Paying for sex

khaldrogo

I'm going to finish with this and then unfollow as I have stuff to do.....


I have never used a prostitute. I don't think I ever would use one. I certainly would not use one I knew was being trafficked. I do, however, believe that if a woman WANTS to sell her body for money she should be able to.

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victor8600 wrote: »

I have never had a need to go to a prostitute, probably because of my good looks and a general sex appeal. I had some troubling times where I had to take things extra slow due to a certain part of my anatomy being very wide and a bit long. But let's not turn this discussion into a measuring contest.

That's a strange reply tbf

leggo

I think you guys have done a solid job proving you’re not creepy, angry lads who hate women anyway fwiw. Those 4-5 hours spent badgering anyone who thought going to prostitutes was a bit odd really showed us all.

riclad

I Think escorts get paid more than most people working in retail,
they can set their own hour,s .
They provide a service, i presume most of their customers are single men, tourist,s , business men .
Its a business , the decide to do a job and earn money .
they may think its better than working in tesco or a call centre .
i think its not as tough as working as a junior doctor or a nurse .
i don,t see them as victims .
no more than a woman who works at tesco is a victim.

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leggo wrote: »

I think you guys have done a solid job proving you’re not creepy, angry lads who hate women anyway fwiw. Those 4-5 hours spent badgering anyone who thought going to prostitutes was a bit odd really showed us all.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

I think you guys have done a solid job proving you’re not creepy, angry lads who hate women anyway fwiw. Those 4-5 hours spent badgering anyone who thought going to prostitutes was a bit odd really showed us all.

Get a grip. Imagine spending the last couple of hours acting holier than thou, calling people incels and then framing it as your argument was just "prostitution is a little bit odd".

And you had the cheek to accuse others of moving the goalpost?

You agree with legalising prostitution anyway!!! You are in agreement with the people you are admonishing.

You couldn't make it up.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

I think you guys have done a solid job proving you’re not creepy, angry lads who hate women anyway fwiw.

Where did anyone even allude to the fact that they hated women? In fact, not seeing women as perpetual victims and as equals is arguably a fairer and less condescending outlook on the opposite sex.

But no... sure, you keep fighting the good fight and show us how much you care about women. They should be grateful they have heroes like you to protect them.

Ted_YNWA

Mod

Can everyone try and tone down the aggressive levels. One card has been handed out. More will follow if you continue.

Thanks

partyguinness

I have frequented plenty of escorts in the past. It was not the sex or the lack of the ability to get it. In fact I had sex on tap anyway.

It was the thrill of it and once I was in the door I actually had no interest- the sex itself is generally rubbish. Just a thrill seek.

In fact I would be quite happy just to enter the room have a quick chat, pay the money a feck off without actually doing the deed. Never done that as it may be deemed insulting so I just went through the motions.

Far happier in recent years to have a massage and happy ending. Many a time spent a wondering through a city hungover with a few hours to kill- off to Chinatown. But too tight to pay the money now.

Top Tip- Lying on your back bollock naked with wood is not the best negotiating position.

mr_fegelien

Can I ask any ladies here, how would you feel if one of your male friends paid you €250 for a ONS? Is it offensive to suggest it?

Elmer Blooker

Feisar wrote: »

I think anyone involved in porn is missing something mentally.

Prostitution and porn is the same thing, I don't buy this 'porn star' stuff, you have to have even limited talent to be a 'star'.

I've always believed that women involved in prostitution have narcissistic personality disorders one of the symptoms is a total lack of empathy for others.
I don't see prostitution as a career choice, as most it seems, do these days.

Narcissistic personality disorder — one of several types of personality disorders — is a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration, troubled relationships, and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

The above describes the women involved in pornography quite accurately in my opinion.

Loafing Oaf

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Can I ask any ladies here, how would you feel if one of your male friends paid you €250 for a ONS? Is it offensive to suggest it?

Well you're telling her she's only worth 0.00025% of a Demi Moore...

Leg End Reject

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Can I ask any ladies here, how would you feel if one of your male friends paid you €250 for a ONS? Is it offensive to suggest it?

If you can't get laid for free I'd imagine the vast majority would be offended. It's a pity ride with pocket money thrown in to act like a prostitute.

partyguinness

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Prostitution and porn is the same thing, I don't buy this 'porn star' stuff, you have to have even limited talent to be a 'star'.

There is a tendency to label anyone in the porn industry as a 'star'.

jaxxx

Can I remind everyone that we're talking about people here, no different than you or I. The way some of you are talking, you're painting sex workers, as well as pornstars for that matter, as 2nd if not 3rd class citizens and quite frankly it's disgusting.

Hego Damask

Sometimes I get a serious dose of "the horn" and need to visit a brazzer!!!
haven't in 2+ years though, but it's great craic altogether.

kiki_the_third

The only question you need to ask yourself to find out how you really feel is: How would you feel if it was a woman you care about? Your sister, your niece, your daughter, your best friend.

Would you still think 'it's just a business transaction' then?

dotsman

kiki_the_third wrote: »

The only question you need to ask yourself to find out how you really feel is: How would you feel if it was a woman you care about? Your sister, your niece, your daughter, your best friend.

Would you still think 'it's just a business transaction' then?

Of course. How would that change anything?

marieholmfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That is a disgusting post.

Not all prostitutes are victims. Not all men cause them pain or hurt.

You have a toxic view on men (and women).

All prostitutes are victims.

whisky_galore

kiki_the_third wrote: »

The only question you need to ask yourself to find out how you really feel is: How would you feel if it was a woman you care about? Your sister, your niece, your daughter, your best friend.

Would you still think 'it's just a business transaction' then?

Ehm peoples' sisters, nieces, daughters etc are already in it. Do you think they fell down in a shower of rain?

What's your solution? Asked this before and was met with predictable stony silence.

jaxxx

marieholmfan wrote: »

All prostitutes are victims.

Ok. where's your source? What proof do you have to this claim? Do you know anyone that's been a victim of prostitution? Why do you know better than some sex workers who are campaigning for better laws to protect them, such as Kate McGrew I mentioned previously? Or are you just lapping up what you hear in the media and then spewing it off as gospel truth?

Day Lewin

kiki_the_third wrote: »

The only question you need to ask yourself to find out how you really feel is: How would you feel if it was a woman you care about? Your sister, your niece, your daughter, your best friend.

Would you still think 'it's just a business transaction' then?

I have personal friends who have done it for a living. They observe sensible safety precautions. Good money to be made. There's always a market!

So, what exactly is your objection?

kiki_the_third

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ehm peoples' sisters, nieces, daughters etc are already in it. Do you think they fell down in a shower of rain?

My question wasn't how you feel about people's sisters, daughters and nieces, it was how you would feel if it was yours? Would you feel comfortable with your neighbours knowing? Would you be happy for her? Would you worry about her

whisky_galore wrote: »

What's your solution? Asked this before and was met with predictable stony silence.

My solution is full legalisation with strong protections for sex workers and mandatory STD tests every month, as well as the full force of the law being brought down on sex traffickers. I believe we should try and strike a balance between legal and 'normalised'. I don't think young men thinking paying women for sex should be considered ideal.

kiki_the_third

Day Lewin wrote: »

I have personal friends who have done it for a living. They observe sensible safety precautions. Good money to be made. There's always a market!

So, what exactly is your objection?

I haven't actually stated an objection.

corner of hells

kiki_the_third wrote: »

The only question you need to ask yourself to find out how you really feel is: How would you feel if it was a woman you care about? Your sister, your niece, your daughter, your best friend.

Would you still think 'it's just a business transaction' then?

I know this is a bit off on a tangent, but I work in social care in a low threshold environment and occasionally case manage women that are "street workers ".

With those that are particularly vulnerable I'll have a "safe plan" in place.
I've often sat down with them before they've gone out asking these questions,
Where will you be working? Will you be with another girl , what time will you be back , will you ring in if you're going to be late ?
And these last two questions, if you get into a car , place your hand on the dashboard for finger prints and make sure theres nobody in the back seat.

Tell me how

marieholmfan wrote: »

All prostitutes are victims.

How do you know?

Did you read the AMA with an escort that was held on this site?

She didn't think she was a victim.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057719737

jaxxx

corner of hells wrote: »

I know this is a bit off on a tangent, but I work in social care in a low threshold environment and occasionally case manage women that are "street workers ".

With those that are particularly vulnerable I'll have a "safe plan" in place.
I've often sat down with them before they've gone out asking these questions,
Where will you be working? Will you be with another girl , what time will you be back , will you ring in if you're going to be late ?
And these last two questions, if you get into a car , place your hand on the dashboard for finger prints and make sure theres nobody in the back seat.

You make a good point there actually regarding working alone. Even though the selling of sex is actually legal, if sex workers are working out of the same place then it constitutes a brothel in the eyes of the law, and they'll be arrested and fined. I remember a case going back only some months back where two sex workers, who were fully independent and not coerced/forced, were arrested, fined and jailed several months for this, one of whom was pregnant if I recall correctly. Where's the common sense here? What happened to that old safeguard of 'safety in numbers'?

anewme

corner of hells wrote: »

I know this is a bit off on a tangent, but I work in social care in a low threshold environment and occasionally case manage women that are "street workers ".

With those that are particularly vulnerable I'll have a "safe plan" in place.
I've often sat down with them before they've gone out asking these questions,
Where will you be working? Will you be with another girl , what time will you be back , will you ring in if you're going to be late ?
And these last two questions, if you get into a car , place your hand on the dashboard for finger prints and make sure theres nobody in the back seat.

Very sad that vulnerable people do this to survive.

Imagine the mental health of people working in these conditions.

dotsman

marieholmfan wrote: »

All prostitutes are victims.

That is an incredibly demeaning thing to say. I'm so glad that the world has moved on from the launderettes. It's a pity your attitudes haven't.

BorneTobyWilde

marieholmfan wrote: »

All prostitutes are victims.

Possibly victims of their own decisions down the line, but not at the time. Porn stars love their work it as it's happening for the few years they're in the business, and then down the line leave the industry in a tattered mess mentally.But they made their own choices, although influenced by the money.


Cam girls are more clever, I think they have a safer more controlled environment, and have no one influencing them, at least the independent ones.

You never heard of camgirls ? You should go browse Chaturbate and view someone of the cam girls there, talk to them, see how they work.

whisky_galore

kiki_the_third wrote: »

My question wasn't how you feel about people's sisters, daughters and nieces, it was how you would feel if it was yours? Would you feel comfortable with your neighbours knowing? Would you be happy for her? Would you worry about her



My solution is full legalisation with strong protections for sex workers and mandatory STD tests every month, as well as the full force of the law being brought down on sex traffickers. I believe we should try and strike a balance between legal and 'normalised'. I don't think young men thinking paying women for sex should be considered ideal.

At the end of the day, they are grown adults and they make their own choices. There's people living on the streets, or problems with staying out of trouble or hitting the drink etc who I'm sure have family at home, there's a limit to what can be done.

Think it's telling that the best publicised agency for helping sex workers here has direct lineage from Magdalene Laundries and still traces of Church notions here of what is 'decent' and what is not.

Oh bless whatever will the neighbours think?

kiki_the_third

whisky_galore wrote: »

At the end of the day, they are grown adults and they make their own choices. There's people living on the streets, or problems with staying out of trouble or hitting the drink etc who I'm sure have family at home, there's a limit to what can be done.

Think it's telling that the best publicised agency for helping sex workers here has direct lineage from Magdalene Laundries and still traces of Church notions here of what is 'decent' and what is not.

Oh bless whatever will the neighbours think?

From your comparisons with homeless people and addicts, I assume you don't consider prostitution an ideal career for someone you care about then.

And of course it doesn't really matter what the neighbours think - I asked the question to get people thinking about whether this is something they would be proud of if it was their daughter. I imagine most people, no matter what their socioeconomic background, would want better than that for their daughters.

Wayne Jarvis

I must say I am surprised that a thread on After Hours about the morality of prostitution has such wildly opposing views on it.

anewme

Supervillain wrote: »

I interesting quote form the resident escort:


"Haha yes I have! I have met quiet a few young attractive guys! Guys who I would 100% be interested in in a "normal" situation"

Interesting first post.

FurtherAway

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok,

I'll ask you one simple question:

Should a woman have a right to choose to have sex in return for financial gain?

A woman should of course have the right to choose. The problem is, that many do not have any such choice - they are forced to do it. Before you go off telling us all again that legislation would solve that, may I point you to Germany where prostitution is, in fact, legal, yet the numbers of trafficked women remains painfully high. In fact, the problem has gotten worse.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533-3.html

Which brings me right back to my original questions: How do you know the woman lying there for your pleasure is doing so because she wants to and not because she is forced to or mentally ill or both? And do you seriously believe she's gonna tell you the truth if it's the latter? Now that I've answered your question, I'm sure you won't mind answering mine.

leggo

I actually think that that AMA did more harm than good. I re-read some of it off the back of this thread and she even spoke about trafficking and how awful it was, but all that seems to have been taken from it is “One girl said she was okay with her life as a prostitute, therefore all of them are. I am woke now and believe in equality.”

I literally dealt with prostitutes on a near-daily basis working in an adult store for a few years. They’d open up and chat away to the girls while there, there was ALWAYS a backstory and a qualifier almost for why they did what they did. Not once did I hear “I do this because I enjoy it.” That’s not to say it doesn’t exist, but it wasn’t reflected in my experience. The ones who had pimps/security got pocket money rather than wages and it represented a pittance of what they brought in. There were a lot of trans girls who did it because they couldn’t get hired anywhere else and had little luck dating, the poor things were often wild and you could spot their mental health issues a mile off. There were other girls who’d get shushed by their big Eastern European pimps if they tried to talk (and they’d listen, they were afraid), get paraded around and told what underwear to try on and get prodded like cattle. What you lads think is the reality is not the reality. And I haven’t even brought human trafficking into it because as if they were allowed talk about that.

corner of hells

whisky_galore wrote: »

At the end of the day, they are grown adults and they make their own choices. There's people living on the streets, or problems with staying out of trouble or hitting the drink etc who I'm sure have family at home, there's a limit to what can be done.

Think it's telling that the best publicised agency for helping sex workers here has direct lineage from Magdalene Laundries and still traces of Church notions here of what is 'decent' and what is not.

Oh bless whatever will the neighbours think?

Theres actually quite a few groups or individuals working within low threshold agencies working under an umbrella term of working with marginalised women. Theres quite a few outreach groups now offering support.

Ruhamas infamy makes it well known.

kiki_the_third

The only women I know personally who were sex workers were going through addiction issues at the time and sold their bodies to pay for the next hit.

I can't imagine how it's even enjoyable to know a skeletal heroin-addicted woman is allowing you to penetrate her just so she can get a fix.

BorneTobyWilde

All about the money. She's probably doing to have sex with someone that night anyway, so why not take the 2k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25l8bDPPg-o

jaxxx

kiki_the_third wrote: »

The only women I know personally who were sex workers were going through addiction issues at the time and sold their bodies to pay for the next hit.

I can't imagine how it's even enjoyable to know a skeletal heroin-addicted woman is allowing you to penetrate her just so she can get a fix.

So are you then inferring then that all other sex workers must follow the same suit of being addicted to drugs, simply because you know someone who did? What utter rubbish.

kiki_the_third

jaxxx wrote: »

So are you then inferring then that all other sex workers must follow the same suit of being addicted to drugs, simply because you know someone who did? What utter rubbish.

No, I didn't say that at all. I specifically said it in relation to women I have known personally. I know recovering addicts who sold their bodies to pay for drugs. I have never met a middle class woman who went into prostitution because she enjoyed the flexible hours.

I am not suggesting my experience represents all experiences.

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I imagine they get into drugs due to too much money and too much free time imo.

Reviews and Books Galore

anewme wrote: »

Very sad that vulnerable people do this to survive.

Imagine the mental health of people working in these conditions.

Have you evere cared about men in meat factories, sewrage or other highly physical jobs where they face constant stress of injuries?

kiki_the_third

If you choose to pay for sex, be honest with yourself about it.

There is a good chance that the person whose body you are paying for is:

- a victim of addiction
- a victim of dire poverty
- a victim of sex trafficking

No, not 100% of them. But most of you are using cognitive dissonance to avoid thinking about how the women you pay for sex came to be in the position they are in. If you were honest with yourself, it's not what you would want for anyone you love.

Wayne Jarvis

leggo wrote: »

I literally dealt with prostitutes on a near-daily basis working in an adult store for a few years. They’d open up and chat away to the girls while there

I assume by adult store you mean where they sell dildos, butt plugs and the like? Serious question but why would prostitutes be in there every day?

kiki_the_third

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Have you evere cared about men in meat factories, sewrage or other highly physical jobs where they face constant stress of injuries?

Yes, i'm capable of having compassion for people in all kinds of difficult circumstances.

Weird tangent tbh.

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kiki_the_third wrote: »

Yes, i'm capable of having compassion for people in all kinds of difficult circumstances.

Weird tangent tbh.

Why is it weird? I imagine more human trafficking is happening in regards to the dirty minimum wage jobs in Europe than the prostitution imo.

kiki_the_third

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Why is it weird? I imagine more human trafficking is happening in regards to the dirty minimum wage jobs in Europe than the prostitution imo.

I don't think that's true at all. You did indeed imagine it.

kiki_the_third

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Why is it weird? I imagine more human trafficking is happening in regards to the dirty minimum wage jobs in Europe than the prostitution imo.

Also, and it's hard to believe that this even has to be said - all human trafficking is bad. There is no level of human trafficking that I'm okay with.

Being trafficked into the sex industry is arguably one of the worst forms of it, but none of them are acceptable.

If your argument is "I'm okay with women being forced into prostitution because sometimes men are forced to do unpleasant jobs", I suggest you take a long, hard look at yourself.

kiki_the_third

Canelo Kovalev wrote: »

Do you assume that people who believe prostitution should be legal pay for sex?

No, because I believe prostitution should be legal and I do not pay for sex. I consider it the 'least-worst' option.