Scottish independence

Muahahaha

yeah its farcical to even suggest it, NI to Scotland just doesnt have any kind of traffic volumes to justify such a mammoth cost. NI is just a small statelet anyway so its not like Scotland would get any kind of economic boom just because there is a bridge linking to it.

Its pie in the sky stuff from Boris but he always likes to be promising things he knows he wont be around to deliver.

Capt'n Midnight

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How many times in the last 6 years has this bridge been announced? Do they keep forgetting about Beaufort's Dyke?

The absolute state of the UK government at this stage.

It's not about Scotland, it's about diverting attention from Boris' incompetence.

There's over thirty bridges across the Thames in London, people have been putting bridges across that river since Roman times. But Boris spent way more than twice what it cost to build the Millennium bridge and there's nothing to show for it.


On a different note
The crossing between Portpatrick and the Islands off Donaghadee (30Km) is about 10Km shorter than to Larne. But it might not suit the Unionists to accommodate anyone south of Belfast.

A Dub in Glasgo

The bridge is a non-starter, everyone in Scotland knows that (well almost everyone)

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The bridge is a non-starter, everyone in Scotland knows that (well almost everyone)

Not just Scotland.

BonnieSituation

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah that bridge is just a distraction tactic and Boris loves announcing big infrastructure projects knowing he will be well out of office before a single brick gets laid anyway.

They are already looking at huge cost overruns on HS2 and that is 'supposed' to eventually go up to Scotland sometime after 2040. No way would a Northern Ireland to Scotland bridge ever get built before that gets completed, if ever.

Whatever about announcing a big distraction like a bridge to Ireland from Scotland, it's the fact that it's the same announcement over and over. And inevitably the likes of the DUP and their followers will lap it up. Again.

BonnieSituation

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's not about Scotland, it's about diverting attention from Boris' incompetence.

There's over thirty bridges across the Thames in London, people have been putting bridges across that river since Roman times. But Boris spent way more than twice what it cost to build the Millennium bridge and there's nothing to show for it.


On a different note
The crossing between Portpatrick and the Islands off Donaghadee (30Km) is about 10Km shorter than to Larne. But it might not suit the Unionists to accommodate anyone south of Belfast.

I think you missed the point of my initial post.

I'm well aware as to why this would be announced but I'm asking, why is it this exact project which has been announced several times in the last decade as a so-called distraction. Even Boris brought it up as foreign sec iirc.

How the hell can something so idiotic keep being trotted out?

Water John

Because they're stupid and/or think everyone else is stupid.
This should be played as a reply, that would stop it being repeated;
Taliking Heads; You're on the Road to Nowhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQiOA7euaYA

Capt'n Midnight

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How the hell can something so idiotic keep being trotted out?

Because if they had proper journalism they wouldn't get away with cheap tricks.

It doesn't get within an asses roar of adding up.
A bridge to France across shallower water is priced at £120 Bn compared to £15 Bn to Ireland. And the distance across open water is similar in both cases thanks to shallow sandbanks.

But Boris knows all about bridge costs having wasted £53m on not building his garden bridge. The nearby Millennium bridge itself over budget at £18.2m to give some indication of the scale of waste.



Another news story :

Scotland has now gone 10 days without any Coronavirus deaths.

The rest of the UK had 61 deaths on Friday. All in England.

You all just need to believe harder. The union will support a bridge and the bridge will support the union. Symbiosis is the word of the day.

serfboard

I haven't seen any commentary on here about the fact that the Westminster Intelligence and Security Committee report said:

there is “credible open source commentary” suggesting Russia used influence campaigns during the [Scottish] independence referendum campaign in 2014.

Evidence of the claims in the report were redacted by the committee.

So, they are saying that it happened, but not producing any evidence. Wouldn't exactly stand up in court ...

Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Vlad seems to be a fan of the oul' disruptive Cyberwarfare, and why wouldn't he - it's cheap as chips to run, costing nothing compared to military hardware, and it seems to have quite a good return on investment.

Nicola Sturgeon isn't being drawn into giving the report too much credence though:

Nicola Sturgeon wrote:

I don’t think you can draw any conclusions from the three lines or thereabouts that the report has on the Scottish independence referendum.

Water John

Security briefings operate at diff levels of credibility, rarely would they say an absolute.

MaccaTacca

Just out of genuine interest, where does Ireland's love in for Scotland come from?

Irish people really seem to have a historical blip when it comes to the Scots and the Welsh.

Would have no interest in entering a trade alliance with them.

Over 50% of Scots (the ones who voted to remain part of the UK) would not consider Irish people to be their 'Celtic Brothers' yet we seem to think they love us.

Always find it weird that the English are always blamed and hated by us for historical events, when the Scottish meddled in our affairs just as much.

Sam Russell

MaccaTacca wrote: »

Just out of genuine interest, where does Ireland's love in for Scotland come from?

Irish people really seem to have a historical blip when it comes to the Scots and the Welsh.

Would have no interest in entering a trade alliance with them.

Over 50% of Scots (the ones who voted to remain part of the UK) would not consider Irish people to be their 'Celtic Brothers' yet we seem to think they love us.

Always find it weird that the English are always blamed and hated by us for historical events, when the Scottish meddled in our affairs just as much.

The Scots are divided by religion, just as NI is.

The nastiness that Britain visited on us was from the Tory element of their political masters - the 'toffs'. The British nation is more divided by their odd belief in class, and the 'upper classes' see themselves as better than anyone else - not just in Britain but the entire world. In fact they consider others should respect their betters - that is them.

There is also a very distinct North - South divide. For those that live in London and the South, the 'North' begins at the Watford Gap on the M1 (halfway to Birmingham). Birmingham is considered 'the Midlands' but it is only halfway up England and the Scottish border is halfway up the island of GB.

It's complicated.

McGiver

mick087 wrote:

So how often should a referendum be held?

When there is a significant change to the circumstances. Brexit and a chauvinist quasi-authoritarian regime are two significant changes to circumstances.

McGiver

Muahahaha wrote:

yeah its farcical to even suggest it, NI to Scotland just doesnt have any kind of traffic volumes to justify such a mammoth cost. NI is just a small statelet anyway so its not like Scotland would get any kind of economic boom just because there is a bridge linking to it.

In fact Scotland should prevent any bridges from the NI being built and burn any existing ones. Else the Ulster toxicity gets into Scotland. Nobody interested in that.

Larbre34

McGiver wrote: »

In fact Scotland should prevent any bridges from the NI being built and burn any existing ones. Else the Ulster toxicity gets into Scotland. Nobody interested in that.

I'm afraid that ship sailed centuries ago. But, it isn't as prevalent as Northern Ireland, still hope for them.

Larbre34

MaccaTacca wrote: »

Just out of genuine interest, where does Ireland's love in for Scotland come from?

Irish people really seem to have a historical blip when it comes to the Scots and the Welsh.

Would have no interest in entering a trade alliance with them.

Over 50% of Scots (the ones who voted to remain part of the UK) would not consider Irish people to be their 'Celtic Brothers' yet we seem to think they love us.

Always find it weird that the English are always blamed and hated by us for historical events, when the Scottish meddled in our affairs just as much.

Our affinity is with Gaelic and Catholic Scots. We had a a common enemy and a common experience. Not hard to see the empathy. Our Northern Ireland loyalist cousins are just as bound to the dissenters.

mick087

McGiver wrote: »

When there is a significant change to the circumstances. Brexit and a chauvinist quasi-authoritarian regime are two significant changes to circumstances.

Do you think Scotland would get a overhaul majority if there was another referendum?
I would say it would be very close.
Would it not be best to wait a few more years?

Sam Russell

Larbre34 wrote: »

Our affinity is with Gaelic and Catholic Scots. We had a a common enemy and a common experience. Not hard to see the empathy. Our Northern Ireland loyalist cousins are just as bound to the dissenters.

There is another division in Scotland between the highlands and lowlands - more division.

bob mcbob

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is another division in Scotland between the highlands and lowlands - more division.

Historically yes but not really any more - the highland clearances saw to that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

eire4

mick087 wrote: »

Do you think Scotland would get a overhaul majority if there was another referendum?
I would say it would be very close.
Would it not be best to wait a few more years?

Currently the most recent polls give the yes vote a 54-46 lead and the more intransigent London remains I would expect that margin to grow. The next Scottish assembly elections are in May so less then a year away. No doubt the SNP will campaign on an independence platform looking for a clear mandate to push for a second referendum. The more that London keeps saying no the more that just plays into the SNP's hands and will drive up that current 54-46% margin in favour of independence IMHO.

mick087

eire4 wrote: »

Currently the most recent polls give the yes vote a 54-46 lead and the more intransigent London remains I would expect that margin to grow. The next Scottish assembly elections are in May so less then a year away. No doubt the SNP will campaign on an independence platform looking for a clear mandate to push for a second referendum. The more that London keeps saying no the more that just plays into the SNP's hands and will drive up that current 54-46% margin in favour of independence IMHO.

That would be a good result 54%. it think any lower say 52% might split the country as did Brexit split England. But it does seem the SNP are going in the right direction for achieve independence for Scotland.

c.p.w.g.w

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The bridge is a non-starter, everyone in Scotland knows that (well almost everyone)

Everyone knows it, there is nuclear waste dumped along the purposes site and I believe old munitions too

Sam Russell

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Everyone knows it, there is nuclear waste dumped along the purposes site and I believe old munitions too

Plus a very deep dyke.

The longest span of any bridge in the world is 2 km or thereabouts - it is a 45 km gap.

pixelburp

mick087 wrote: »

That would be a good result 54%. it think any lower say 52% might split the country as did Brexit split England. But it does seem the SNP are going in the right direction for achieve independence for Scotland.

Critically for those polls, they're not outliers or one offs but there's an emerging consistency or pattern. IIRC no poll pre 2014 showed a majority and certainly not consecutive ones. That we're now seeing resting support for independence as a baseline figure is a big change in the discussion. London can't be ignorant of this and the strategy for Remain (ha) will be fascinating.

Water John

The 'fear of change', element which was largely used the last time to urge people to vote for the status quo, will be redundant in any future ref.

loyatemu

pixelburp wrote: »

Critically for those polls, they're not outliers or one offs but there's an emerging consistency or pattern. IIRC no poll pre 2014 showed a majority and certainly not consecutive ones. That we're now seeing resting support for independence as a baseline figure is a big change in the discussion. London can't be ignorant of this and the strategy for Remain (ha) will be fascinating.

Support for independence actually grew substantially during the run up to the previous referendum, though it had been somewhat higher in the years before the vote date was confirmed.

c.p.w.g.w

Sam Russell wrote: »

Plus a very deep dyke.

The longest span of any bridge in the world is 2 km or thereabouts - it is a 45 km gap.

I think that's where the waste is dumped

Water John

Two bridges to the Isle of Man might make some sense and string mega wind turbines all along the way.

Sam Russell

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I think that's where the waste is dumped

It was indeed. The last time any messing it that area resulted a few bits washing up on beeches not too far away - well anywhere is not far enough. Lots of the stuff dumped would be very unstable and dangerous.

It is a ludicrous proposal. Of all the places to put a bridge or tunnel, this is the last place it should be attempted.