop.

Hilariously, it's 4-0 to England and every goal has been scored by a black player or a player of black extraction.

My UK based sister just texted me to tell me about that. She doesn't normally watch football and was asking does this go on all the time.

Omackeral

Tell me how wrote: »

My UK based sister just texted me to tell me about that. She doesn't normally watch football and was asking does this go on all the time.

Bulgaria have already been sanctioned prior to this. Their stadium is operating at reduced capacity as a result. How stuff like monkey chants go on in Europe in 2019 is disgusting. Seems to happen beyond the Iron Curtain and the Balkans most prevalently. Spain and Italy have had issues with it too.

blackcard

Tell me how wrote: »

Each country was asked to send representatives with a combined 3 digit IQ.

Generally only got good natured slagging from the English when I worked over there. I used to tell them that when I left Ireland to go to England, the average IQ in both countries rose substantially. Had 1 lad come back to me the next day telling me I had insulted the English

Paddy Cow

blackcard wrote: »

Generally only got good natured slagging from the English when I worked over there. I used to tell them that when I left Ireland to go to England, the average IQ in both countries rose substantially. Had 1 lad come back to me the next day telling me I had insulted the English

That's brilliant