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Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

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    #302
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AulWan wrote: »
    Maybe you should pay a visit to specsavers, cramcycle, you're obviously blind. :rolleyes:
    Considering you missed MBs post referring to cars not bikes, well actually you noticed and then forgot in a subsequent post, and you had to pay "extra attention" so as not to be able to tell the difference between cyclists, not casting aspersions, but maybe we should both get checked out :pac:

    As for Specsavers, not really, eyes checked every year, all still good, have two cameras as well, which catch (in my opinion) a large number of people jumping lights at every junction. If you included amber gambling it would be typical to have 16 motorists per light sequence, excluding amber gamblers, probably about 8 per sequence on my route in and out of work (ie rush hour). Cyclists are not as consistent. Typically it is between zero and one but there are always a few over the commute, there have been occasions where I have seen upto 10, the junction outside UCD would be the worst, where they like to go on the pedestrian light. Outside of rush hour, it probably evens up a bit more to be the same. This is obviously dependent on your commute as I have went other routes where it is far higher, the rock road has certain junctions where more cyclists would break more lights than motorists.

    Both groups do it, there is no denying that, but if you think one group is worse than the other by a measurable amount you are delusional. Motorists are often stopped by the first person who wishes to stop at the lights, cyclists are not. Hence why it appears to some like it is really common among cyclists, when it is doubtful that it is even comparable.

    I could even name the junctions it is most likely to happen, how many cars will go through, which direction is likely to be blocked by people sitting on a yellow box and which ones will mount the kerb to go round the traffic that they cannot legally proceed past anyway.

    Observation is amazing in how it helps you predict behaviour.


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    #303
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
    Stark wrote: »
    The fact that pretty much every country in the world has an "AulWan" campaigning for mandatory registration but not even the most regressive countries have given the idea the time of day should speak volumes.

    It would present a bureaucratic nightmare with very little to be gained.

    Has New South Wales tried it? Then it can't be done. They've adopted just about every half-baked cyclist "control" scheme. Even they baulked at identification schemes.


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    #304
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,582 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it'd be great if there was a government initiative which identified cyclists on the road. they could give them all two wheeled human powered vehicles as a way of marking them out, so people would know they were cyclists.
    does anyone have shane ross's email address? i wish to share my idea with him.


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    #305
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Regs look great too:
    They do indeed
    fotoeng_1.jpg
    If pedestrians had to wear them I might have caught those bastards throwing stones at me, or been able to ID the scum I saw kicking wingmirrors off a row of cars.
    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Apparently the financial cost of implementing and running a registered bike system far outweighs its revenue return...I dont see how though...i have seen +5 cyclists run a single red light at any one time (€40x5 per red light). Bring in a few red light cams, now it makes cents ;)
    That is absolute pittance compared to the amount they would get for jaywalkers, 100+ breaking a single red is common in a city.

    Majority of people want fines imposed for jaywalking

    I always wonder what other genius ideas these reg plate, licence, "road tax" people come up with, they should go on dragons den with them, I find the ludicrous ones the most entertaining. "who has nobody else thought of my oh so excellent idea?!?!"

    -Story behind Mr Reg plate pedestrian is great
    https://www.corriere.it/english/13_agosto_09/fotoeng_e7bd91ea-00c1-11e3-8892-6722e21d9990.shtml?refresh_ce-cp
    Number plate fine for pedestrian - The setting is Genoa. A 20-year-old man received a fine through the post from the municipal police for entering a restricted traffic zone in the city centre. But the man wasn’t driving anything. He was on foot. His “crime” was decorating his backpack with the number plate from a moped his mother had ridden years ago. This tale of bureaucracy gone mad appeared in the Corriere Mercantile newspaper. As the man crossed Via Garibaldi, the boundary of Genoa’s restricted zone, he was photographed by cameras that monitor the traffic. The infringement was duly recorded and the system ground out a fine, which was posted to the man’s address. Later, it turned out that the number plate had been cancelled in 2007. The man’s mother has now presented a formal appeal to the prefecture.


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    #306
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    rubadub wrote: »
    That is absolute pittance compared to the amount they would get for jaywalkers, 100+ breaking a single red is common in a city.
    rubadub wrote: »
    Majority of people want fines imposed for jaywalking

    I agree but there is always the issue of policing the Jaywalkers...just like the most recent fines for cyclists, they were a novelty at the start and now only the odd one or two are dished out by Garda. In most efficient cities they have path side barriers in place particularly at corners to stop pedestrians from entering a road space. This alone would be beneficial for traffic flow. In ireland we favour the pedestrian so they will always have level crossings and the like. I lived in Hong Kong and Singapore where they would have many city center pedestrian flyovers where the pedestrians do not interrupt the flow of traffic. ;)


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    #307
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    CramCycle wrote: »
    The post being referred to talked about cars doing it.

    I know and then the conversation shifted to cyclists doing it.
    CramCycle wrote: »
    You'll probably find most Cyclists would be very in favour of red light cameras. Since we are on the anecdotal bandwagon, in the last few years, I cannot recall a junction where more cyclists have broke the red in comparison to motorists

    "I cannot recall a junction where more cyclists have broke the red in comparison to motorists.", you cannot say that with any honesty behind it and mean it. Motorists, Cyclists and pedestrians alike all know that cyclists have a tendency to run a red light more often the other road users. Yes its lower risk than a motorist doing it but that doesnt take away from the fact that a bicycle is a vehicle and vehicle are to stop at red.
    CramCycle wrote: »
    The look isn't the issue, it's the bureaucracy and idiocy that goes with it. Cars need insurance because the damage they are likely to cause in an accident is above and beyond what most people can afford to repay, this is untrue for cyclists. As for motor tax, taxes are to an extent to be fair and equitable. To make a similar tax for cyclists as you have for motorists, either motor tax has to sky rocket due to the massive subsidies motorists receive or the government would otherwise have to pay cyclists for the money they bring to the economy or reduce from its cost.

    Light reading from 5 years ago: https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-do-bicycles-need-to-become-registered-1.1377562
    CramCycle wrote: »
    What does this even mean, is it a veiled threat, I don't see too many incidents of cyclists killing motorists, nor do I hear tell of many killing pedestrians. So Amen to that, does this mean the two of you are going to make sure you put cyclists at practically zero risk when you are on the road because that is what they do to you.

    No its clearly not a threat and has noting to do with of one road user killing another however it does have to do with giving the same amount of courtesy shown by the other.

    Fact of the day: in 2018 there were 2.68million registered (taxed) vehicles in ireland. In that same year there were 142 fatal incidents on irish roads equaling 1 fatal incident per 18873.24 vehicles (0.00530%). In the same year there was an estimated 65,000 cyclists with 9 fatalities. Thats 1 in every 7222.22 cyclists or 0.01385%.


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    #308
    Roadhawk
    Registered Users Posts: 935 ✭✭✭Roadhawk


    Best video for cyclist call outs goes to...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxsOBnkKTKk


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    #309
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Best video for cyclist call outs goes to...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxsOBnkKTKk

    The very first clip is a white van left hooking a cyclist.
    That account looks for as much click bait as it can find.


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    #310
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,994 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    In most efficient cities they have path side barriers in place particularly at corners to stop pedestrians from entering a road space. This alone would be beneficial for traffic flow.

    Totally regressive approach to city design.


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    #311
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    I agree but there is always the issue of policing the Jaywalkers...just like the most recent fines for cyclists, they were a novelty at the start and now only the odd one or two are dished out by Garda. In most efficient cities they have path side barriers in place particularly at corners to stop pedestrians from entering a road space. This alone would be beneficial for traffic flow. In ireland we favour the pedestrian so they will always have level crossings and the like. I lived in Hong Kong and Singapore where they would have many city center pedestrian flyovers where the pedestrians do not interrupt the flow of traffic. ;)
    Are you suggesting we prioritise road traffic over pedestrians? In our city centres there should be no flow of traffic bar buses, blue badge vehicles and cyclists, everything else, which should have the highest priority, should be a pedestrian.
    Roadhawk wrote: »
    I know and then the conversation shifted to cyclists doing it.
    No it didn't, Aulwahn referred to a post about cars as if it meant cyclists, more of a leap of faith rather than a shift.
    "I cannot recall a junction where more cyclists have broke the red in comparison to motorists.", you cannot say that with any honesty behind it and mean it. Motorists, Cyclists and pedestrians alike all know that cyclists have a tendency to run a red light more often the other road users. Yes its lower risk than a motorist doing it but that doesnt take away from the fact that a bicycle is a vehicle and vehicle are to stop at red.
    I can and do, and my cameras front and back, back me up on this as well. I never said cyclists shouldn't stop at red, I think they should and I think they should be fined for it. Experience has taught me that typically they do, not all the time but more than people who don't cycle think.

    Light reading from 5 years ago: https://www.vancourier.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-do-bicycles-need-to-become-registered-1.1377562
    And this has what to do with it? An anecdote followed by multiple examples of registration being seen as a red herring?
    No its clearly not a threat and has noting to do with of one road user killing another however it does have to do with giving the same amount of courtesy shown by the other.
    It sounded like a threat. I say this as someone who has had someone jump out of their vehicle to deck me for, you guessed it, stopping on red. I have had motorists galore get annoyed with me for stopping on red. I have had several buses pull in on me intentionally to teach me a lesson for blocking their path, interestingly while I was at or close to the speed limit on many occasions.

    [
    Fact of the day: in 2018 there were 2.68million registered (taxed) vehicles in ireland. In that same year there were 142 fatal incidents on irish roads equaling 1 fatal incident per 18873.24 vehicles (0.00530%). In the same year there was an estimated 65,000 cyclists with 9 fatalities. Thats 1 in every 7222.22 cyclists or 0.01385%.
    And here is the fact that you failed to include, how many of those cyclists were killed by motorists, as a matter of interest, and how many of those motoring fatalities were caused by cyclists. Facts are interesting if you show them off in the right light. How many life altering injuries down the hierarchy of risk were caused by both groups. I can assure you, death and injury rates are not where you want to go with this conversation because it doesn't paint a pretty picture for being in or around a motor vehicle.

    Cyclist are no more sh1t than any other type of road user, some people are just sh1t, using the behaviour of a minority to chastise the whole of any group is mindless ranting.


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    #312
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Fact of the day: in 2018 there were 2.68million registered (taxed) vehicles in ireland. In that same year there were 142 fatal incidents on irish roads equaling 1 fatal incident per 18873.24 vehicles (0.00530%). In the same year there was an estimated 65,000 cyclists with 9 fatalities. Thats 1 in every 7222.22 cyclists or 0.01385%.

    I'm genuinely curious to know what you think is inferred or can be concluded from these statistics (apart from the obvious that cyclists are more vulnerable to fatality and we should exercise extra care around them) ?


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    #313
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,151 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    With the dark evenings two cyclists yesterday dressed in dark clothes with no lights going the wrong direction on the Phoenix Park cycle lane. I've a strong front light so saw them and just passed the comment, "Christ, proper ningas" for which they apologised and continued on.


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    #314
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I can and do, and my cameras front and back, back me up on this as well. I never said cyclists shouldn't stop at red, I think they should and I think they should be fined for it. Experience has taught me that typically they do, not all the time but more than people who don't cycle think.

    I tend to agree with you that overall the rule breaking is probably equal and as you said earlier the stats back this up, however there is a hugely disproportionate number of cyclists breaking red lights in the city centre, where there is also the greatest proportion of the most vulnerable road users, pedestrians.

    On my cycle into town the closer i get to Dame St the worse the red light breaking gets, and by Dame St i'm often the only cyclists who actually stops at red lights. I've lost count of the amount of times i've almost been hit at college green by a cyclist on the green pedestrian light since the new system came in, its absolutely endemic. This leads people to think that cyclists are particularly bad because they're more likely to encounter cyclists as pedestrians when in the city centre.

    I also see a lot of cycling on pedestrian streets in the middle of the day and once or twice a week at least i see people cycling the wrong way down a one way street, which i can honestly say i have yet to see a vehicle do in the city centre.


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    #315
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Motorists, Cyclists and pedestrians alike all know that cyclists have a tendency to run a red light more often the other road users.
    Not in my experience, pedestrians are by FAR the roadusers most likely to break a red, its is so tolerated it is laughable. I have seen people do it in dublin city in a very dangerous manner in view of a group of about 5 gardai waiting to cross and the gardai to not even breathe a word.

    Nobody says a thing because of the "they are one of us" mentality, if it was only some minority group doing it you would likely hear all about it. Or if for some reason walking suddenly dropped drastically as a way of getting about -in effect becoming a minority group.


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    #316
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Time wrote: »
    I also see a lot of cycling on pedestrian streets in the middle of the day and once or twice a week at least i see people cycling the wrong way down a one way street, which i can honestly say i have yet to see a vehicle do in the city centre.

    I see drivers going the wrong way on one way streets all the time in the city centre, taking short cuts. At least once a week.


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    #317
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    Effects wrote: »
    I see drivers going the wrong way on one way streets all the time in the city centre, taking short cuts. At least once a week.

    What streets are empty enough during the day that a car can even do that!?!


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    #318
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Time wrote: »
    What streets are empty enough during the day that a car can even do that!?!

    Baggorath place (off Baggot street) it’s quite common. Rat run from fitzWilliam lane. Also at poolbeg street, just past mulligans pub. No unusual to face an oncoming car just around the corner - there is a car park into an apartment complex, right turn only but some motorists couldn’t be arsed and swing left. Just two on my commute. I’m sure there’s plenty more


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    #319
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Baggorath place (off Baggot street) it’s quite common. Rat run from fitzWilliam lane. Also at poolbeg street, just past mulligans pub. No unusual to face an oncoming car just around the corner - there is a car park into an apartment complex, right turn only but some motorists couldn’t be arsed and swing left. Just two on my commute. I’m sure there’s plenty more

    FFS thats ridiculous sure if one car meets another on those it'd be a nightmare. In town the streets between South Georges St and Kildare St are very bad for wrong way cycling but not for cars.


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    #320
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,994 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Not city centre but happens all the time on Royal Canal bank in Phibsborough and it's a real pain as cars going the right away are often the ones bullied into reversing back down the road to make room.

    Chapelizod exit gate in Phoenix Park is another one.


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    #321
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Car parks are a good place to spot motorists driving against explicit one-way directions.


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    #322
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Time wrote: »
    What streets are empty enough during the day that a car can even do that!?!

    Francis St. Cars pull out enough to see if there's anything coming down, see it's clear, then just go for it.

    There was a video posted here last year as well. A car on a one way section of the Phoenix Park, except he was driving on the cycle path and almost hit a cyclist.


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    #323
    work
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭work


    Roadhawk wrote: »
    Best video for cyclist call outs goes to...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxsOBnkKTKk

    Do you mean the single ameboid cyclist creature. Or could it be cyclists are individuals and all act differently. Th is group cycling phobia needs to stop. Simple some cyclists are sh!t and some motorists are sh!t. Poor motorists kill and maim others for cyclists it's negligible.
    So as a law abiding cyclist, one of the ameboid, what exactly is the take away message?


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    #324
    Shai
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    Time wrote: »
    What streets are empty enough during the day that a car can even do that!?!

    Lincoln Lane. Taxi drivers seem to love using it as a shortcut to get onto the quays. Spotted it a few times on Inchicore Road as well.


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    #325
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    AulWan wrote: »
    I can provide you with a copy of the receipt for the €400 that I had to pay to replace a wing mirror, if you'd like to give me your address. The cyclist who knocked it off and didn't bother his arse stopping, didn't appear to have hurt himself doing it. I was stopped at the time, he was weaving through traffic lanes.

    I'd be delighted if you could tell me how he could be legally identified, so I could send the bill on to him.

    Before you do that, can you help me identify the dickhead motorists who have over the years caused about 600euro in damage to my car just by them getting out of their cars!


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    #326
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    What has motorists damaging your car, got to do with cyclists damaging cars?

    The fact that motorists damage other motorist cars too, does not excuse cyclists who do it.

    It's just another pathetic attempt to deflect from bad cyclist behaviour.

    I also suggest you invest in a dash cam that switches on and starts recording instantly if something bumps off your car, I have one I can recommend. At least then you have a chance of catching the reg plate.


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    #327
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    AulWan wrote: »
    What has motorists damaging your car, got to do with cyclists damaging cars?

    The fact that motorists damage other motorist cars too, does not excuse cyclists who do it.

    It's just another pathetic attempt to deflect from bad cyclist behaviour.

    I also suggest you invest in a dash cam that switches on and starts recording instantly if something bumps off your car, I have one I can recommend. At least then you have a chance of catching the reg plate.

    Because you offering to send a bill to a random person who cycles for damage another cyclist allegedly caused to your car is real relevant.

    You wouldn't offer to send a bill to a random motorist on the motor forum, you'd be laughed out of it and rightly so. But yet here you are on the cycling forum.....
    :rolleyes:

    Your reg plate idea is stupid, its actually beyond stupid.
    All it shows is you have a massive hatred against cyclists so much so that you keep proposing a completely silly idea, its fairly tragic

    I can see it now, kids as young as 3/4 with reg plates...after all you want to be able to see who caused the damage to your car
    :rolleyes:

    bike-number-plates.jpg
    Of course reading them might be a awful problem :pac::pac:

    Sure you can always stick bigger plates on adult bikes, of course if they don't have a basket at the front or back it might be a problem
    494025.jpg

    There's a damn good reason why you don't see your ideal being rolled out in the Netherlands, because its just that silly


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    #328
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,582 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Car parks are a good place to spot motorists driving against explicit one-way directions.
    i do this all the time in certain car parks.


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    #329
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Cloudio9 wrote: »
    Of course she reacted that way, that's a really negative way to engage with a complete stranger.

    Ah here. The lady is a danger to herself taking to the roads if she can't balance on a bike.

    How would you have phrased it?


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    #330
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,994 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Ah here. The lady is a danger to herself taking to the roads if she can't balance on a bike.

    How would you have phrased it?

    I probably would have STFU to be honest. It's her own business. If it was a 6 foot plus lad, would you have phrased it the same way?


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    #331
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Stark wrote: »
    I probably would have STFU to be honest. It's her own business. If it was a 6 foot plus lad, would you have phrased it the same way?

    I didn't phrase anything - I wasn't there.

    But I'd have no problem asking a similar question of whomever - are you sure you should be cycling on city center roads if you're incapable of balancing while moving slowly!?

    Might not be the safest place to be.


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