Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

When everyone is running in one direction start walking quietly in the opposite they will finally catch up

Interesting times ahead

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

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Reports are that they're partnerships with experienced guys.
I wonder will these sheep farm conversions have any effect on lamb trade.A lot of ewes are being culled to make room

When you go into partnership with experienced guys have s look around the table for the mug. If you cannot spot him check the mirror in case he is looking at you

Mooooo

It's being said that the dairy calf needs x amount with it to turn a profit. Fair enough. But is the elephant in the room not that the suckler farm also need x amount on top of what a weanling is worth to also turn a profit.? The factories don't want P's but they also don't want carcasses over 400kg. If you were looking at it purely from a financial point of view 70% of suckler herds make less sense than fr calf to beef and according to bass there are as about as profitable as jex. So there is an issue with the beef industry as a whole. I may get slated but the lads that keep on going while making a loss are the ones who are suppressing prices as they are essentially supplying subsidised beef to the factories. Those that depend on a return will exit as they can't sustain losses whereas those that keep going are subsidising it thru alternative enterprise/ off farm job and there are simply too many doing that to effect change on the beef sector.

Castlekeeper

wrangler wrote: »

Those two sheep farms will be near 1000 cows between them, both are planning rotary parlours

Unless they've an awful lot of tillage they won't be half that. 1500 ewes = c.300 cows.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

When you go into partnership with experienced guys have s look around the table for the mug. If you cannot spot him check the mirror in case he is looking at you

When I was negotiating the leases here I used to say to OH ''sure they can't go with the land if anything goes wrong''
It's a completely different story with the amount of money these guys are putting into facilities and buildings

wrangler

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Unless they've an awful lot of tillage they won't be half that. 1500 ewes = c.300 cows.

both have a lot of tillage and one is contract rearing already, both are big farms

patsy_mccabe

Anyone else think this is an indirect way of reducing suckler cows. They can't attack sucklers directly so just flood the market with FR weanlings. This will make sucklers even less profitable and more will exit. Emissions targets achieved.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Anyone else think this is an indirect way of reducing suckler cows. They can't attack sucklers directly so just flood the market with FR weanlings. This will make sucklers even less profitable and more will exit. Emissions targets achieved.

The emissions per hectare will be the same if the stocking rate is similar.,

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Anyone else think this is an indirect way of reducing suckler cows. They can't attack sucklers directly so just flood the market with FR weanlings. This will make sucklers even less profitable and more will exit. Emissions targets achieved.

No the original was get rid of suckler cows and plant a large swat with Tree's. However it is dawning now that there are other issues with dairy expansion. What I cannot understand is the attitude of still encouraging continual dairy expansion. At this stage the Dept of Agriculture and Teagasc should be highlighting proposed nitrates limits coming down the line.

_Brian

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No the original was get rid of suckler cows and plant a large swat with Tree's. However it is dawning now that there are other issues with dairy expansion. What I cannot understand is the attitude of still encouraging continual dairy expansion. At this stage the Dept of Agriculture and Teagasc should be highlighting proposed nitrates limits coming down the line.

Dairy is making money for farmers and throughout the dairy manufacturing sector.
No doubt the plan is to throw sucklers under the milk lorry when the time is appropriate.

K.G.

wrangler wrote: »

Even around here it's unreal the expansion /new startups that's going on, and this wasn't a dairy area.
another local sheep farmer converting, 600 + ewes + tillage, He's reported to be spending €1.5m on infrastructure alone.
There'll be another 900 ewe sheep farm converted by the end of next year too.
I wonder do people know what the increase in calf nos will be next spring

I ve said this before it makes no sense
The areas that have the poorest milk price are expanding the most and the best paying area is not expanding as quickly. Around west cork its more steady growth than explosive expansion and very few new entrants.

Base price

Panch18 wrote: »

Who was talking at this event Base??

It was the first of four IFA discussions throughout the country. The panel were Tom Phelan IFA dairy Chair, Sean Coughlan ICBF, Dr. Pat Dillon Teagasc and a guy from ICOS - I didn't get his name.
Sean Coughlan from ICBF was very interesting and imo was the most knowledgeable in terms of what the challenges are on farms both for dairy and beef farmers.

Base price

There was some discussion about re-starting a veal industry to cater for the possible banning of live calf exports from Ireland to mainland Europe but it was dismissed - 1) due to the fact that there is inconsistency with supply as the majority of dairy calves are born within a three month period. 2) the Van Drie group (in Holland) more or less control European veal production.

FYI - attached is the IFA document "Managing Dairy Calves" from the meeting -

Sheep breeder

jaymla627 wrote: »

The booby calf option looks like its going to be off the table, I'm not talking about forcing anyone it's going to be the only outlet for them, unless beef men are prepared to indefinitely keep at it., losing money and solving the dairy man's problem....
Hows it logical that its outrageous to contemplate the dairy farmer has to feel a bit of financial pain but its deemed perfectly acceptable the calf to beef man loses his shirt and uses his sfp to survive

A bit of sense, but from the young dairy cub point of view it’s the beef mans fault if he doesn’t buy his calf at the Cubs price, sure the white gold is king.

greysides

Base price wrote: »

FYI - attached is the IFA document "Managing Dairy Calves" from the meeting -

That reads like my Santa list.

Base price

greysides wrote: »

That reads like my Santa list.

Any chance you can get back onto Santa and ask him to bring all the boys and girls a equitable financial solution.
IMO the document is a knee jerk reaction to the mistreatment of Irish calves shown on the video from the lairage in Tollevast, France earlier this year.

jaymla627

Base price wrote: »

Any chance you can get back onto Santa and ask him to bring all the boys and girls a equitable financial solution.
IMO the document is a knee jerk reaction to the mistreatment of Irish calves shown on the video from the lairage in Tollevast, France earlier this year.

It's a arse covering exercise more like, when the s**t hits the fan all the vested interests will be able to wag the finger and read the riot act, globally agriculture is at a point where big business is literally sucking farmers dry, brilliant series on Netflix called Rotten, after watching a couple of episodes of it, you wouldn't be to optimistic of any fairness our return on assets labour coming about

amacca

I do calf to beef

Given the ****show this year any dairy man wants to give me 20 euro a head to take them off his hands next spring ill consider coming to collect them.

No freisans, or anything with jersey influence...actually no angus either in case they are not an angus

I'd still be losing money, but it wouldn't do to let the place go wild.

Ill throw in a scratchcard as a goodwill gesture.

Base price

amacca wrote: »

I do calf to beef

Given the ****show this year any dairy man wants to give me 20 euro a head to take them off his hands next spring ill consider coming to collect them.

No freisans, or anything with jersey influence...actually no angus either in case they are not an angus

I'd still be losing money, but it wouldn't do to let the place go wild.

Ill throw in a scratchcard as a goodwill gesture.

Base price

jaymla627 wrote: »

It's a arse covering exercise more like, when the s**t hits the fan all the vested interests will be able to wag the finger and read the riot act, globally agriculture is at a point where big business is literally sucking farmers dry, brilliant series on Netflix called Rotten, after watching a couple of episodes of it, you wouldn't be to optimistic of any fairness our return on assets labour coming about

If anyone believes that Teagasc hadn't considered the plight of the dairy/cross bull calf due to dairy expansion are deluded. I'm not a dairy farmer but IMO they kicked the can as far down the road as possible and hoped that it wasn't going to be an issue. Unfortunately the footage in the French lairage put paid to that. I was in the room when Dr. Pat Dillon from Teagasc made his statement and the room fell silent as we all looked at one another in bemusement. They are now trying to row back and infer that dairy farmers are remiss at rearing calves which I found surprising. I've been buying dairy calves for years and found little evidence of neglect.

Birdnuts

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No the original was get rid of suckler cows and plant a large swat with Tree's. However it is dawning now that there are other issues with dairy expansion. What I cannot understand is the attitude of still encouraging continual dairy expansion. At this stage the Dept of Agriculture and Teagasc should be highlighting proposed nitrates limits coming down the line.

No surprise there - another example is their constant foot dragging when it comes to using hedgerows(and their management needs) as Carbon storage in terms of Agri emmissions. Dr Catherine Keena is doing good work on it within Teagasc but appears to be isolated and not getting the necessary support or co-operation from other parts of the organisation.

Birdnuts

amacca wrote: »

I do calf to beef

Given the ****show this year any dairy man wants to give me 20 euro a head to take them off his hands next spring ill consider coming to collect them.

No freisans, or anything with jersey influence...actually no angus either in case they are not an angus

I'd still be losing money, but it wouldn't do to let the place go wild.

Ill throw in a scratchcard as a goodwill gesture.

I'd take one over a Holstein any day - its like trying to eat soup with a fork fattening those lanky ****ers!!

Mooooo

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'd take one over a Holstein any day - its like trying to eat soup with a fork fattening those lanky ****ers!!

You just need proper soup!

Base price

Base price wrote: »

If anyone believes that Teagasc hadn't considered the plight of the dairy/cross bull calf due to dairy expansion are deluded. I'm not a dairy farmer but IMO they kicked the can as far down the road as possible and hoped that it wasn't going to be an issue. Unfortunately the footage in the French lairage put paid to that. I was in the room when Dr. Pat Dillon from Teagasc made his statement and the room fell silent as we all looked at one another in bemusement. They are now trying to row back and infer that dairy farmers are remiss at rearing calves which I found surprising. I've been buying dairy calves for years and found little evidence of neglect.

I forgot to add the quote from Dr. Pat Dillon so here it is again for those who missed the original link from Neddyusa on Tuesday - https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/believe-it-or-not-we-never-considered-the-outcome-of-the-dairy-calves-teagasc/

K.G.

What do people think is going to happen
1 all calves practically unsaleable and dairy lads feeding them well into year
2 massive increase in export
3similar to last year at maybe 20 %lower prices
4a slaughter e scheme available at a cost of 50 per calf

Keep Sluicing

K.G. wrote: »

What do people think is going to happen
1 all calves practically unsaleable and dairy lads feeding them well into year
2 massive increase in export
3similar to last year at maybe 20 %lower prices
4a slaughter e scheme available at a cost of 50 per calf

For all the jumping up and down on here, there will be a buyer for 90% of the calves this spring, all be it for a bit less money than last spring. About 8% will be let go at 10 to 16 days for €0 to €5 just to get them out of the yard, and 2% will be slaughter in approved facilities.

There are lots of lads still willing to take a punt on dairy calves, even with these sh1te prices in the factory.... shur thats what they've always done.

Base price

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

For all the jumping up and down on here, there will be a buyer for 90% of the calves this spring, all be it for a bit less money than last spring. About 8% will be let go at 10 to 16 days for €0 to €5 just to get them out of the yard, and 2% will be slaughter in approved facilities.

There are lots of lads still willing to take a punt on dairy calves, even with these sh1te prices in the factory.... shur thats what they've always done.

I reckon you are right.

GrasstoMilk

Base price wrote: »

I reckon you are right.

The beef price cant stay what it's at long term, I'd prefer give calves away than have to keep them till weaning. That's a massive cost. I think they will be sold but at very low prices which should help the buyers bottom line
who knows, in 2 years time when they're heading to the factory beef price could be over 4€

Hard Knocks

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Anyone else think this is an indirect way of reducing suckler cows. They can't attack sucklers directly so just flood the market with FR weanlings. This will make sucklers even less profitable and more will exit. Emissions targets achieved.

I think they hoped suckler farmers would quit the suckler cows they had built up and move to dairy cross, the star system and BDGS were used when the uptake wasn’t as intended the weight limits came.
For anyone who did change their calf decreased drastically as the shipping didn’t want the new calves
Now it’s hope the suckler farmers rear the additional dairy calves with probably funding for calf rearing courses.
From what I see suckler farmers Have lost respect and confidence in the experts, they will reduce cow numbers to the min and lift as much payments as they can, and not take on extra work load
As pointed out by others on this thread the experts are lacking and are making allot of errors with little or no consequence to themselves

Why should farmers take the hit

There are too many experts (Dept, Teagasc, BB consultants) to be paid from a struggling industry especially with the Brexit storm brewing

Base price

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

The beef price cant stay what it's at long term, I'd prefer give calves away than have to keep them till weaning. That's a massive cost. I think they will be sold but at very low prices which should help the buyers bottom line
who knows, in 2 years time when they're heading to the factory beef price could be over 4€

Bollox, that is the same codswollop that I heard at the IFA meeting on Tuesday.

They are still trying to kick the can even further down the road and hoping that beef prices will recover sometime in the future.
Beef prices are similar to milk, crude oil or other commodity prices, they will rise or fall and there is feck all that you and I can do about. That is the reality when your product is traded. They fail to acknowledge that if live calf shipping or cull calf slaughter is curtailed or stopped then we head into a crises.