Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

CramCycle

Time wrote: »

I tend to agree with you that overall the rule breaking is probably equal and as you said earlier the stats back this up, however there is a hugely disproportionate number of cyclists breaking red lights in the city centre, where there is also the greatest proportion of the most vulnerable road users, pedestrians.

Quite possibly, my own experience seems to indicate that the closer you are to a 3rd level institution, the larger the % of cyclists breaking reds.

I also see a lot of cycling on pedestrian streets in the middle of the day and once or twice a week at least i see people cycling the wrong way down a one way street, which i can honestly say i have yet to see a vehicle do in the city centre.

I have seen quite a few, certain spots it is a regular occurrence with people trying to beat any cars before they turn in and block them.

AulWan wrote: »

Maybe you should pay a visit to specsavers, cramcycle, you're obviously blind. :rolleyes:

Done it on the way home last night.

Number of red light runners (excluding junctions where it was green on approach or no one broke a red)
Motorist Cyclist
6 1
4 0 (although there was one who would have given the chance)
2 0
4 0
2 1
2 0

It was quieter than usual and this was a surprisingly low number from both groups on the way home. Typically i would have expected the numbers for both to have been twice if not three times this. The majority of motorists who ran reds were on roads crossing the main road or on filter lights. Cyclists were all with the main road. Other points of note where 3 cyclists on the foot path or against traffic on the bike path, 8 cars parked in no parking areas (mandatory bike lanes, corners etc.). Also, how can no one use indicators properly at roundabouts, even the GAI bus in front of me indicated right to go straight through.

This morning was much the same, I presume it is the school break.

The most notable one this morning was at the Stillorgan crossing of the N11, Garda MB rider waiting at the lights on the hunt for bus lane users I imagine had two cars through one set of lights who were not amber gamblers but straight red runners. Traffic had to wait for the last one to speed up through the junction. I pointed at them and you could see the consideration of hitting the lights and then just not bothering, he shrugged and drove on. Should be fined for driving without due consideration and attention. If they couldn't see him as they came through the red light, they should not be driving.

SusieBlue

I saw a woman (not for the first time) this morning, weaving through rush hour traffic in the pouring rain carrying a small baby no older than 6 months old in a forward facing sling.
Absolutely reckless behavior, even the most minor of falls or collisions could crush that baby to death if the woman fell forward or off the bike. I told her if I see her doing it again I'm calling the Gards but she wasn't remotely interested or bothered. The baby was also getting soaked because he/she had no shelter from the rain.
So bloody dangerous and selfish.

AulWan

Cabaal wrote: »

Because you offering to send a bill to a random person who cycles for damage another cyclist allegedly caused to your car is real relevant.

You wouldn't offer to send a bill to a random motorist on the motor forum, you'd be laughed out of it and rightly so. But yet here you are on the cycling forum.....
:rolleyes:

Your reg plate idea is stupid, its actually beyond stupid.
All it shows is you have a massive hatred against cyclists so much so that you keep proposing a completely silly idea, its fairly tragic

I can see it now, kids as young as 3/4 with reg plates...after all you want to be able to see who caused the damage to your car
:rolleyes:

...

There's a damn good reason why you don't see your ideal being rolled out in the Netherlands, because its just that silly

Do you always have to be so attacking and childish in your posts? It makes me wonder if you're old enough for your parents taken the stabilisers off your bike yet.

Plus you have made some massive, eroneous assumptions.

I have never suggested that bikes should have registration plates. Not once.

You (and others) jumped to that conclusion because I suggested cyclists should be identifiable, in the event of an accident or incident occuring. How that could be achieved was not discussed because you immediately got all defensive and started shouting about reg plates.

I do not have an irrational hatred of cyclists. I do get annoyed by the type of cycling fanatics who will defend bad behaviour by cyclists to the end even when it is indefensible to any other reasonable person. And they do it by pointing their fingers at other road users and shout "well, they do it too!" *sulk, pout*.

Hopefully you'll calm down when school is back next week.

Carry on.

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Attack the post, not the poster, handbags down.

AulWan

CramCycle wrote: »

Quite possibly, my own experience seems to indicate that the closer you are to a 3rd level institution, the larger the % of cyclists breaking reds.

I have seen quite a few, certain spots it is a regular occurrence with people trying to beat any cars before they turn in and block them.

Done it on the way home last night.

Number of red light runners (excluding junctions where it was green on approach or no one broke a red)
Motorist Cyclist
6 1
4 0 (although there was one who would have given the chance)
2 0
4 0
2 1
2 0

It was quieter than usual and this was a surprisingly low number from both groups on the way home. Typically i would have expected the numbers for both to have been twice if not three times this. The majority of motorists who ran reds were on roads crossing the main road or on filter lights. Cyclists were all with the main road. Other points of note where 3 cyclists on the foot path or against traffic on the bike path, 8 cars parked in no parking areas (mandatory bike lanes, corners etc.). Also, how can no one use indicators properly at roundabouts, even the GAI bus in front of me indicated right to go straight through.

This morning was much the same, I presume it is the school break.

The most notable one this morning was at the Stillorgan crossing of the N11, Garda MB rider waiting at the lights on the hunt for bus lane users I imagine had two cars through one set of lights who were not amber gamblers but straight red runners. Traffic had to wait for the last one to speed up through the junction. I pointed at them and you could see the consideration of hitting the lights and then just not bothering, he shrugged and drove on. Should be fined for driving without due consideration and attention. If they couldn't see him as they came through the red light, they should not be driving.

I would like to provide you with similar stats from my commute home last night, but unfortunately I was behind the wheel of a 1 ton machine and my attention was focused on keeping my eyes on the road and anticipating the actions of other road users rather then counting the number of rules they broke.

(Though I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any cars breaking red lights, but didn't see any - sorry).

magicbastarder

AulWan wrote: »

(Though I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any cars breaking red lights, but didn't see any - sorry).

i see it all the time, absolutely all the time; when i'm driving or cycling.
obviously, in heavy traffic i'm more likely to see it when cycling because i'm usually at the junction, rather than maybe 50m back as you often find yourself in a car.

AulWan

CramCycle wrote: »

MOD VOICE: Attack the post, not the poster, handbags down.

Oh so you get to attack me, but when I respond in kind, you put on your MOD voice?

Have it your way so. I'm out.

CramCycle

AulWan wrote: »

I would like to provide you with similar stats from my commute home last night, but unfortunately I was behind the wheel of a 1 ton machine and my attention was focused on keeping my eyes on the road and anticipating the actions of other road users rather then counting the number of rules they broke.

(Though I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any cars breaking red lights, but didn't see any - sorry).

It wasn't exactly challenging, I was sitting at a red light and counting, hardly a great distraction. Are you sure you are safe driving a car if this would be considered a great distraction? Hopefully we commute in different parts of the country, because it really seems like you struggle with even rudimentary tasks while driving and have to pay extra attention to notice identifiable info about other road users. I mean I have a camera but I notice other road users, some more memorable than others but I can give a half decent description of them if needs be. Really good 155 driver last night was 50+, wearing a baseball cap which I thought unusual, slouched over a bit but shorter than me. The majority of red light runners in cars were either middle aged or older females or young (sub 30) males. The cyclist who ran the first set of lights had runners, blue football socks to his knees. The next one was younger, early 20s on a town bike. My attention was on everything because as a vulnerable road user, not paying attention increases my risk of an accident. All of that info is just random bits that I remember and i have a terrible memory. I was paying enough attention to notice every bus user who was about to step out before they did and slow down accordingly, notice every twitch of the wheel of car that went past that meant that they were going to turn or pull in without indicating. I noticed alot of pedestrians walking on the bike path in the dark well before i got to them (and hopped into the bus lane rather than being a d1ck), I noticed 3 cyclists with sub standard light s (IMO), another 3 with just reflectors and hi vis. One guy had just forgotten to turn on his rear light, I let him know as I passed. I noticed at least 20 drivers with only DRLS, another 10 with one busted dim and one with only one brake light, this again was far lower in number for all the groups I mentioned than normal. I seen 8 pedestrians walk across the N11 without a pedestrian light,3 were away from junctions.

You are also in a car so I imagine, at many junctions you were not at the front on a red light so possibly missed infractions by several road users, but I will be honest, I don't expect people to remember these details, i had to sit and think because they were not important to me but I would expect people to notice them at the time because if you don't notice the obvious, what hope have you of the not so obvious.

cdaly_

SusieBlue wrote: »

I saw a woman (not for the first time) this morning, weaving through rush hour traffic in the pouring rain carrying a small baby no older than 6 months old in a forward facing sling.
Absolutely reckless behavior, even the most minor of falls or collisions could crush that baby to death if the woman fell forward or off the bike. I told her if I see her doing it again I'm calling the Gards but she wasn't remotely interested or bothered. The baby was also getting soaked because he/she had no shelter from the rain.
So bloody dangerous and selfish.

Probably the safest place to be in a fall. Mother will use arms and legs to protect the baby.

Incidentally, did you know that the majority of child deaths in Ireland occur in cars? You should consider that before you recklessly strap your kids in...

CramCycle

AulWan wrote: »

Oh so you get to attack me, but when I respond in kind, you put on your MOD voice?

Have it your way so. I'm out.

MOD VOICE: Apologies if I did, I cannot see it, Lets take it to PM and you can explain where I missed it. Do not discuss further in thread.

AndrewJRenko

07Lapierre wrote: »

If only the Gardai would accept video evidence from GoPro’s...it could then be enforced by everyone.

They do accept evidence. I've reported a few drivers for mobile phone use, and Gardai have issued FCPNs. None of my cases have gone to Court.



It is a fairly painful process though, with long wait times on the Garda TrafficWatch phone lines, delays in the local station following up, the difficulty in finding a time that suits you and the assigned Garda's shift to give a statement, the hour or so that it takes to give a hand-written statement to the Garda, and the chasing of the Garda after a month or two to hear the outcome.


Several of the UK forces provide an online portal to streamline the whole process, so you basically submit the video and sit back and wait to hear of the prosecution. Six points and a hefty fine for phone use over there.

magicbastarder wrote: »

by gum, i didn't realise my cycling shorts made me smug.

They make you sNug, not smug.

RobbieMD wrote: »

Any idea how other jurisdictions work around it? I can see the issue our AG had with the proposed legislation, and this latest proposal seems like a sensible alternative.

Not really, but it seems to happen without full or drama in several US states and in the UK. Check out @trafficwmp on Twitter to see how they frequenty prosecute motorists for this particular offence.

AulWan wrote: »

If, by some stretch of the imagination, this did actually happen, and its not just your usual need to defend and justify all bad behaviour by cyclists, then the odds of a car being an unregistered write off and unidentifiable, is very, very small.

Whereas EVERY cyclist is unregistered and unidentifiable.

Weak excuse.

Really? Very, very small? Is that based on anything in particular?



And what particularly makes cyclists unidentifiable compared to say, pedestrians? Do all pedestrians need reg numbers now to cover the cases where they step out in front of me without looking?

AndrewJRenko

AulWan wrote: »

(Though I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any cars breaking red lights, but didn't see any - sorry).

What's your route? I'd be happy to spend a bit of time at those junctions and show you the videos of drivers breaking red lights. I should be able to pick out a good number with the phones in their hands. If it's in the 30 kmph zone, I might even catch a few visibly speeding, to confirm the RSA report issued recently showing that 98% of drivers break urban speed limits.

AndrewJRenko

AulWan wrote: »

I do not have an irrational hatred of cyclists. I do get annoyed by the type of cycling fanatics who will defend bad behaviour by cyclists to the end even when it is indefensible to any other reasonable person. And they do it by pointing their fingers at other road users and shout "well, they do it too!" *sulk, pout*.

It's not so much 'they do it too' as 'they do it so much better that they kill a couple of people each week' *sulk, pout*.

magicbastarder

as AulWan said 'I'm out', i suspect there's no point asking questions of him or her now.

SusieBlue

cdaly_ wrote: »

Probably the safest place to be in a fall. Mother will use arms and legs to protect the baby.

Incidentally, did you know that the majority of child deaths in Ireland occur in cars? You should consider that before you recklessly strap your kids in...

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?
if she is hit by a car or even cycles over a deep pothole and falls off, she won't be able to save the child. The sheer force will cause her to fall on top of the child. Her weight alone would be enough to cause serious injury or even death.
Its beyond reckless and dangerous.

This thread isn't about car safety so I don't see what relevance that has.

Seth Brundle

SusieBlue wrote: »

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?
if she is hit by a car or even cycles over a deep pothole and falls off, she won't be able to save the child. The sheer force will cause her to fall on top of the child. Her weight alone would be enough to cause serious injury or even death.
Its beyond reckless and dangerous.

This thread isn't about car safety so I don't see what relevance that has.

What exactly is she doing wrong or illegal?
If your answer is that she us not doing anything wrong or illegal then it's none of your business!
You're accusing her of being a bad mother because of a possibility and presumably your bias against cyclists.
Would you be as militant if she was walking along a main road? She could get knocked down and we know that most pedestrians will cross a road illegally when it suits them!

AndrewJRenko

SusieBlue wrote: »

I saw a woman (not for the first time) this morning, weaving through rush hour traffic in the pouring rain carrying a small baby no older than 6 months old in a forward facing sling.
Absolutely reckless behavior, even the most minor of falls or collisions could crush that baby to death if the woman fell forward or off the bike. I told her if I see her doing it again I'm calling the Gards but she wasn't remotely interested or bothered. The baby was also getting soaked because he/she had no shelter from the rain.
So bloody dangerous and selfish.

I saw loads of these in Amsterdam. It did cause me a double-take tbh, because I haven't seen it before, but they all seemed to survive. No babies drowned in the Amsterdam drizzle. No-one got crushed.



Are you against people walking with babies in slings, given that the most minor fall could crush the baby to death, apparently?

Time wrote: »

What streets are empty enough during the day that a car can even do that!?!

Shai wrote: »

Lincoln Lane. Taxi drivers seem to love using it as a shortcut to get onto the quays. Spotted it a few times on Inchicore Road as well.

Hang out on Richmond Avenue South in Rathmines around school opening or closing time and watch the parents from Alex save themselves three minutes by cutting down the one-way section. The photo shows a JCB driving down the one-way section while loads of kids walk up to school.


Winton Ave off Appian Way is another spot used as a rat run.

AndrewJRenko

SusieBlue wrote: »

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?

Same way as any walking parent can use their arms and legs to save the baby if they trip on a kerb.

SusieBlue

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes and she appears to take very little care of where she's going. I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago. She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.
The way she goes about would be dangerous even without the baby in her arms. If she falls off that bike, which she inevitably will one of these days with the sheer disregard she has for her own safety, she'll cause serious harm to the baby.

I'm not talking about someone going for a leisurely Sunday cycle through the local park with their baby, this is rush hour traffic I'm talking about.

I thought this thread was about cyclists calling out fellow cyclists for dangerous behaviour but there's a lot of fixation here on pedestrians/motorists also doing dangerous things. I don't think anyone is denying they do, but its not the topic of the thread

Ready4Boarding

droidus wrote: »

I was stopped at a set of traffic lights yesterday and a cyclist blew through red light. A driver actually rolled down his window and said to me " Thats what gives you guys a bad name"

You would have been justified if you punched him in the face.

Imagine actually believing that! Astonishing.

cdaly_

SusieBlue wrote: »

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes and she appears to take very little care of where she's going. I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago. She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.
The way she goes about would be dangerous even without the baby in her arms. If she falls off that bike, which she inevitably will one of these days with the sheer disregard she has for her own safety, she'll cause serious harm to the baby.

I'm not talking about someone going for a leisurely Sunday cycle through the local park with their baby, this is rush hour traffic I'm talking about.

I thought this thread was about cyclists calling out fellow cyclists for dangerous behaviour but there's a lot of fixation here on pedestrians/motorists also doing dangerous things. I don't think anyone is denying they do, but its not the topic of the thread

Ha! I forgot the thread title!

I still maintain that on her front is the safest place for the baby to be if she has to bring the baby. Her behaviour may increase her risk of a fall 'tis true...

07Lapierre

SusieBlue wrote: »

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?
if she is hit by a car or even cycles over a deep pothole and falls off, she won't be able to save the child. The sheer force will cause her to fall on top of the child. Her weight alone would be enough to cause serious injury or even death.
Its beyond reckless and dangerous.

This thread isn't about car safety so I don't see what relevance that has.

If this lady was walking and she tripped, she “could” fall on top of the baby? The risk is about the same while cycling. I doubt she was cycling at 50kph! I suspect she was cycling a lot slower than that.

All activities have riscjs but as usual, the risks associated with cycling are always blow completely out of proportion.

CramCycle

SusieBlue wrote: »

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes

So what? most of the country does not have cycle lanes.

I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago.

Go to the gardai with this, you see her regularly, she clearly must live or work in or near the area. Stop, take a video on your phone, bring it to the Garda station and report it. Explain to the Garda that you understand that resources are limited but that she is carrying a child while breaking these rules and is a daner to herself, the child and others.

She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.

Again, doesn't matter. The fact that you could see her proves this point.

I'm not talking about someone going for a leisurely Sunday cycle through the local park with their baby, this is rush hour traffic I'm talking about.

I commuted with my son on the bike in rush hour traffic loads of times without issue. I didn't cycle like the way the one you are describing did but there is no risk to having a child on a bike.

I thought this thread was about cyclists calling out fellow cyclists for dangerous behaviour but there's a lot of fixation here on pedestrians/motorists also doing dangerous things. I don't think anyone is denying they do, but its not the topic of the thread

I think those posts are pointing out the pointlessness of going after many of the incidents full force by the Gardai when they don't even go after the ones that are far more likely to cause a death or serious injury.

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

Imagine actually believing that! Astonishing.

I had a driver wind down his window to tell me I should have a bell on my bike, nothing should surprise you when commuting.

Wishbone Ash

Time wrote: »

.... which i can honestly say i have yet to see a vehicle do in the city centre.

Happens all the time on Green Street in the city center. It's one way southbound but I regularly encounter vehicles coming against me. To add insult to injury, most of them expect those of us going the correct way to take evasive action.

AndrewJRenko

SusieBlue wrote: »

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes and she appears to take very little care of where she's going. I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago. She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.

Congrats on seeing her all the same without any reflective clothing.

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

Imagine actually believing that! Astonishing.

The best quick response is something along the lines of 'did the drivers who killed two people last weekend give all you drivers a bad name?'.

Ready4Boarding

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The best quick response is something along the lines of 'did the drivers who killed two people last weekend give all you drivers a bad name?'.

You, I remember, were one of the people to thank that odious post.

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i do this all the time in certain car parks.

It seems to be really common. I didn't really notice until a few years ago. I guess I don't park in car parks all that much.

tomasrojo

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

You, I remember, were one of the people to thank that odious post.

It's just exaggeration, a common rhetorical device.

Wishbone Ash

I was travelling southbound on the R127 this morning (between Skerries and Lusk) and met a cyclist coming towards me on the wrong side of the road. (For those not familiar with it, it's a busy ordinary 2 way road with no hard shoulder.)

I raised my hand as if to say 'WTF are you doing' and she did the same in response. You'd wonder what is going on inside the heads of such people.

CramCycle

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I was travelling southbound on the R127 this morning (between Skerries and Lusk) and met a cyclist coming towards me on the wrong side of the road. (For those not familiar with it, it's a busy ordinary 2 way road with no hard shoulder.)

I raised my hand as if to say 'WTF are you doing' and she did the same in response. You'd wonder what is going on inside the heads of such people.

Alot of people are brought up with the opinion that cyclists and pedestrians are the same, therefore cyclists should go against traffic. I found this growing up in rural Longford that a small number of people would educate you and tell you that you should be on the other side for safety. I thought it died out but I am sure some still think this way. Over the years I have had people tell me I was allowed run reds as a cyclist, not joking, actually trying to be helpful, motorists and pedestrians. It's one of the main reasons I think a course in national school and one as part of the junior cycle makes the most sense, so everyone knows the do's and don'ts of road use as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist. My only concern is how wrong they would get it.