The strange affair of Dimmy Tooley

irishgeo · 23-10-2019 9:39pm

expectationlost wrote: »

a 5th by-election in Clare? why hasn't Timmy Dooley resigned seeing he has already admitted to what he accused of doing

considering he broke this article in constitution i would be resigning.

11 1° All questions in each House shall, save as otherwise provided by this Constitution, be determined by a majority of the votes of the members present and voting other than the Chairman or presiding member.

Plumbthedepths · 23-10-2019 9:55pm

irishgeo wrote: »

considering he broke this article in constitution i would be resigning.

Irish politicians don't resign no matter what they do wrong. Fraud is ok, improper voting is ok, corruption is ok, links to terrorists is ok, bribery is ok. Telling lies is definitely ok, according to Pat Rabbitte. Don't think I left anything out.

McMurphy · 23-10-2019 10:17pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Irish politicians don't resign no matter what they do wrong. Fraud is ok, improper voting is ok, corruption is ok, links to terrorists is ok, bribery is ok. Telling lies is definitely ok, according to Pat Rabbitte. Don't think I left anything out.

Being named in Stubbs Gazette as a debt defaulter.

irishgeo · 23-10-2019 11:02pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Being named in Stubbs Gazette as a debt defaulter.

im pretty sure thats a automatic resignation

Plumbthedepths · 23-10-2019 11:29pm

irishgeo wrote: »

im pretty sure thats a automatic resignation

Pretty sure J Reilly was named in Stubbs, he didn't resign.

Colonel Claptrap · 24-10-2019 7:16am

Back to the matter at hand. The Ceann Comhairle's report is due to be published today along with a Dail debate on the matter.

Predictions?

I can't see anything more than a slap on the wrist being dealt out. There doesn't seem to be any obvious sanctions available to the Ceann.

MadYaker · 24-10-2019 7:29am

All the main parties being involved means there’s unlikely to be serious consequences. They’ll just want to move on and forget this ever happened.

Sir Oxman · 24-10-2019 7:50am

blanch152 wrote: »

It's unbelievable.

People were all for the guillotine and then disappeared when the bould Gerry was implicated. Then again, he probably couldn't remember which seat was his.

I'm non-party so extrapolating like that isn't a good look.
Maybe the party apparatchiks should be looking at themselves on here for sure...

Everyone/ every party involved is at fault and no, the 'lesser wrong' of proximity voting still isn't right no matter how 'huge' the Dail chamber is supposed to be (hint - it's not and what if it was?)

earlytobed · 24-10-2019 8:34am

Timmy is often on the likes of The Tonight Show, calling out the Govt on various issues.
Will be hard to take him seriously now

is_that_so · 24-10-2019 9:03am

A former Dail clerk and academic's view of it with a new word - seriatim(for me).

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/votegate-represents-carelessness-and-nothing-more-1.4060562

McMurphy · 24-10-2019 9:23am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Back to the matter at hand. The Ceann Comhairle's report is due to be published today along with a Dail debate on the matter.

Predictions?

I can't see anything more than a slap on the wrist being dealt out. There doesn't seem to be any obvious sanctions available to the Ceann.

Too many implicated across all of the party's, with the result on neither being able to claim the upper hand.

Nothing more than a vow to look at things and protocol to be more vigorously enforced going forward, with perhaps a small bit of window dressing for optics.

Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dee.

Joke shop.

suicide_circus · 24-10-2019 9:35am

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Irish politicians don't resign no matter what they do wrong. Fraud is ok, improper voting is ok, corruption is ok, links to terrorists is ok, bribery is ok. Telling lies is definitely ok, according to Pat Rabbitte. Don't think I left anything out.

Irish politics is utterly filthy. "Falling on ones sword" is a totally foreign concept. No honour amongst thieves.

blanch152 · 24-10-2019 10:12am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Too many implicated across all of the party's, with the result on neither being able to claim the upper hand.

Nothing more than a vow to look at things and protocol to be more vigorously enforced going forward, with perhaps a small bit of window dressing for optics.

Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dee.

Joke shop.

It is clear that the obfuscation of the line between two different offences is working.

Being present is the first requirement. Those who were absent from the Dail when their vote was recorded have the greatest amount of explaining to do, equally those who voted for them have to explain. This is a serious breach of the Constitution. If any of the five Ministers' diaries show they were elsewhere when votes were taken, they have particularly serious questions to answer. Dooley, Collins and Chambers have already admitted to malpractice. A suspension from the Dail for a short period would be an appropriate penalty.

The lesser offence of being present but getting someone else to press the button while you continued your phone call/conversation in the chamber is more reflective of carelessness as mentioned in the Irish Times article by the former clerk of the Dail.

Plumbthedepths · 24-10-2019 10:17am

Shane Ross off the hook it seems. He voted against his own drink drive legislation from his own seat but voted for it in Catherine Zappones seat. Strange one though.

Colonel Claptrap · 24-10-2019 10:34am

I was in the viewing gallery above the chamber yesterday.

Two things stood out to me.

The chamber itself is tiny. It looks a hell of a lot bigger on television. During debates there were a lot of people coming and going. Not just TDs but also civil servants, ushers and clerks. There were side conversations going on all over the place. And the Ceann and clerk seemed distracted by TD's having a quiet word with them. The whole thing resembled an ant's nest. A lot of disorganised movement and shuffling. It didn't look easy to return to a seat a few rows up, without having to move people out of your way in the aisles, then asking people to stand so that you can shuffle over to your seat.
This was during a relatively minor debate. I can only imagine the flurry of activity during a vote when all are present.

Second observation. The division lobbies are directly behind the back row seats. I don't know why but I always pictured these as seperate corridors outside the chamber. They are merely 2 posts where deputies line up and a roll call takes place as they pass through and retake their seats. Not very sophisticated, but it would cut out some of the nonsense we're seeing this week.

I can understand why deputies are shouting up to colleagues to press their button. But it's against the rules so should be stamped out.

Voting for somebody who is outside the locked chamber doors is inexcusable if you ask me.

McMurphy · 24-10-2019 12:45pm

Just waiting on the ethics committee then, seeing as the clerk seems to have taken the two FF lads at their word?

Word being: one didn't know the other hadn't returned to the chamber, and he voted six, SIX times in his absence.

Joke shop.

salmocab · 24-10-2019 12:48pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Shane Ross off the hook it seems. He voted against his own drink drive legislation from his own seat but voted for it in Catherine Zappones seat. Strange one though.

Sounds like a lot of people just hit the nearest button

suicide_circus · 24-10-2019 12:51pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Just waiting on the ethics committee then, seeing as the clerk seems to have taken the two FF lads at their word?

Word being: one didn't know the other hadn't returned to the chamber, and he voted six, SIX times in his absence.

Joke shop.

The Dail has an ethics committee???!

Plumbthedepths · 24-10-2019 12:57pm

salmocab wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of people just hit the nearest button

Ross hit two buttons, his and Zappones. A Nil for his own vote and a Ta for Zappone. Not sure if Zappone was in the chamber or not, personally whether she was or not is irrelevant despite some of the commentary here.

McMurphy · 24-10-2019 12:58pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

The Dail has an ethics committee???!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/maria-bailey-resigns-as-chair-of-oireachtas-ethics-committee-1.3992405

suicide_circus · 24-10-2019 1:00pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/maria-bailey-resigns-as-chair-of-oireachtas-ethics-committee-1.3992405

lol at least she resigned from it

McMurphy · 24-10-2019 1:04pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

lol at least she resigned from it

But not because of ethics, because of exposure.

Odyssey 2005 · 24-10-2019 1:05pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

lol at least she resigned from it

She was hardly going to be sacked from it

:)

James Brown · 24-10-2019 1:53pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is clear that the obfuscation of the line between two different offences is working.
...

No. It's like the fairy tale they wrote and they choose to believe. The public won't make the distinction. I don't see them as two different anything.

No disciplinary action recommended over Dáil voting
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/1023/1085264-dail-voting/

Expected but farcical nonetheless.
Likely them all being at it excused Dooley.

Boggles · 24-10-2019 2:52pm

It wasn't a big deal, it wasn't based on malice or fraud.

Bad practice that had crept in.

Very simple solutions for it though.

bladespin · 24-10-2019 3:13pm

Boggles wrote: »

It wasn't a big deal, it wasn't based on malice or fraud.

Bad practice that had crept in.

Very simple solutions for it though.

Maybe but leaves some gaping questions about anything that passed through, especially anything with a narrow majority.

Especially when you see the Adams thing above, TD not even there.

James Brown · 24-10-2019 3:31pm

Boggles wrote: »

It wasn't a big deal, it wasn't based on malice or fraud.

Bad practice that had crept in.

Very simple solutions for it though.

Depends on how seriously you take anything the government or any politician votes on.
Also we don't know the thinking behind each incident.

realdanbreen · 24-10-2019 4:43pm

earlytobed wrote: »

Timmy is often on the likes of The Tonight Show, calling out the Govt on various issues.
Will be hard to take him seriously now

You mean people used take him seriously before this!:D:D

expectationlost · 24-10-2019 6:17pm

so what Timmy Dooley is saying is he did not ask Niall Collins to "vote for me", he might have said "look after me there"

Pintman Paddy Losty · 24-10-2019 7:31pm

bladespin wrote: »

Maybe but leaves some gaping questions about anything that passed through, especially anything with a narrow majority.

Especially when you see the Adams thing above, TD not even there.

Hi, what vote passed with a narrow majority that concerns you?

The strange affair of Dimmy Tooley

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