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Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.
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Was at a vetinary event recently and from vets there we could be looking at 10/12 weeks before they leave the farm in the near future
Wow, I could see the the logic of not allowing mart sales, or to dealers, but banning a single farm to farm sale/ or even move seems a bit of joke..Slava ukraini 🇺🇦
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Bass Reeves wrote: »It is all in the context. A lot of farmers imagine they work long hours. They look at the lad working a 4o hour week. However most farmers consider there working hours start when they get out of bed and finish when the go to bed.
Take a normal worker working a 60 hour week. He has to be in for lets say 7pm. If he is a half an hour from work he may be up at or before 6 am depending on whether he must shower in the morning, but the least he need is to eat something as it will be 10 am before he sees anything and in some employments his first break could be 4.5 hour's after starting time. He rocks into work at 7pm to achieve a 10 hour work day he will have at least an hour in breaks to add in some jobs it may be necessary to close down from 1-2 in that case add another 30 minutes to the day if lunch is an hour. So after rocking in at 7am he gets off at 6pm at best and it may be nearer 7 pm depending on mandatory breaks. He hops into his car and is home between 7-7.30.......now he may need to collect milk for the house, the kids from the parents place, the shopping arrive home to take the kids to music or dancing. Now do that for 6 days a week in a structured employment and you get the idea that yes a 60 hour working week is long.
Farmers can often associate activities that other workers are not allowed to do during there working day, drop and collect the kids from school, into the house after milking fir breakfast, putting on the dinner if the other half is working, lighting the fire before starting to milk the cows, dropping to the shop for the paper, a few cigs running into johnny ( couldn't get away from him) for a chat, taking the car to the garage all these activities are not part of a normal workers working day.
As well a 30 minute commute is low by normal standards. If you are doing a 60 hour week with commuting and even simple stuff like putting diesel in the car for tomorrow you could be leaving the house at 6am and not getting home until 8pm. Many doing it would never see there children from one end of the week until the next. You would be hitting the sack at 10pm if not earlier. for the 2-3 hours home time you may need to sort out clothes, lunch and dinner for the following day.
Mandatory working week for employees has to average less than 50/week. We had a few discussion on this forum about farm wages over the years, most farmer get heart failure when you start going above 12/hour. I think we had one lad with an employee on a 8 hour day staring at 8am, with two hours of breaks during the day so on site from 8am-6pm. Add another two hours to that day and do it Monday to Saturday.
Id agree with a good bit of that bass in fairness. Especially the bit about commuting. Still 60 hours is allowing all Sunday off and no night work. I suppose it would be OK for a few years while a lad is young especially if getting an hourly rate0 -
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Delighted to see that killing newborn calves is off the table!
One question that is not being discussed is the damage that’s going to be done to Irish beef.
If the proper beef breeds are going to be replaced by xbred screws, isn’t it guaranteeing that the beef exports are going to be the absolute bottom of the quality range...?
Irreparable damage could be done to Irish beef, to solve a dairy problem that was inevitable?0 -
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If all the dairy calves were reared in this country then what would happen when they get to factory age. It's all ready oversupplied. The best thing for beef price long term is on farm euthanasia for the bottom barrel calves.
On farm slaughter of calves won’t happen and rightly so ,I certainly couldn’t bring myself to it ,it would solve to a point the numbers but destroy our clean green food image ,years and years of been fed and told the New Zealand way was best has come home to roost now0 -
On farm slaughter of calves won’t happen and rightly so ,I certainly couldn’t bring myself to it ,it would solve to a point the numbers but destroy our clean green food image ,years and years of been fed and told the New Zealand way was best has come home to roost now
I couldn't or wouldn't do it here but the reality is that some calves won't be reared.0 -
Some gas people and some nasty people on here.
One of the biggest deals in dairy history was done this year between Coke Cola and Fonterra.
Coke is by any measure and there are many the most recognised and valuable brand in the world ever. They did a deal with Fonterra the biggest processor in NZ, yet I keep hearing how NZ have destroyed their image. I suppose it depends on who you’re listening to.0 -
GrasstoMilk wrote: »You said on here a number of times that you were keeping extra calves because they weren't going to get the price you wanted for them.
We're you also not happy with the prices you were offered when you went to sell those calves in September?
Theres no money for the beef man but you still have to make your bit?
But hypocritical, is it not?
I'd be happier to pay for better quality dairy bred weanlings in September from a farmer that would rear the animals to a high standard and be ready to hit the ground running for another 10 weeks grazing than buying a runt in spring that might never make anything.0 -
At what age does an animal become veal? 2 weeks, 12 weeks 30weeks????0
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Gawddawggonnit wrote: »Delighted to see that killing newborn calves is off the table!
One question that is not being discussed is the damage that’s going to be done to Irish beef.
If the proper beef breeds are going to be replaced by xbred screws, isn’t it guaranteeing that the beef exports are going to be the absolute bottom of the quality range...?
Irreparable damage could be done to Irish beef, to solve a dairy problem that was inevitable?
What on earth makes you think that a suckler bred animal is better than a dairy bred animal from a meat point of view?
Certainly in Ireland the pallet is much more towards traditional breeds crossbred from the dairy herd
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the taste of jersey beef either, in fact it’s probably a lot more flavoursome than most continental breeds. Now making money from it is a different story, but in no way is the end product any worse than a continental animal0 -
If it was hot for the headache I be rolling around the place in stitches. A dairy farmer on one hand blaming beef farmers for protesting and then blaming them for letting processor rid them for the last 30 years. Autumn is o er but another hairy Chestnut about the second highest price in the EU before the protest. Lads forget that they are comparing ''R'' grade prices for steers against R grade bull prices We are 23c/kg behind the UK at present we were nearly 40c/ kg when the protest started and the processors had the foot on the pedal to carry us further away.
Paunch I really enjoyed your nugget that lads rearing calves to stores were still fairly profitable this year. I believe you had 180 cattle for slaughter at the start of the strike. Did you rear them from calves. I think they were mostly bonus breed cattle(AA&HE). Share the costings with us give the DW and the profitability of the system.
Killed a flaking AA bullock last week. 361 DW O=4-. 29 months of age. He grossed 1289. Netted 1273 after deductions. It would have been less that 1271 if I was stupid enough to pay the EIF levy. Now he was the best AA bullock I killed in the last 5 years+. But at that weight he still only managed 0=.
What the cost to take a calf from 3 weeks of age to slaughter.at under 30 months. I will not go with Teagasc figures but I suspect that it a between 750-850 euro depending on your land quality. A good AA calf makes 150 -200 euro so from 900- 1050 he cost to bring to slaughter leaving the beef men 223-373' to share between them for 28 months work they put into him.
Now the UK beef price is 23 C/kg ahead of us. On this Bullock's that is 83 euro we be f@@king millionaire's if we were getting that by some lads thinking here. Now do the sums on the ****ty AA's killing 30-50+ kgs less, on Friesian's grading P/O-, on a f@@king Jex bullock's' killing P =/+at 280 DW(hint netting 873 at present Irish prices Ah sorry lads I should have used that great UK price he make 938 of course we need to take 10 euro off the first price and we will take 11.88 of the second price we have to deduct Angus Woods levy) Now who the F@@k is subsidizing who.
Now you see why I supported beef plan KG because the figures are telling us lads spouting about the second highest beef prices a before the protest are and I will spell there dull titles bull****ters. They are bull****ting as well about the timing there is never a good time to protest but you have to do it.. Yes I think some of BP thinking is delusional regarding the viability of suckler beef. Yes I believe that some beef farmers do not help them selves but the calf problem is a dairy man's problem not a beef man's problem.
If the calf to store man goes and I have to go back to calf to beef I want 13-15 week old calves north of 100kgs At a beef base of 3.9/ kg I give as followibg middle of the road calves
Friesian nothing I nearly want them free as weanlings
AA nothing
HE 100 euro
I will not want to see a JEX or second cross friesian calf in themSlava Ukrainii
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What on earth makes you think that a suckler bred animal is better than a dairy bred animal from a meat point of view?
Certainly in Ireland the pallet is much more towards traditional breeds crossbred from the dairy herd
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the taste of jersey beef either, in fact it’s probably a lot more flavoursome than most continental breeds. Now making money from it is a different story, but in no way is the end product any worse than a continental animal
A good suckler bred weanling will still make €900 in the marts. They're exporting them. A good FR weanling will make €250.'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen
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Even still at current prices ,???,is the calf sold to beef enterprise at a price ,land and Labour accounted for at that ???
Reared on a few late calves last spring and sold them over the last few weeks they made the following:
Aubracs. 910
Limo 900
Hereford 850 and 820
Angus 840, 845 and 825
We were probably 2-3 weeks late going with the aubrac and limos which probably cost us 50 a head
People can work out their own costs to rear them, but we were happy enough with the margin they left, considering these were the last of the cows calved, were a bit late going out to grass as calves and were basically left to their own devices. They always had good grass though0 -
Agree but then Sr and nitrates come into play ,
If this comes to fruition we will defo rear every calf, you’d be a busy fool otherwise I reckon
The killing thing is that when lads get calves at 3 weeks old the hard work is done at that stage, some difference between managing a 3 week old calf and a 3 day old 10 -
What on earth makes you think that a suckler bred animal is better than a dairy bred animal from a meat point of view?
Certainly in Ireland the pallet is much more towards traditional breeds crossbred from the dairy herd
And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the taste of jersey beef either, in fact it’s probably a lot more flavoursome than most continental breeds. Now making money from it is a different story, but in no way is the end product any worse than a continental animal
Have never knowingly eaten jersey but would wonder about that line trotted out about them winning tasting competitions. Everything I'd look for in a piece of beef would need at least a decent Holstein with a good fat score.0 -
patsy_mccabe wrote: »A good suckler bred weanling will still make €900 in the marts. They're exporting them. A good FR weanling will make €250.
In fairness there wouldn’t be many buying fr calves to sell them as weanlings, and your right there wouldn’t be much or anything to be made from it. I’m more talking about bring them to 18-20 months and mart them
On the sucker side from what I see there aren’t too many over the 900 mark now and this year nobody wants the heavier weanling so in fact the lighter ones are making more. Same is true on the store side as well0 -
yosemitesam1 wrote: »Have never knowingly eaten jersey but would wonder about that line trotted out about them winning tasting competitions. Everything I'd look for in a piece of beef would need at least a decent Holstein with a good fat score.
Well a jersey by nature is a fleshy animal and they have a good marbling on their beef. Nothing st all wrong with it0 -
All the talk blaming each side is a all a load of bollox tbh. Said in a previous post there is too much beef being produced below cost price every year and the factories are gladly taking it. Not only dairy calf to beef either. Until people producing at a loss stop there will be no change. Factories first came about to provide competition to live exports to the UK. Now there is or will be no competition to the factories.0
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At the last local mart i felt depressed aa heifer 380kg 16 months old ready for butcher made €560
pin of mighty br/fr bullock 620 kg 20 months old ready for killing made€860 now how anyone makes money at these prices is beyond me .I did not dare look at small cattle selling ,but it looks like the beef industry in this country is completely fuked not to mention anything about xbred or jersey cattle0 -
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patsy_mccabe wrote: »A good suckler bred weanling will still make €900 in the marts. They're exporting them. A good FR weanling will make €250.
A good charolais bull Weanling will. The Good charli heifer is 200 behind so average 800 for the top 5% of cattle.
Average Weanling is closer to 650 at the moment, and judging by last Tuesday mart in Ennis its worse.
Fr or any Dairy cross are making next to nothing with many lots unsold. Maybe at 12 months of age they might start making a close to euro a kg.
Either way the suckler farmer is better off running less cows but have higher quality better reared animals than going into the dairy calf game.0 -
yosemitesam1 wrote: »Have never knowingly eaten jersey but would wonder about that line trotted out about them winning tasting competitions. Everything I'd look for in a piece of beef would need at least a decent Holstein with a good fat score.
They can win all the tasting competition they like. There AA bul calves the same as well as every breed of heifer calf they produce. Problem is when there calves are only capable of making 800-1k at slaughter they have a negative value when dropped as calves and are still in negative equity until about 12 months o!d.Slava Ukrainii
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Bass Reeves wrote: »If it was hot for the headache I be rolling around the place in stitches. A dairy farmer on one hand blaming beef farmers for protesting and then blaming them for letting processor rid them for the last 30 years. Autumn is o er but another hairy Chestnut about the second highest price in the EU before the protest. Lads forget that they are comparing ''R'' grade prices for steers against R grade bull prices We are 23c/kg behind the UK at present we were nearly 40c/ kg when the protest started and the processors had the foot on the pedal to carry us further away.
Paunch I really enjoyed your nugget that lads rearing calves to stores were still fairly profitable this year. I believe you had 180 cattle for slaughter at the start of the strike. Did you rear them from calves. I think they were mostly bonus breed cattle(AA&HE). Share the costings with us give the DW and the profitability of the system.
Killed a flaking AA bullock last week. 361 DW O=4-. 29 months of age. He grossed 1289. Netted 1273 after deductions. It would have been less that 1271 if I was stupid enough to pay the EIF levy. Now he was the best AA bullock I killed in the last 5 years+. But at that weight he still only managed 0=.
What the cost to take a calf from 3 weeks of age to slaughter.at under 30 months. I will not go with Teagasc figures but I suspect that it a between 750-850 euro depending on your land quality. A good AA calf makes 150 -200 euro so from 900- 1050 he cost to bring to slaughter leaving the beef men 223-373' to share between them for 28 months work they put into him.
Now the UK beef price is 23 C/kg ahead of us. On this Bullock's that is 83 euro we be f@@king millionaire's if we were getting that by some lads thinking here. Now do the sums on the ****ty AA's killing 30-50+ kgs less, on Friesian's grading P/O-, on a f@@king Jex bullock's' killing P =/+at 280 DW(hint netting 873 at present Irish prices Ah sorry lads I should have used that great UK price he make 938 of course we need to take 10 euro off the first price and we will take 11.88 of the second price we have to deduct Angus Woods levy) Now who the F@@k is subsidizing who.
Now you see why I supported beef plan KG because the figures are telling us lads spouting about the second highest beef prices a before the protest are and I will spell there dull titles bull****ters. They are bull****ting as well about the timing there is never a good time to protest but you have to do it.. Yes I think some of BP thinking is delusional regarding the viability of suckler beef. Yes I believe that some beef farmers do not help them selves but the calf problem is a dairy man's problem not a beef man's problem.
If the calf to store man goes and I have to go back to calf to beef I want 13-15 week old calves north of 100kgs At a beef base of 3.9/ kg I give as followibg middle of the road calves
Friesian nothing I nearly want them free as weanlings
AA nothing
HE 100 euro
I will not want to see a JEX or second cross friesian calf in them
FFS will you punctuate that post properly.
What does the sentence in bold mean0 -
FFS will you punctuate that post properly.
What does the sentence in bold mean
10 euro factory deductions with out EIF levy on that anaimal and 11.88 with EIF levy. Angus Wood is its new name
As to who is subsidizing who the beef mas is supposed to pay everybody, the dairy farmer for the calf, the miller for the ration, the marts, hauliers, merchants, builders, machinery guy, contractor, you name it he supposed to pay him ........and then take what is left. At the very end when all costs are added up its our fault if we cannot squeeze Larry for more...........and if we try to squeeze him lads are complaining as well you included. And the final insult is the Angus Wood comment's about the second highest price before the protest as if the present price is not nearer the UK price than before the protest. And he is on about timing as well. Another muppet to add to the list of IFA muppets we had before and as one lad said it an insult to muppets. And add the lad that wants to fly out the calves to that list as well. Living in a cocoon gets your vision distorted by the web around itSlava Ukrainii
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And what's the solution in your eyes? You've often posted your own figures saying you make a profit from the dairy bred animal, or that you may but the less in demand or hungry looking yearlings at a mart, but those animals you've bought at the lower prices have left the person before you a loss?
The only way the supply and market will regulate itself is if lads producing beef at a loss stop doing so because at the moment and for a number of years probably there is beef produced at a loss and instead of stopping they keep on coming as either the sfp or the job or whatever is supporting it.
It is a livestock industry wide issue and whether lads like it or not beef and dairy are in it. Haven't looked at figures for ai straw usage but most I've spoken to have used more beef or let the bulls in early. The issue will still be there next year whether it's a bb or a fr calf on the ground0 -
Bass Reeves wrote: »10 euro factory deductions with out EIF levy on that anaimal and 11.88 with EIF levy. Angus Wood is its new name
As to who is subsidizing who the beef mas is supposed to pay everybody, the dairy farmer for the calf, the miller for the ration, the marts, hauliers, merchants, builders, machinery guy, contractor, you name it he supposed to pay him ........and then take what is left. At the very end when all costs are added up its our fault if we cannot squeeze Larry for more...........and if we try to squeeze him lads are complaining as well you included. And the final insult is the Angus Wood comment's about the second highest price before the protest as if the present price is not nearer the UK price than before the protest. And he is on about timing as well. Another muppet to add to the list of IFA muppets we had before and as one lad said it an insult to muppets. And add the lad that wants to fly out the calves to that list as well. Living in a cocoon gets your vision distorted by the web around it
I was amused at the BP producer group contract
''I consent to the agreed contribution towards the running costs of Emerald Isle Beef Producers being deducted from my payment dockets.''
After all the s...e spewed against the IFA levy they go and introduce another levy,
You couldn't f...ing make it up0 -
And what's the solution in your eyes? You've often posted your own figures saying you make a profit from the dairy bred animal, or that you may but the less in demand or hungry looking yearlings at a mart, but those animals you've bought at the lower prices have left the person before you a loss?
The only way the supply and market will regulate itself is if lads producing beef at a loss stop doing so because at the moment and for a number of years probably there is beef produced at a loss and instead of stopping they keep on coming as either the sfp or the job or whatever is supporting it.
It is a livestock industry wide issue and whether lads like it or not beef and dairy are in it. Haven't looked at figures for ai straw usage but most I've spoken to have used more beef or let the bulls in early. The issue will still be there next year whether it's a bb or a fr calf on the ground
Yes I be the first to say that at present prices for me to make a profit someone else is making a loss. But at least I recognize that and understand how much trouble the calf to beef man is in. Even the efficient lads is losing money this year or at the stage he is finding it hard to justify costs.
Yes I am in a market that others cannot manage. I keep away from the expensive short term store. I buy a long-term 10-15 month animal in general. But it is not for everyone.The reason most finisher's are screming blue murder over the protest is they lost about 1/2 a three month cycle of cattle and are now getting the same price as the rest of us. They expect the storeman to take the hit and smile but the problem is there is no where left for the storeman to squeeze.
This is not about 50-80k JEX calves it about an issue with what is 500k+ non commercial animals and a beef price that is hitting break even for these cattle at best with no margin for the beef system which leaves the storeman carrying huge lossesSlava Ukrainii
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Bass Reeves wrote: »If it was hot for the headache I be rolling around the place in stitches. A dairy farmer on one hand blaming beef farmers for protesting and then blaming them for letting processor rid them for the last 30 years. Autumn is o er but another hairy Chestnut about the second highest price in the EU before the protest. Lads forget that they are comparing ''R'' grade prices for steers against R grade bull prices We are 23c/kg behind the UK at present we were nearly 40c/ kg when the protest started and the processors had the foot on the pedal to carry us further away.
Paunch I really enjoyed your nugget that lads rearing calves to stores were still fairly profitable this year. I believe you had 180 cattle for slaughter at the start of the strike. Did you rear them from calves. I think they were mostly bonus breed cattle(AA&HE). Share the costings with us give the DW and the profitability of the system.
Killed a flaking AA bullock last week. 361 DW O=4-. 29 months of age. He grossed 1289. Netted 1273 after deductions. It would have been less that 1271 if I was stupid enough to pay the EIF levy. Now he was the best AA bullock I killed in the last 5 years+. But at that weight he still only managed 0=.
What the cost to take a calf from 3 weeks of age to slaughter.at under 30 months. I will not go with Teagasc figures but I suspect that it a between 750-850 euro depending on your land quality. A good AA calf makes 150 -200 euro so from 900- 1050 he cost to bring to slaughter leaving the beef men 223-373' to share between them for 28 months work they put into him.
Now the UK beef price is 23 C/kg ahead of us. On this Bullock's that is 83 euro we be f@@king millionaire's if we were getting that by some lads thinking here. Now do the sums on the ****ty AA's killing 30-50+ kgs less, on Friesian's grading P/O-, on a f@@king Jex bullock's' killing P =/+at 280 DW(hint netting 873 at present Irish prices Ah sorry lads I should have used that great UK price he make 938 of course we need to take 10 euro off the first price and we will take 11.88 of the second price we have to deduct Angus Woods levy) Now who the F@@k is subsidizing who.
Now you see why I supported beef plan KG because the figures are telling us lads spouting about the second highest beef prices a before the protest are and I will spell there dull titles bull****ters. They are bull****ting as well about the timing there is never a good time to protest but you have to do it.. Yes I think some of BP thinking is delusional regarding the viability of suckler beef. Yes I believe that some beef farmers do not help them selves but the calf problem is a dairy man's problem not a beef man's problem.
If the calf to store man goes and I have to go back to calf to beef I want 13-15 week old calves north of 100kgs At a beef base of 3.9/ kg I give as followibg middle of the road calves
Friesian nothing I nearly want them free as weanlings
AA nothing
HE 100 euro
I will not want to see a JEX or second cross friesian calf in them
To my mind you e just proved my point about the strike that the strike achieved nothing but you look at it differently0 -
I was amused at the BP producer group contract
''I consent to the agreed contribution towards the running costs of Emerald Isle Beef Producers being deducted from my payment dockets.''
After all the s...e spewed against the IFA levy they go and introduce another levy,
You couldn't f...ing make it up
Any producer group take a leave on HE it 5/ head and AA is gone to 6/ head on a smaller carcass. EIF is a levy on all cattle and in the beef system it is collected 2-3 time on the same animalSlava Ukrainii
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Bass Reeves wrote: »Any producer group take a leave on HE it 5/ head and AA is gone to 6/ head on a smaller carcass. EIF is a levy on all cattle and in the beef system it is collected 2-3 time on the same animal
We don't have a levy, do their job right there won't be one0
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