The strange affair of Dimmy Tooley

blanch152 · 18-12-2019 3:46pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Still sending rambling missives from a rabbit hole in that forest you are attempting to use as distraction with how doors are closed and e.voting.

The one specific Standing Order that covers casting of votes is Standing Order 77. The same Standing Order 77 you ran away from weeks ago when your whole shtik on the legality of voting impersonation was shown for what it was.
There is nothing in Standing Order 77 that needs detailed analysis and where you got the idea into your head that I "backed down from the position that it is illegal" to partake in voting impersonation beats me.

Standing Order 77 states : "members present and voting means members present and casting an affirmative or negative vote".
If nothing else the "an" (a determiner, which by definition is the form of the indefinite article used before words beginning with a vowel sound)in this case the vowel A, blows your whole rubbish on the legality of voting impersonation to shreds.

Standing Order 77 clearly states a member being present and casting A vote either for or against a motion. Not present and voting as often as you like impersonating others voters. It`s a simple as that.

Voting impersonation is a criminal offence unless you are granted permission to do so by proxy so unless you can find something in the Constitution or even Dáil Standing Orders, that grants TD`s open ended proxies to vote on others behalf then both you and FG`s argument of it being fine legal and dandy to commit voter impersonation is a load of nonsense.

The Dail Standing Orders are silent on how that vote is cast in respect of electronic voting. They should be amended to clarify the issue.

Voting impersonation in the Dail is not a criminal offence, even in the case of Dooley who was not even in the Chamber, as the scope of the relevant legislation does not cover votes in the Dail.

James Brown · 18-12-2019 3:49pm

Lads, they either voted or had someone vote for them. Unless an electronic ankle tagging device was in play, proximity isn't an issue afaic. And anyone thinking it is is fooling nobody.

charlie14 · 18-12-2019 4:22pm

blanch152 wrote: »

The Dail Standing Orders are silent on how that vote is cast in respect of electronic voting. They should be amended to clarify the issue.

Voting impersonation in the Dail is not a criminal offence, even in the case of Dooley who was not even in the Chamber, as the scope of the relevant legislation does not cover votes in the Dail.

Complete and utter waffle and nonsense.

Dáil Standing Order 77, in place since 2017, as I have clearly shown you is the one specific Standing Order on casting votes.
It very clearly stipulates that a member can cast a vote, one single vote, for or against a motion.

I have asked you where in the Constitution, or indeed Standing Orders, TD`s are legally allowed to vote by proxy on behalf of others, be they inside the chamber or outside the chamber,where without such proxies TD`s of all parties have been guilty of voting impersonation.
Until you can provide that, then I`m afraid yet again you have been caught out spoofing.

expectationlost · 19-12-2019 12:13am

why was Stephen Donnelly sitting in Lisa chambers seat,https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-01-17/ theres no seeming reason for it, he and everyone else left and returned to the Dail before he spoke on his motion. I asked him we'll see if he answers.

expectationlost · 19-12-2019 10:58pm

every TD who voted for somebody else in the Dail should resign or be fired.

Jinglejangle69 · 19-12-2019 11:14pm

expectationlost wrote: »

why was Stephen Donnelly sitting in Lisa chambers seat,https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-01-17/ theres no seeming reason for it, he and everyone else left and returned to the Daill before he spoke on his motion. I asked him we'll see if he answers.

Silence just like anything here that doesn’t criticize FG.

Forces at work.

charlie14 · 19-12-2019 11:15pm

expectationlost wrote: »

every TD who voted for somebody else in the Dail should resign or be fired.

Never going to happen.

They may throw shapes at each other but in the end of the day they will all heed the words of Benjamin Franklin.
"We must, indeed all hang together, or most assuredly, we will all hang separately"

Plumbthedepths · 19-12-2019 11:56pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Silence just like anything here that doesn’t criticize FG.

Forces at work.

There has been widespread condemnation of the behaviour of all politicians in the votegate scandal, you want to concentrate on just one party when the evidence shows they were bloody well all at it including members of the government party.

charlie14 · 20-12-2019 12:06am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Silence just like anything here that doesn’t criticize FG.

Forces at work.

Have you missed out that FG were at it as well ?
Not only at it but Charlie Flanagan the Minister for Justice and Equality thought it was hunky dory for FG to commit voter impersonation as well.

expectationlost · 21-12-2019 9:23pm

expectationlost wrote: »

why was Stephen Donnelly sitting in Lisa chambers seat,https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-01-17/ theres no seeming reason for it, he and everyone else left and returned to the Dail before he spoke on his motion. I asked him we'll see if he answers.

"the culture associated with Fianna Fail -- of jobs for the boys, bonuses for the boys, lack of accountability and two fingers to the Dail" Stephen Donnelly's column 2014 https://www.independent.ie/opinion/stephen-donnelly-public-money-is-still-being-flushed-down-the-toilet-and-it-stinks-29929432.html

blanch152 · 21-12-2019 9:32pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There has been widespread condemnation of the behaviour of all politicians in the votegate scandal, you want to concentrate on just one party when the evidence shows they were bloody well all at it including members of the government party.

charlie14 wrote: »

Have you missed out that FG were at it as well ?
Not only at it but Charlie Flanagan the Minister for Justice and Equality thought it was hunky dory for FG to commit voter impersonation as well.

Only one TD has been found to be outside the Chamber when someone voted on his behalf, do you accep this?

charlie14 · 22-12-2019 3:44pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Only one TD has been found to be outside the Chamber when someone voted on his behalf, do you accep this?

I really do not know what relevance that has to the criminal offence of voter impersonation.
Unless you are somehow attempting to peddle a line geography is a credible defence that is.
It`s not....... and to save us all time and effort from your looking for wriggle room for your friends in FG, neither is bilocation.

The only means legally to cast a vote other than your own is by receiving official permission to do so by proxy.

I have asked you to show where under the Constitution, or even Dáil Standing Orders 2017, that permission has been granted to TD`s to cast the votes of others, and you have failed to do so
Unless you can, then pressing the voting button of another TD is illegal.

Whether that TD is in the chamber, outside the chamber or in Timbuktu makes not a whit of difference.

expectationlost · 22-12-2019 6:21pm

ok so suppose somebody is on the floor of the dail and the tell their colleague in the bench rows to vote for them cos they won't make it to their seat on time, so thats one thing

then there's somebody asking them to do multiple times in one voting sessions ok?

and then somebody takes a phone call and go to the back of the Dail and asks somebody to vote for them...

and then they do it multiple times, do they look back each time to see if the other TD is still in the chamber or maybe they don't bother and keep voting for them...

and they don't look to see if the other TD is still in the chamber and they start voting for somebody who isn't in the chamber... its slippery slope so it should not be done at all, a TD should vote for themselves only.

blanch152 · 22-12-2019 6:24pm

charlie14 wrote: »

I really do not know what relevance that has to the criminal offence of voter impersonation.
Unless you are somehow attempting to peddle a line geography is a credible defence that is.
It`s not....... and to save us all time and effort from your looking for wriggle room for your friends in FG, neither is bilocation.

The only means legally to cast a vote other than your own is by receiving official permission to do so by proxy.

I have asked you to show where under the Constitution, or even Dáil Standing Orders 2017, that permission has been granted to TD`s to cast the votes of others, and you have failed to do so
Unless you can, then pressing the voting button of another TD is illegal.

Whether that TD is in the chamber, outside the chamber or in Timbuktu makes not a whit of difference.

Nothing that happens in the Dail has any relevance to the criminal offence of voter impersonation, because that law does not apply to Dail votes. You are wrong on that.

I never said the Standing Orders gave permission to allow someone to cast your vote, I said they were silent on it, and did not explicitly forbid it, once you were in the Chamber

charlie14 · 22-12-2019 7:53pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Nothing that happens in the Dail has any relevance to the criminal offence of voter impersonation, because that law does not apply to Dail votes. You are wrong on that.

I never said the Standing Orders gave permission to allow someone to cast your vote, I said they were silent on it, and did not explicitly forbid it, once you were in the Chamber

So you admit that T.D.`s are committing voter impersonation by pressing the voting buttons of others, but you cannot show where in the Constitution or Standing Orders anything that grants them permission to commit voter impersonation.
Just take your word for it.:rolleyes:

Try reading Standing Order 77.
The one Standing Order that actually covers casting votes.

It clearly states, which I have pointed out to you on numerous occasions but you refuse to acknowledge it even exists, that a member is entitled to cast Avote for or against a motion.
It does not state a member can cast multiple votes by pressing the voting button of others.
You do not have to take my word for that. It`s there in black and white.

expectationlost · 24-12-2019 2:15pm

expectationlost wrote: »

why was Stephen Donnelly sitting in Lisa chambers seat,https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-01-17/ theres no seeming reason for it, he and everyone else left and returned to the Dail before he spoke on his motion. I asked him we'll see if he answers.

how happy was Stephen Donnelly to be appointed a "front bench" spokesperson but still be sitting on the back row for nearly 2 years?
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/publications/?q=dail%20seating&date=&term=%2Fie%2Foireachtas%2Fhouse%2Fdail%2F32&fromDate=16%2F12%2F2019&toDate=17%2F12%2F2019 only got at the front when Billy Kelleher departed for EU

Igotadose · 10-02-2020 4:41pm

Dimmy Tooley lost reelectionl. Thank goodness for small favors.

Calhoun · 10-02-2020 4:45pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Dimmy Tooley lost reelectionl. Thank goodness for small favors.

Roll on Senator Dimmy Tooley

Be right back · 10-02-2020 4:50pm

Calhoun wrote: »

Roll on Senator Dimmy Tooley

Or a nice job in the EU parliament.

Dyr · 10-02-2020 4:54pm

Be right back wrote: »

Or a nice job in the EU parliament.

Cue Dimmy arriving in Euroland: "Und vee thought ze brits vere idiots!"

expectationlost · 06-05-2020 3:55pm

Dáil electronic voting review recommends installing extra cameras for €50,000 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/dáil-electronic-voting-review-recommends-installing-extra-cameras-for-50-000-1.4246422 a system where we have to depend on Dail authorities to check the footage?

Muahahaha · 06-05-2020 9:19pm

Its not cameras they need, its finger print recognition

Blueshoe · 06-05-2020 9:22pm

He blocked me on twitter

James Brown · 06-05-2020 9:25pm

I hope they source the cameras better than they do printers. I assume the cameras will fit in the place without too much construction work?

expectationlost · 07-05-2020 8:53pm

The final report on the matter, which will include the recommendations both in the Clerk’s Review and in Professor Farrell’s report, will be a matter of the highest priority for the Committee. A copy of that report will be laid before the Dáil.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20200507-dail-committee-on-procedure-considers-report-from-professor-david-farrell-re-dail-voting-system/ so when will we see this report?