Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

Bass Reeves · 08-09-2022 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589025#Comment_119589025

There is always a head in sand approach, where it was about changes to BPS, last years body that reported on expansion of the dairy herd, etc. There seems to be a fear of if you say or do anything it might speed up.

The solution long-term will be dairy farmers may have to keep calves until 6 weeks of age or 60 kgs LW which would change the complexion of the issue

K.G. · 08-09-2022 12:39pm

Hopefully sexed semen will continue to improve and strategies for improving conception will be found which help to lessen the number of fr and je x bulls born in the country.maybe dairy farmers will have to worry a little less about their kpi s like 6 week calving percentage.sometimes that last 10 % of profit /performance is not worth it

White Clover · 08-09-2022 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589225#Comment_119589225

The quality of the heifer calves will have to improve too.

"Black cat, black kitten"

Bass Reeves · 08-09-2022 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589225#Comment_119589225

Sexed semen is still 10 years away. It was yen years away in 2012 as so that gives you an idea of the problem

Pinsnbushings · 08-09-2022 12:59pm

The ebi of my herd has improved a lot in the last 4 -5 years, the quality of my beef calves has definitely dropped, my older lower ebi br/fr cows are still my best cows, only improvement I've seen is the younger cows tend to have higher percentages of butter fat and protein.

Siamsa Sessions · 08-09-2022 1:17pm

Would I be right in saying most farmers selling bull calves in the mart at 14 days are milking JEx or fairly pure Holsteins?

Or to put it another way, is it harder for dairy-beef buyers to get the better beef calves (incl FR bulls) that are out of British Friesian cows, coz the farmer who bred them is more likely to keep and rear them at home?

If this is the case, then the man buying them at the mart is off to be a bad start already coz there will be a lot more poor calves than good calves.

whelan2 · 08-09-2022 1:47pm

Buyers realise where the good calves are, these calves never go to a mart as they're bought off farm.

davidk1394 · 08-09-2022 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119588576#Comment_119588576

Yeah and 60% BF 40% HOL.

Siamsa Sessions · 08-09-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589571#Comment_119589571

That's slowly dawned on me, as someone who has bought calves at the mart over the past two years.

I have been in touch with two dairy farmers near me for next spring thou and won't be going back to the mart again.

Anto_Meath · 08-09-2022 2:23pm

@Siamsa Sessions you are probably correct, a good 70 % of the calves in the mart any day from Mid February to the start of May, are usually FR bulls of some sort, from Mid April to May the number of AAx would be increasing, but may of these a poor quality too. Of the FR calves again there might be 10% that would be good Fr calves so of the 400 odd calves in the mart there would be less than 30 Frs that are good quality. I have often stood the day and would be lucky to get 5 -6 calves home. I know lads that would be there the same length of time that would have 20+, but when you would be talking to them in a few months they would be giving out about half of them.

The Online is good for buying calves, I can tip over to have a look, make a list the ones I would like then come home, work on the PC and have the mart tipping away on the phone.

alps · 08-09-2022 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583559#Comment_119583559

Screenshot_20220908-162036_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

Might have been too quick to buy. We buy 50%skim product. It may have been worth considering changing to whey. The above what price is not much increased since spring..

mahoney_j · 08-09-2022 5:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589291#Comment_119589291

Sexed semen will be too expensive and too unreliable if we persist with strict calving patterns and pushing cows hard to produce most of there milk from grass and as little supplement as possible …lush ,soft green low dm grass without adequate feeding in parlour and proably a small buffer is required ….sexed semen is working v well in winter milk where diet is consistent

08-09-2022 6:18pm

Is there a case for wagyu off dairy. Very nice quality meat as in tender and tasty.

K.G. · 08-09-2022 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590990#Comment_119590990

I ve a suspicion it might be cheaper than fr bull calves soon.if export goes which inevitably will fr bulls will be impossible to move.then you will have to keep them until somebody will take them off you.some suggested moving insemination start foward 2 weeks so if they repeated you really only lose a weak.some fellas tell me the key to sexed semen is record keeping.only use on good breeding history cows with no problems

mahoney_j · 08-09-2022 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119591422#Comment_119591422

Agree on that …main issue with using sexed widely in compact spring herds is your serving in later April early may when grass is lush …proably low in dm and lots would be feeding little in parlour of grass growth is good ….conception rates would be poor unless you’d be willing to balance the grass with feed in parlour and a buffer at feed face

Pinsnbushings · 08-09-2022 7:28pm

I don't think sexed will sort all the problems, lots of small Angus calves making very poor money in the marts at that time of year, there no better than poor friesans and worse in many cases cause with the mall frame they won't even weigh when killed out.

mr.stonewall · 08-09-2022 7:36pm

The crux of the issue can be broken down into 2 goals . This might help to focus this issue.

1.Beef farmers want an increase weight potential in the stock with a small increase in grading.

2. Dairy famers want ease of calving and short calving interval

How do we get to this middle ground is what we have to aim for.

Base price · 08-09-2022 7:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119590665#Comment_119590665

We used to feed whey based but switched to a 22% skim and then to a 30% skim. We had nutritional issues with the whey based as they would change the % of wheat proteins used in the cmr. The only problem with using 30% skim is that it isn't financially viable anymore for rearing dairy/dairy cross bull calves.

Anto_Meath · 12-09-2022 1:52pm

@jjameson you are correct in that something has to be done to balance what the dairy farmer is producing and what the beef farmers are willing to feed to make a profit, just looking at Carnaross on line there, some 4 -5 month old FR calves struggling to make €100.

The dairy farmer will need to be bring a strong well fed calf to the market or they will be left with them and some lads just wouldn't mind them. I was talking to a few dairy lads at the weekend and the subject of Bord Bia can up, they were saying how Glanbia cutting the milk cheque if there is any issue with the QA on the farm has tightened up lads attitude to Bord Bia and has every lad now trying to get full marks. As you say above if there is abnormalities on farms and the creameries cut the milk cheque then lads would be more careful.

GNWoodd · 12-09-2022 2:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119607474#Comment_119607474

This is what the QA inspections should have been about from day one . With the technology that is available these days , it should be easy to pick out the herds where the ratio of calves alive at six weeks to cows is showing up a discrepancy . Ideally they should still be on the farm of origin until that age but alive in a different herd would be acceptable .

Instead, you have QA inspectors questioning if the farmer knows the protocol for dealing with a broken injection needle . How many animals would be impacted by that ?

White Clover · 12-09-2022 5:02pm

There is probably a good cohort of Dairy Farmers who have only ever seen the small Teagasc/Farmers Journal/New Zealand cow.

Would there be merit in having a few open days on farms where they breed a different type of cow that can milk well and have a decent calf to show these farmers another route?

mahoney_j · 12-09-2022 5:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608624#Comment_119608624

But those are the farmers that are doing things all wrong according to Tegasc teachings 😴😴😴

ABitofsense · 12-09-2022 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608897#Comment_119608897

So your answer is to cull the "nonsensical" suckler herd and stop a farmer in what they enjoy doing in breeding quality animals & take a dairy biproduct of useless calves? It's a dairy problem & should be held accountable for all calves born and not be expecting other farmers to bail them out.

green daries · 13-09-2022 1:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608624#Comment_119608624

Shhhhhhhh don't be giving them ideas

greysides · 13-09-2022 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119607968#Comment_119607968

Hopefully what you suggest will come. Animal Welfare is a hot topic among our European politicians.

If a critical mass of cases becomes a major story (read "international embarrassement"), it will happen quite quickly.

By the same token, a story of a broken needle in someone's burger or steak coming out at the 'right' time in the news cycle could cause big problems too for the industry.