Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

whelan2

I went to my mart on Tuesday with 6 calves was reversing into the bay and a lad came over to me and said he'd buy the calves off me. He said to go home and he would be up in a few hours to get them. He had bought my calves before. We agreed a price before I left. No mart fees.

Base price

jaymla627 wrote: »

Will be gas all the same, the 20 cent a litre profit monitors will be a vivid dream when we all have to bring our bull calves to 12 weeks and hope to get a few pound then our have to hand over a few hundred for the privilege of getting the calf of the books ans keeping the paperwork right for the milk processor...
Can see the Holstein cow throwing out 9000 odd litres year making a comeback when lads finally cotton on carrying 100 good cows and only having to offload 65-70 calves a year as opposed to 200 grass rats and the 150 plus calves that will need new homes that mighten be out their

I never heard them called that before :eek:

TooOldBoots

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Would you not be one of them idiots?

No I'm the idiot with the Suckler cows eating us out of house and home

Say my name

We should donate all this extra meat to be produced here free of charge to the charities.
They seem to be having problems with their regular supply.

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2019/06/10/French-burger-fraud-is-chapter-2-of-the-horsemeat-scandal-campaigners-warn

Sheep breeder

yewtree wrote: »

Sounds like a good scheme to me. Makes far more sense than subsidising suckler cows.
The main reason lads want to keep suckler cows is they look nice. The creation of the suckler herd is largely down to the introduction of milk quotas. Its has nothing to do with economics and nothing to do with the quality of beef. Beef from a jex steer is better in terms of eating quality than that from a chx steer.

How many Jex calves have you to sell next spring,

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

Ireland won't follow that route as it simply won't be allowed to happen, particularly the induced abortions which afaik is already illegal.
Economics of beef production are a part of it as if there was a better price for beef dairy calves would be more viable. A couple of years ago jex made 120 due to beef price being high at the time. As I said previously je influence I believe is also being overplayed.
Go to a goat farm on the continent and what happens the male dairy goats born?

They’re dehorned and fed for goat meat. Presumably for export because I’ve never seen goat meat for sale here. There’s no way that slaughtering at birth would be tolerated.

The issue with Je straws being used is that it takes years for it to be washed out of the herd...those Jex cows are reputed to have serious longevity.
The ones I bred didn’t make it to a second lactation due to scc problems. Their dams were still in the herd when their daughters were gone. The culled Jex went for dog food.

Say my name

On the Greenhouse Gases point of view and for Ireland meeting it's targets.

I roughly ran some rough numbers.

So there's 1.48 million dairy cows in the country.
It's rough and won't be accurate but you get the point.

We'll reduce that by half to get the amount of bull calves born. I know there'll be beef breds born and still borns but this is just an exercise. So that's 740,000 calves.
Now we'll bring those 740,000 animals to factory weight and I'm putting a killout weight of 300kg. Again only this figure is only for this exercise.
So that's 300kg multiplied by 17kg. 17 kg of GHG per kg of carcase is the figure that's used in the countries accounting of GHG. 300kg x 17kg = 5100kg.
Now we multiply the 5100kg by our 740,000 animals. 5100kg x 740,000 = 3,774,000,000kg of GHG.
That's 3.774 billion tons of GHG.

Now considering our national output for 2017 was 60.7 million tons that's a sixty two fold increase in the country's emissions.


The figures the committee used were 14 to 17kg of GHG per kg carcase killed in this country. Well that's according to one of the authors.
It also figured 1kg of GHG per litre of milk produced.

Gawddawggonnit

Maybe Muckit could put up a poll that asks how many dairy farmers would be happy killing newborn male calves?

It’d give an insight into dairy farmers perspective on this.

Say my name

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Maybe Muckit could put up a poll that asks how many dairy farmers would be happy killing newborn male calves?

It’d give an insight into dairy farmers perspective on this.

Can you guarrentee only dairy farmers could answer?

Muckit

Say my name wrote: »

We should donate all this extra meat to be produced here free of charge to charities.

Lads working in the shelters would want to know the heimlich manoeuvre. There'd be a lot of choking on bones.

Muckit

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Maybe Muckit could put up a poll that asks how many dairy farmers would be happy killing newborn male calves?

It’d give an insight into dairy farmers perspective on this.

Haven't a clue about doing polls. Might be just a moderator thing?
Anyways as Say my Name said, no guarantee it will be exclusively answered by dairy farmers.

I don't know what the answer is, but it does seems a bit contradictory to be spreading an image that we as Irish farmers care so much for our animals, but then treating some as a useless by product and disgarding at will.

That then it begs the question, if you produce a certain type animal for whatever reason, have you a certain responsibility for its future welfare?

Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Maybe Muckit could put up a poll that asks how many dairy farmers would be happy killing newborn male calves?

It’d give an insight into dairy farmers perspective on this.

I can tell you now, Dawg, that isn't going to happen!

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

They’re dehorned and fed for goat meat. Presumably for export because I’ve never seen goat meat for sale here. There’s no way that slaughtering at birth would be tolerated.

The issue with Je straws being used is that it takes years for it to be washed out of the herd...those Jex cows are reputed to have serious longevity.
The ones I bred didn’t make it to a second lactation due to scc problems. Their dams were still in the herd when their daughters were gone. The culled Jex went for dog food.

There are also herds who have the type of cross the want whom have repeated buyers for calves, so the fact they may put on condition easily can help in that regards assuming one doesn't go feeding to try and get a big liveweight iykwim

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

Will be gas all the same, the 20 cent a litre profit monitors will be a vivid dream when we all have to bring our bull calves to 12 weeks and hope to get a few pound then our have to hand over a few hundred for the privilege of getting the calf of the books ans keeping the paperwork right for the milk processor...
Can see the Holstein cow throwing out 9000 odd litres year making a comeback when lads finally cotton on carrying 100 good cows and only having to offload 65-70 calves a year as opposed to 200 grass rats and the 150 plus calves that will need new homes that mighten be out their

Jesus jay you're nearly as good as Jack in the journal!
Never had a 9000l cow here and never will be. I'm happy with my 40.4 c for September milk,

Danzy

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

They’re dehorned and fed for goat meat. Presumably for export because I’ve never seen goat meat for sale here. There’s no way that slaughtering at birth would be tolerated.

The issue with Je straws being used is that it takes years for it to be washed out of the herd...those Jex cows are reputed to have serious longevity.
The ones I bred didn’t make it to a second lactation due to scc problems. Their dams were still in the herd when their daughters were gone. The culled Jex went for dog food.

Most were killed here, one fellow in Galway, fell hard in the recession, had a bit of ground got the male goats off a neighbour who was milking Goats, said they work a deal out if he sold them and started contacting restaurants, butchers etc

Made himself a market and a good job out of thin air, he must have balls like a, well a Billy Goat.

Inspired me.

patsy_mccabe

I know someone fattening a hape of goats. You need good fencing for them.

Neddyusa

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/believe-it-or-not-we-never-considered-the-outcome-of-the-dairy-calves-teagasc/

Astonishing statement there from Pat Dillon

Base price

Neddyusa wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/believe-it-or-not-we-never-considered-the-outcome-of-the-dairy-calves-teagasc/

Astonishing statement there from Pat Dillon

He wants all dairy bred bull calves to stay in Ireland and for dairy farmers to make partnerships with beef farmers to buy and rear those calves on to beef.

patsy_mccabe

He never thought dairy cows would have calves. It's a bit like Bertie saying he didn't have a bank account.

Fedlot

Base price wrote: »

He wants all dairy bred bull calves to stay in Ireland and for dairy farmers to make partnerships with beef farmers to buy and rear those calves on to beef.

Had just put this on other thread but better here -it’s worse than a tragic comedy .

“Believe it or not we never considered the outcome of the dairy calves’ – Teagasc”

This statement was made by Teagasc’s Dr. Pat Dillon – the Head of the Animal and Grassland Research and Innovation Programme – during the IFA’s dairy discussion on managing dairy calves which took place today, October 22, in The Hotel Kilmore, Co. Cavan.

At least he has said it and I’ll respect him for that as personally I think this is a monumental statement and honesty is a rare commodity. But holy Jesus , that admission alone tells you that agriculture in Ireland needs a complete investigation and remodeling and not by those currently entrusted with looking after it. What the hell were all the high level committees from the “industry led experts” on foodwise and pathways for growth for? Total incompetence at best if not downright dirty practices and politics to lead farmers to this end result.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

He never thought dairy cows would have calves. It's a bit like Bertie saying he didn't have a bank account.

Where did the farmers think the calves were going go or did they not even consider it.

Neddyusa

wrangler wrote: »

Where did the farmers think the calves were going go or did they not even consider it.

Many dairy farmers didn't consider it. And those that did - and weren't involved in beef, didn't care once the calves went out the gate.
And that's no slight on the dairy man - he's just concerned with what makes money inside his own gate - and naturally so.
It's not the individual dairy farmers responsibility to consider the impact on the beef sector.
Teagasc management on the other hand.....

Gawddawggonnit

Neddyusa wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/believe-it-or-not-we-never-considered-the-outcome-of-the-dairy-calves-teagasc/

Astonishing statement there from Pat Dillon

Jesus wept.

Mr. Dillon and his team should be fired.

Having said that, I’m not convinced that he’s being truthful. WTF were these guys doing whilst copying every move NZ agriculture made?

* Funny statement...’and how we could get enough land for dairy farmers’.
What exactly does that mean??

Say my name

Base price wrote: »

He wants all dairy bred bull calves to stay in Ireland and for dairy farmers to make partnerships with beef farmers to buy and rear those calves on to beef.

That's the type of article where you could take anything from it.

Continuing he said: "I think we need to alleviate our dependence on slaughter and I also think we need to reduce our dependence on calf exports.

However the real critical thing is the welfare of the calves because as an industry we will never justify poor welfare of the calves.

Now what does dependence on slaughter mean? If an animal is born if it dies by human hand it's slaughter.
And reduce our dependence. Most would say calf slaughter is not a thing here and social media platforms from farmers are built on the very principle of putting down such talk. So does that mean he's on about the very act of that animal going to the factory at any age?

Another thing this man is head of teagasc. The be all and end all and our link to government policy. The link that brought about reducing carcase weights, protected urea, low emission slurry spreading, increasing pasture clover content, calling for more tree planting, all in a bid to reduce our Greenhouse gas output from agriculture in this country.
So why on earth would an organization that is actively supposed to be bringing about a reduction in our GHG ouput and helping the government reach national targets, talk from the other side of his mouth and by his very action of speaking about stopping or reducing live exports, bring about an action to multiply our national output of GHG's.
It sounds like he's trying to be all things to everyone and nothing to no one.

It's a great conversation to be having but I don't think people really know what the full implications of what they're talking about.

Hard Knocks

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Mr. Dillon and his team should be fired.

Having said that, I’m not convinced that he’s being truthful. WTF were these guys doing whilst copying every move NZ agriculture made?

* Funny statement...’and how we could get enough land for dairy farmers’.
What exactly does that mean??

Reduce of the tillage, suckler & sheep farmers with dairy farms and dairy rearing farms using the better quality land and planting the lesser land to offset the carbon emissions

Castlekeeper

Base price wrote: »

He wants all dairy bred bull calves to stay in Ireland and for dairy farmers to make partnerships with beef farmers to buy and rear those calves on to beef.

Sure did he forget to suggest that dairy farmers should make partnerships with Irish tillage farmers and pay a fair pride for their feed?
That man just wants to get his Hall Of Fame award at the Positive (Dairy) Farmer's Conference.

Danzy

Neddyusa wrote: »

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/believe-it-or-not-we-never-considered-the-outcome-of-the-dairy-calves-teagasc/

Astonishing statement there from Pat Dillon

Fupping hell.

Castlekeeper

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Reduce of the tillage, suckler & sheep farmers with dairy farms and dairy rearing farms using the better quality land and planting the lesser land to offset the carbon emissions

The blue fields and the green rivers, the empty schools and GAA fields.
All to fluff the egos of the dairy boys in their cow number race, while ensuring cheap debt driven milk for the processors and helping the banks balance sheets.

jaymla627

Castlekeeper wrote: »

The blue fields and the green rivers, the empty schools and GAA fields.
All to fluff the egos of the dairy boys in their cow number race, while ensuring cheap debt driven milk for the processors and helping the banks balance sheets.

Golden opportunity for beef farmers to make hay of the back of the dairy man is just around the corner, bobbying calves and likely further down the line exports will be banned, dairy farmers will either have to rear all their calves for replacements/beef our pay a beef farmer to do it in a contract rearing arrangement

amacca

jaymla627 wrote: »

Golden opportunity for beef farmers to make hay of the back of the dairy man is just around the corner, bobbying calves and likely further down the line exports will be banned, dairy farmers will either have to rear all their calves for replacements/beef our pay a beef farmer to do it in a contract rearing arrangement

I wonder.....or will it be an opportunity for the usual collection of big business interests and their political arse lickers and collaborators + parasitic quangos to make hay off the backs of the primary producer with the larger operators getting thrown some crumbs.