Paying for sex

Feisar

FurtherAway wrote: »

Lots of guys here are really eager to stress again and again that while no woman should ever be forced to do it, many women prostitute themselves willingly. Here's some questions to you: how do you tell the difference? How do you know the woman lying there for your pleasure is doing so because she wants to and not because she is forced to or mentally ill or both? Do you seriously believe she's gonna tell you the truth if it's the latter?

The cognitive dissonance on display here is staggering.

Lying there? If I am footing the bill she'd want to be busting some serious moves and not lying there!

leggo

FurtherAway wrote: »

Lots of guys here are really eager to stress again and again that while no woman should ever be forced to do it, many women prostitute themselves willingly. Here's some questions to you: how do you tell the difference? How do you know the woman lying there for your pleasure is doing so because she wants to and not because she is forced to or mentally ill or both? Do you seriously believe she's gonna tell you the truth if it's the latter?

The cognitive dissonance on display here is staggering.

Spot on, that’s what it is. “One girl in an AMA one time said she enjoyed it so I can imagine all girls feel that way and that makes what I do okay.” Then just attack and namecall anyone who questions this. I’d respect them more if they just owned it and said “I just want my hole, can’t get it any other way and don’t actually care what their backstory is.” But they’ve baked it into their self-esteem that they are, in fact, ‘good people’ so the objective becomes to prove the entire world wrong. The facts aren’t the ‘real’ facts and it’s all a conspiracy by feminazis or some other imaginary group to stop them from being happy.

Feisar

leggo wrote: »

Spot on, that’s what it is. “One girl in an AMA one time said she enjoyed it so I can imagine all girls feel that way and that makes what I do okay.” Then just attack and namecall anyone who questions this. I’d respect them more if they just owned it and said “I just want my hole, can’t get it any other way and don’t actually care what their backstory is.” But they’ve baked it into their self-esteem that they are, in fact, ‘good people’ so the objective becomes to prove the entire world wrong. The facts aren’t the ‘real’ facts and it’s all a conspiracy by feminazis or some other imaginary group to stop them from being happy.

I'm no saint and have some funny ideas on right and wrong however the thoughts of adding a little more misery to some poor soul who may be trafficked/beaten/drug addled/abused is the main reason I wouldn't go to a prostitute.

FurtherAway

FurtherAway wrote: »

Lots of guys here are really eager to stress again and again that while no woman should ever be forced to do it, many women prostitute themselves willingly. Here's some questions to you: how do you tell the difference? How do you know the woman lying there for your pleasure is doing so because she wants to and not because she is forced to or mentally ill or both? Do you seriously believe she's gonna tell you the truth if it's the latter?

The cognitive dissonance on display here is staggering.

Oh right. So because some women might be forced into it or mentally ill, we shouldn't try to legislate to make it legal?

With that rationale, I assume you were against legalising abortion?

khaldrogo

leggo wrote: »

A post using blanket statements explaining why they’re not blanket statements when you say them, when the one thing you claim to hate is...blanket statements. Hilarious. :pac:

Just saying there is blanket statements does not make it so. Please quote the parts you refer to.

FurtherAway

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh right. So because some women might be forced into it or mentally ill, we shouldn't try to legislate to make it legal?

With that rationale, I assume you were against legalising abortion?

Care to show me where exactly I pondered about whether or not prostitution should be legalised?

leggo

Feisar wrote: »

I'm no saint and have some funny ideas on right and wrong however the thoughts of adding a little more misery to some poor soul who may be trafficked/beaten/drug addled/abused is the main reason I wouldn't go to a prostitute.

I went to a strip club when I was younger and got a few lapdances and the whole ‘pay to simulate a sexual experience’ thing never did anything for me. Otherwise I would have probably been in the “I don’t see it so don’t care” camp if I ever did feel the need to use them. You can’t save everyone like and your heart would bleed all day if you tried to respect all the ****tiness and sadness in the world.

But then when I’d see the reality of it trotted out in front of me in my old job, the misery of these girls and how little agency they had even in the underwear they’d wear, how they weren’t even allowed just chat to each other, then they’d go back and probably have to be slobbered on by some 70-year old or Tinder reject who’d only ever get a match if he bought a box of them...nah, it’s an awful existence. But then, how do you stop it because there’s millions of sex-starved lads who aren’t going to see this reality or care even if they do? So legalising it and taking it out of the hands of crooks becomes at least a way of giving some measure of control and regulation back to these people.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

Spot on, that’s what it is. “One girl in an AMA one time said she enjoyed it so I can imagine all girls feel that way and that makes what I do okay.” Then just attack and namecall anyone who questions this. I’d respect them more if they just owned it and said “I just want my hole, can’t get it any other way and don’t actually care what their backstory is.” But they’ve baked it into their self-esteem that they are, in fact, ‘good people’ so the objective becomes to prove the entire world wrong. The facts aren’t the ‘real’ facts and it’s all a conspiracy by feminazis or some other imaginary group to stop them from being happy.

Leggo,

You were the one who came onto the thread and said that anyone who didn't think like you were displaying traits of an incel or had something to hide.

Of course you were going to get pushback with such a silly statement.

Now you are continuing that with alluding that people on here who want prostitution legalised (although bafflingly you yourself say that you want it legal), are only in it because it is the "only way they'll get their hole".

So what makes you, who also want's prostitution legalised, not an incel? Is it because you like dating apps and believe all women (although you already said that you don't)?

You are constantly contradicting yourself and acting superior to people who you hold the same views as.

leggo

khaldrogo wrote: »

Just saying there is blanket statements does not make it so. Please quote the parts you refer to.

You're projecting, I think I broke you. ‘Feminazi’ is a blanket statement for people who share a particular set of views you don’t like. Saying “but I didn’t say every woman who ever existed was one” doesn’t negate that, you can’t just move the goalposts to make yourself right. Go away now, the adults are talking.

FurtherAway

FurtherAway wrote: »

Care to show me where exactly I pondered about whether or not prostitution should be legalised?

What was your point then? You want it legalised although you think it's impossible to know who is being forced to do it?

OR are you saying that people here who state that not all prostitutes are unwilling participants are wrong?

Or are you stating that (like most of the people here) you are saying that it should become legal so we can put rules and guidelines to prevent (as much as possible) any unwilling participants being used?

Because if it's the last, I don't see how you are coming on telling us that there is a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance on display as most people agree.

leggo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Leggo,

You were the one who came onto the thread and said that anyone who didn't think like you were displaying traits of an incel or had something to hide.

Of course you were going to get pushback with such a silly statement.

Now you are continuing that with alluding that people on here who want prostitution legalised (although bafflingly you yourself say that you want it legal), are only in it because it is the "only way they'll get their hole".

So what makes you, who also want's prostitution legalised, not an incel? Is it because you like dating apps and believe all women (although you already said that you don't)?

You are constantly contradicting yourself and acting superior to people who you hold the same views as.

Go back and read that post again. I gave specific criteria for what seems like an incel’s stance, i.e. a lad who can’t get matches on Tinder, thinks prostitution is grand and they all “want it” and is particularly sensitive towards women speaking up about creepy behaviour (likely because it’s something they’ve experienced, see points A and .

It was you who took it personally and volunteered yourself as ticking those boxes. I never specifically pointed to anyone, a slew of lads sure did get upset though...

leggo

leggo wrote: »

You're projecting, I think I broke you. ‘Feminazi’ is a blanket statement for people who share a particular set of views you don’t like. Saying “but I didn’t say every woman who ever existed was one” doesn’t negate that, you can’t just move the goalposts to make yourself right. Go away now, the adults are talking.

I don't think you should sit at the adult table just yet Leggo.

He spoke about all 5th wave feminists, who hate men as a group, specifically because he was talking about 5th wave feminists who hate men. That's not what a blanket statement is.

It was exceptionally plain to see.

Reviews and Books Galore

FurtherAway wrote: »

Lots of guys here are really eager to stress again and again that while no woman should ever be forced to do it, many women prostitute themselves willingly. Here's some questions to you: how do you tell the difference? How do you know the woman lying there for your pleasure is doing so because she wants to and not because she is forced to or mentally ill or both? Do you seriously believe she's gonna tell you the truth if it's the latter?

The cognitive dissonance on display here is staggering.

I do like how people in any discussions aboit sex and women always imagine the woman just lying there.



Also, what's wrong with mentally ill people doing prostitution? Should they be Gaurdai, psychologists, or working in a kitchen?



@Leggo


I do find it odd how often your conflating the view of men who, as you said, 'can't get their hole' with men who go to prostitution. It's just interesting how you are imagining them as lower class, so to speak, when they could just be men so filled with thestoerone that they can afford any woman and multiple women :P

leggo

leggo wrote: »

Go back and read that post again. I gave specific criteria for what seems like an incel’s stance, i.e. a lad who can’t get matches on Tinder, thinks prostitution is grand and they all “want it” and is particularly sensitive towards women speaking up about creepy behaviour (likely because it’s something they’ve experienced, see points A and .

It was you who took it personally and volunteered yourself as ticking those boxes. I never specifically pointed to anyone, a slew of lads sure did get upset though...

Ok, lets see what you actually said leggo...

leggo wrote: »

If you were to take these kind of threads and build a profile of the typical boards user based off them, it’d look like:

- Man who hates #MeToo or any kind of women speaking up
- Thinks dating apps are BS
- Thinks prostitution gets a bad wrap

Oof. When did boards become a haven for the incels?

No, I read it right.

I hate the #metoo movement
I think dating apps are BS
I do think prostitution should be legalised (not sure if that counts as a bad rap)

You inferred that people that held those positions were incels

Then you get all offended / defensive when people call out your position as silly.

Even though you agree to prostitution being legal and agree with Bill Burr that #metoo was at best "problematic", you bask in an undeserved air of superiority with absolutely no basis in reality.

Reviews and Books Galore

I think dating apps are bull****. Most of a person's attraction is based on voice, mannerisms, and facial expressions.

Reviews and Books Galore

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I think dating apps are bull****. Most of a person's attraction is based on voice, mannerisms, and facial expressions.

You are 1/3rd of the way to being an incel then :p

FurtherAway

Deleted User wrote: »

What was your point then? You want it legalised although you think it's impossible to know who is being forced to do it?

OR are you saying that people here who state that not all prostitutes are unwilling participants are wrong?

Or are you stating that (like most of the people here) you are saying that it should become legal so we can put rules and guidelines to prevent (as much as possible) any unwilling participants being used?

Because if it's the last, I don't see how you are coming on telling us that there is a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance on display as most people agree.

My point is that any man who goes to a prostitute, whether legally or illegally, essentially puts his pleasure above the well-being of a woman as he has no way of knowing she does this because she really wants to. When in doubt - and there is always doubt unless people master the art of mind-reading - he should assume she doesn't - but that's not happening. Many men don't like hearing this simple little piece of truth because of cognitive dissonance. If every man who even just toyed with the idea of going to a prostitute actually owned up and - shock, horror! - wanted to be a better human being, there would be no need for the law to ever look at prostitution one way or another.

khaldrogo

leggo wrote: »

You're projecting, I think I broke you. ‘Feminazi’ is a blanket statement for people who share a particular set of views you don’t like. Saying “but I didn’t say every woman who ever existed was one” doesn’t negate that, you can’t just move the goalposts to make yourself right. Go away now, the adults are talking.

I can't believe I have to explain this again....

'Feminazis' is a term not a statement. The same as 'Creationists' is a term for example. If I say that creationist's believe the world was created by God that is not a blanket statement. It is a fact. The same as the feminazis. The TERM feminazis was given to the 5th wave feminists who believe all men are trash. This means literally that; you are considered ba feminazis if you believe all men are trash and would see harm come to all men. The same as, you would be considered a creationist if you believe that God created the universe. Using the term 'feminazis' in a sentence does not make it a blanket statement. I would have to say, 'all women who hate men are feminazis' to make it a blanket statement.

"Go away, the adults are talking" lol!!! Did I hit a nerve??

Lol....this is a fun thread!

Reviews and Books Galore

FurtherAway wrote: »

My point is that any man who goes to a prostitute, whether legally or illegally, essentially puts his pleasure above the well-being of a woman as he has no way of knowing she does this because she really wants to. When in doubt - and there is always doubt unless people master the art of mind-reading - he should assume she doesn't - but that's not happening. Many men don't like hearing this simple little piece of truth because of cognitive dissonance. If every man who even just toyed with the idea of going to a prostitute actually owned up and - shock, horror! - wanted to be a better human being, there would be no need for the law to ever look at prostitution one way or another.

I don't think I've ever heard a beginners level term in psychology used in such a dehumanizing fashion.



Sure, the same could be said for prostitutes using men's hunger for sex and intamacy for material gain. Both arguments are quite absurd.

FurtherAway

FurtherAway wrote: »

My point is that any man who goes to a prostitute, whether legally or illegally, essentially puts his pleasure above the well-being of a woman as he has no way of knowing she does this because she really wants to. When in doubt - and there is always doubt unless people master the art of mind-reading - he should assume she doesn't - but that's not happening. Many men don't like hearing this simple little piece of truth because of cognitive dissonance. If every man who even just toyed with the idea of going to a prostitute actually owned up and - shock, horror! - wanted to be a better human being, there would be no need for the law to ever look at prostitution one way or another.

I see.

So you won't give any opinion on whether prostitution should be legal or not, but it is completely up to men to not visit them rendering it null and void. Women are not responsible for prostitution in any way?

It is only nasty horrible predatory men who visit prostitutes?

I think, judging by your post, you may have some issues yourself that need to be dealt with regarding how you see men or indeed women.

FurtherAway

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I don't think I've ever heard a beginners level term in psychology used in such a dehumanizing fashion.



Sure, the same could be said for prostitutes using men's hunger for sex and intamacy for material gain. Both arguments are quite absurd.

Way to go to prove my point! Cognitive dissonance alive and well.

FurtherAway

Credit_Spread wrote: »

Do you have any way of knowing that the staff in a restaurant are working there because they really want to? If not are you putting your pleasure above there well-being?

I have yet to hear of people having their passports taken from them and being forced to waiter or else have the living daylights beaten out of them, but you go on pretending this comparison actually makes sense.

Ironicname

FurtherAway wrote:

I have yet to hear of people having their passports taken from them and being forced to waiter or else have the living daylights beaten out of them, but you go on pretending this comparison actually makes sense.

Which is why, people are calling for legalisation.

Reviews and Books Galore

FurtherAway wrote: »

Way to go to prove my point! Cognitive dissonance alive and well.

I am giving my opinion, I am giving my basis for the opinion, and I am seeing the humanity of both parties, and you are just waving it away as cognitive dissonance?



Goodness gracious

FurtherAway

FurtherAway wrote: »

My point is that any man who goes to a prostitute, whether legally or illegally, essentially puts his pleasure above the well-being of a woman as he has no way of knowing she does this because she really wants to. When in doubt - and there is always doubt unless people master the art of mind-reading - he should assume she doesn't - but that's not happening. Many men don't like hearing this simple little piece of truth because of cognitive dissonance. If every man who even just toyed with the idea of going to a prostitute actually owned up and - shock, horror! - wanted to be a better human being, there would be no need for the law to ever look at prostitution one way or another.

Ok,

I'll ask you one simple question:

Should a woman have a right to choose to have sex in return for financial gain?

victor8600

Deleted User wrote: »

Should a woman have a right to choose to have sex in return for financial gain?

If she (or he) is fully informed and taught her/his rights, the boundaries and ideally also techniques for enhancing the customer's sex experience, is not forced into the job, and pays taxes, then yes.

Otherwise, no, she/he in one way or another engages in a corruption, either by degrading herself, or by avoiding fair taxes, or by facilitating crime.

victor8600

victor8600 wrote: »

If she (or he) is fully informed and taught her/his rights, the boundaries and ideally also techniques for enhancing the customer's sex experience, is not forced into the job, and pays taxes, then yes.

Otherwise, no, she/he in one way or another engages in a corruption, either by degrading herself, or by avoiding fair taxes, or by facilitating crime.

I agree with most of that. Could you expand on the "degrading herself" part though?

Demonique

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

You can always use your hand or a sex toy or get a blow up doll

victor8600

Ironicname wrote: »

Is that a serious question? Do you really think a fleshlight is comparable to having actual sex?

Since I see no answer to my actual question, I'll try to answer for you. If a John just wants a prostitute to be a hole to stick his body extremity into, then in his eyes there is little difference between a fleshlight and the person he is using to get his satisfaction. But it is not actually just about the sexual satisfaction, is it? It is about control -- I give you money, I own you, I am not just a sad loser who cannot get sex for free.

I am open for a correction. Do convince me that having sex with a prostitute is a joyous occasion for all involved.

victor8600

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with most of that. Could you expand on the "degrading herself" part though?

It's not having control over what she/he would be forced to do because they are in a compromised position.

victor8600

victor8600 wrote: »

Since I see no answer to my actual question, I'll try to answer for you. If a John just wants a prostitute to be a hole to stick his body extremity into, then in his eyes there is little difference between a fleshlight and the person he is using to get his satisfaction. But it is not actually just about the sexual satisfaction, is it? It is about control -- I give you money, I own you, I am not just a sad loser who cannot get sex for free.

I am open for a correction. Do convince me that having sex with a prostitute is a joyous occasion for all involved.

You are doing sex wrong then.

There is a large difference between the satisfaction of having intercourse with a person and bringing yourself to orgasm with an inanimate object.

It certainly is not about control. If you think it is, you have a very strange relationship with sex.

victor8600

victor8600 wrote: »

I am open for a correction. Do convince me that having sex with a prostitute is a joyous occasion for all involved.

Sex is not always equally joyous for both parties. Sometimes one enjoys it a lot more. Even in a loving relationship.

But in this scenario, the man gets to have sex with a person and the prostitute gets paid for her services.

leggo

Credit_Spread wrote: »

If one were to say all X are Y. That is a blanket statement.

“All women who share particular viewpoints are feminazis.” The usage of the term alone is an implication of this, that’s why the word exists!

It’s literally the exact same as the comparison people are giving out to me for, except one is about men, one is about women. But when I do it about desperate men who need to pay for sex it’s a ‘blanket statement’ and therefore bad. Do it about women and it’s a ‘term’, and therefore good. You lads are hilarious.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

“All women who share particular viewpoints are feminazis.” The usage of the term alone is an implication of this, that’s why the word exists!

It’s literally the exact same as the comparison people are giving out to me for, except one is about men, one is about women. But when I do it about desperate men who need to pay for sex it’s a ‘blanket statement’ and therefore bad. Do it about women and it’s a ‘term’, and therefore good. You lads are hilarious.

Hahaha.... you are the gift that keeps giving. You are even trying to turn your inability to grasp the concept of a blanket statement into us being misogynists?

leggo

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I do find it odd how often your conflating the view of men who, as you said, 'can't get their hole' with men who go to prostitution. It's just interesting how you are imagining them as lower class, so to speak, when they could just be men so filled with thestoerone that they can afford any woman and multiple women :P

You are adorable. So much testosterone in you you even spell it with an extra h.

I never argued that ‘all’ men who go to prostitutes are this way. I’m arguing that there’s a particular profile of one type of man shining through in all of these discussions. I’m sure there are couples who use a hooker for a threesome, or lads who have weird kinks their wives won’t do with them, or wives who won’t do anything with them. But yeah, just because they exist doesn’t mean there’s not also a lot of these incel-types. I’m sure if you go back to that legendary AMA people are happy to cite you’ll see herself talk about just that.

But not you. You’ve all the thestosterone, as we’ve established.

victor8600

Deleted User wrote: »

You are doing sex wrong then.

I have never had a need to go to a prostitute, probably because of my good looks and a general sex appeal. I had some troubling times where I had to take things extra slow due to a certain part of my anatomy being very wide and a bit long. But let's not turn this discussion into a measuring contest.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you think it is [about control], you have a very strange relationship with sex.

You are actually right on both counts. I do and I have.

leggo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hahaha.... you are the gift that keeps giving. You are even trying to turn your inability to grasp the concept of a blanket statement into us being misogynists?

What’s this ‘us’? For about the 5th time in this thread I’ll say: I wasn’t talking to you. Stop latching onto me like every point I’m making is specifically addressing you.

If I say “I think someone like this is creepy” and you say “Hey...I’m not creepy!” That’s you calling yourself creepy, not me. I don’t know you.

victor8600

victor8600 wrote: »

I have never had a need to go to a prostitute, probably because of my good looks and a general sex appeal. I had some troubling times where I had to take things extra slow due to a certain part of my anatomy being very wide and a bit long. But let's not turn this discussion into a measuring contest.



You are actually right on both counts. I do and I have.

hahaha.

Good man Victor.

At least you admit you have a strange relationship with sex which is probably why you have the views you have.

I'll leave you be with your apparently large appendage (TMI) and weird relationship with sex which you equate it with control.

leggo

Credit_Spread wrote: »

Is there the same objections to male prostitutes or women visiting female prostitutes?

A friend of a friend is a male prostitute. He doesn’t get calls from women.

victor8600

Credit_Spread wrote: »

On what basis are you concluding that a man has sex with a prostitute for control?

I am not going to run a Psychology 101 class here, you can read about it yourself.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

If I say “I think someone like this is creepy” and you say “Hey...I’m not creepy!” That’s you calling yourself creepy, not me. I don’t know you.

I think you will find me saying "Hey I'm not creepy" is the exact opposite of me calling myself creepy.

You weren't talking to me but you were making very silly points which I felt compelled to point out.

marieholmfan

I wonder if men who go to prostitutes actually enjoy the pain and hurt they cause to their victims.

marieholmfan

marieholmfan wrote: »

I wonder if men who go to prostitutes actually enjoy the pain and hurt they cause to their victims.

That is a disgusting post.

Not all prostitutes are victims. Not all men cause them pain or hurt.

You have a toxic view on men (and women).

victor8600

Credit_Spread wrote: »

Not sure why you are referencing your undersized anatomy, it's not really relevant and not a measuring contest. Let's stick to the topic at hand.

Are you a moderator here? On the topic of giving an unsolicited advice -- don't read about the psychology of sex. I am too smart for my own good, so I cannot help it, but you can still save yourself from having a complicated view of the world.

Credit_Spread wrote: »

Good don't run a class, bottom line is this, people are different and often have varying motivations and mindsets so your comment is what some would call a blanket generalisation.

Well of course, this is general thread so it calls for some generalisation. We are not discussing a particular prostitute here.

khaldrogo

leggo wrote: »

You are adorable. So much testosterone in you you even spell it with an extra h..........

Yes, because we all know how masculine an extra h is in a word!!!!!!!


Clutching at straws now.......maybe have a little nap and maybe a cookie and we'll talk later. K?

khaldrogo

marieholmfan wrote: »

I wonder if men who go to prostitutes actually enjoy the pain and hurt they cause to their victims.

You really wonder that? Really? Or is it just for effect in this thread? Be honest.....

khaldrogo

khaldrogo wrote: »

You really wonder that? Really? Or is it just for effect in this thread? Be honest.....

I think we all know the answer to that.

Reviews and Books Galore

leggo wrote: »

You are adorable. So much testosterone in you you even spell it with an extra h.

I never argued that ‘all’ men who go to prostitutes are this way. I’m arguing that there’s a particular profile of one type of man shining through in all of these discussions. I’m sure there are couples who use a hooker for a threesome, or lads who have weird kinks their wives won’t do with them, or wives who won’t do anything with them. But yeah, just because they exist doesn’t mean there’s not also a lot of these incel-types. I’m sure if you go back to that legendary AMA people are happy to cite you’ll see herself talk about just that.

But not you. You’ve all the thestosterone, as we’ve established.

Did I touch a nerve? :P

Hotblack Desiato

Madalynn Hundreds Traveller wrote: »

The Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the US show that 4,761 men died on the job in 2017

Somewhat unfortunate phrasing there :pac:

Loafing Oaf

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Its a really dark view of women that I have heard repeated a few times here that men always end up paying for sex one way or another. Do people think that their partners just have sex with them for money? How are you paying for it exactly? Horrible.