Paying for sex

Feisar

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I believe, if I’m not mistaken, it’s an old Eastern European “act” involving household items, such as scoops, used to look into female “parts”.

Ah, see a vid one time but it was a speculum being used.

Loafing Oaf

Feisar wrote: »

What’s scooping??!

like felching only done with the hand

possibly...

The_Brood

dvdman1 wrote: »

My point is the slow decline of any sort of morals as a society at whole...maybe in the future, a career guidance might suggest that!... and under Irelands slow declining path they may very well get away with encouraging this.

In this "personal choice decides everything" society, sure we'll have Drs suggesting Euthanasia of the old parents who cant talk, get your inheritance quicker yeee.

So many choices isn't life wonderful were all so grown up and adult like.

Yep. It is the slow abandonment of not just morals but civilization itself really. The mockery and disdain for any kind of self-control and pursuit of matters non-material. It is a slow degradation back to the caveman era, where only thing that matters is your physical needs.

Reviews and Books Galore

@girl on fire


Yeah, the first part is a very good point in regards to male and female sex. I don't want to be too harsh, but women as passive partners (on an emotional and physical level) can be a little bit of a problem in healthy sex relationships.



The second bold is also something that I agree with. It can be a safe space to explore fantasies and experience intimacy and 'explore' a person. Perhaps somebody with certain issues could 'take back their power' so to speak.



I wouldn't go to one though. I like being desired/devoured and, perhaps, having the sexual power so to speak

Montage of Feck

dvdman1 wrote: »

Its you thats projecting your mortality, last time i checked prostitution is illegal here. Your train of though only encourages more of this....of the countries that have legalised it they have seen an increase...prostitution doesnt offer anything positive to irish society

It already here and has been for quite some time.

Hotblack Desiato

The_Brood wrote: »

Yep. It is the slow abandonment of not just morals but civilization itself really. The mockery and disdain for any kind of self-control and pursuit of matters non-material. It is a slow degradation back to the caveman era, where only thing that matters is your physical needs.

lozenges

I find the idea of prostitution distasteful, but that does not mean it should be banned. People should have the right to do as they want with their bodies (including euthanasia, btw).
The main issue with it as present, as another poster has pointed out, is that there is no way to determine currently whether a prostitute someone visits falls into the category of 'happy hooker' (fine), desperate eg drug issues (exploitative but not rape) or trafficked (rape). And the prostitute/sex worker is certainly not going to tell you.

Montage of Feck

Moral decline? What utter claptrap! We are after coming from a place where a veneer of false morality and religiousity hid numerous disgusting outrages, where those deemed to be "immoral" had no rights while the hypocrites in positions of power could do as they like.

dotsman

lozenges wrote: »

I find the idea of prostitution distasteful, but that does not mean it should be banned. People should have the right to do as they want with their bodies (including euthanasia, btw).
The main issue with it as present, as another poster has pointed out, is that there is no way to determine currently whether a prostitute someone visits falls into the category of 'happy hooker' (fine), desperate eg drug issues (exploitative but not rape) or trafficked (rape). And the prostitute/sex worker is certainly not going to tell you.

Hence, you make it legal and regulate it.

SoupMonster

lozenges wrote: »

I find the idea of prostitution distasteful, but that does not mean it should be banned. People should have the right to do as they want with their bodies (including euthanasia, btw).
The main issue with it as present, as another poster has pointed out, is that there is no way to determine currently whether a prostitute someone visits falls into the category of 'happy hooker' (fine), desperate eg drug issues (exploitative but not rape) or trafficked (rape). And the prostitute/sex worker is certainly not going to tell you.

Not always true. I met a Nigerian woman in a bar in Dubai who told me she was trafficked, even pointed out her pimp (another woman).

riclad

Every country has escorts, sex worker,s ,
see prohibition in america against selling Alcohol in the 30,s .
making it illegal drives it underground and gives more money to crinimal
gangs.
the use of drugs, and excess drinking cause,s more suffering to society
than a few adults who wish to pay for sex.
We don,t need to re invent the wheel,
in holland escorts are registered ,they pay tax, brothel,s are legal.
I don,t think theres a lot of women being trafficked to holland .
The industry can be regulated as in other countrys .
Smoking and drinking too much is a choice ,
and likely to more dangerous to your health than visiting an prostitute .

corner of hells

riclad wrote: »

Every country has escorts, sex worker,s ,
see prohibition in america against selling Alcohol in the 30,s .
making it illegal drives it underground and gives more money to crinimal
gangs.
the use of drugs, and excess drinking cause,s more suffering to society
than a few adults who wish to pay for sex.
We don,t need to re invent the wheel,
in holland escorts are registered ,they pay tax, brothel,s are legal.
I don,t think theres a lot of women being trafficked to holland .
The industry can be regulated as in other countrys .
Smoking and drinking too much is a choice ,
and likely to more dangerous to your health than visiting an prostitute .

Prostitution was legalized is Holland about 20 years and now Dutch authorities are considering debating banning it again , trafficking is still regarded as a huge problem and lots of people simply don't want their country associated with sex tourism.

anewme

39 people died in the back of a truck as result of trafficking.

RIP.

lozenges

dotsman wrote: »

Hence, you make it legal and regulate it.

Which is what I suggested in a earlier post on this thread.

corner of hells

dotsman wrote: »

Hence, you make it legal and regulate it.

So , let's hence it , make it legal and regulate it .

Would you expect everyone working in the industry to register and become tax compliant overnight ? For the of me I just can't see the average working girl wanting to register as a prostitute and nevermind pay tax , could you ? Bearing in mind a lot of those who enter the industry are doing it because of being short of money.

Would it lead to more trafficking? Would you allow a pimp , who are known for violence, extortion etc just become legal overnight.


Where were you would you want prostitution/ brothels be located? Do you want sex tourism in your town ?

Who's going to regulate the industry?

dvdman1

lozenges wrote: »

Which is what I suggested in a earlier post on this thread.

As ive said earlier every jurisdiction that has legalised it have seen an increase in prostitution and related activies.
You dont just make the prostitutes legal you also make the pimps legal, they may describe themselves as business owners and pay tax but many are manipulative and theres countless accounts of coercion that happens behind closed doors.
It doesnt add anything to society if anything it sexualises it more..do we want gangs of english lads coming to dublin in the future purly for a sex holiday? I say no

partyguinness

The_Brood wrote: »

Yep. It is the slow abandonment of not just morals but civilization itself really. The mockery and disdain for any kind of self-control and pursuit of matters non-material. It is a slow degradation back to the caveman era, where only thing that matters is your physical needs.

Rubbish. Prostitution has been around since time immemorial and always will be with us whether you like it or not.

What do they say about it being the oldest profession?

Sex is the very definition of satisfying physical needs.

dvdman1

partyguinness wrote: »

Rubbish. Prostitution has been around since time immemorial and always will be with us whether you like it or not.

What do they say about it being the oldest profession?

Sex is the very definition of satisfying physical needs.

Murder has been around, rape has been around since forever..that doesnt mean our principles have to be watered down just to suit these peoples sexual gratification...it'll be around forever of course and agreed it wont be stopped... but legalising something only gives a green light, go look at the data from holland.

dvdman1

dvdman1 wrote: »

Murder has been around, rape has been around since forever..that doesnt mean our principles have to be watered down just to suit these peoples sexual gratification...it'll be around forever of course and agreed it wont be stopped... but legalising something only gives a green light, go look at the data from holland.

As a matter of interest, were you for or against the legalisation of abortion?

partyguinness

dvdman1 wrote: »

Murder has been around, rape has been around since forever..that doesnt mean our principles have to be watered down just to suit these peoples sexual gratification...it'll be around forever of course and agreed it wont be stopped... but legalising something only gives a green light, go look at the data from holland.

What good are principles? As I said it has been around forever it has made no difference.

There is no 'one size fits all' solution grounded in principle. We have to accept that it exists (it does not mean you have to agree with it- I don't) and a pragmatic solution grounded in reality is needed. The same goes for drug use. I personally abhor abortion 'in principle' but I have accept the reality that it exists.

dvdman1

partyguinness wrote: »

What good are principles? As I said it has been around forever it has made no difference.

There is no 'one size fits all' solution grounded in principle. We have to accept that it exists (it does not mean you have to agree with it- I don't) and a pragmatic solution grounded in reality is needed. The same goes for drug use. I personally abhor abortion 'in principle' but I have accept the reality that it exists.

What good are principles?
They are the foundation for behaviour or for a chain of reasoning, when we break that chain we get more and more behaviour thats unwanted or not progressive.

Look...im like and reasonable guy out there, i understand its around but pressing the accept button changes our understanding and our childrens, not right away but for the next generation. If drugs were legal tomorrow what do u think will happen usage? It'll go up
Personal choice to be a prostitute doesnt trump the greater good for society

Feisar

partyguinness wrote: »

Rubbish. Prostitution has been around since time immemorial and always will be with us whether you like it or not.

What do they say about it being the oldest profession?

Sex is the very definition of satisfying physical needs.

Oldest profession because it was the one thing a woman had that she could trade for three hots and a cot. That's hardly the type of society one would wish to be propagating.

Hotblack Desiato

dvdman1 wrote: »

do we want gangs of english lads coming to dublin in the future purly for a sex holiday?

Because at the moment lads on stags never have sex :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

corner of hells wrote: »

Prostitution was legalized is Holland about 20 years and now Dutch authorities are considering debating banning it again

Citation needed.
It's easy for one or two conservative MPs to mouth off about something like that, this then gets picked up on foreign media as if its something which is actually going to happen.

NB there wouldn't be "sex tourism" and "drug tourism" if other countries were as pragmatic as the Dutch instead of being utter hypocrites. Sure weren't we happy to export the abortion issue for decades.

Randle P. McMurphy

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

dvdman1

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Because at the moment lads on stags never have sex :rolleyes:

Sex is not whats being discussed here, prostitution is the topic, you need to seperate the two

Mister Vain

touts wrote: »

Between two (or more) consenting adults willingly entering into the transaction then fair enough. However it seems that the vast majority of sex workers are either forced into the trade or are doing it purely out of desperation. Sure people can point to a few escorts who are happy to do it and are even in the media promoting their latest book or blog. However that's like saying my grandfather smoked 50 a day and lived to be 100. There are always exceptions but the exception of the few doesn't override the harm done to the majority. So for the greater good it is outlawed.

What makes you think that? Do you have any stats to back that up? I'd say its more likely that the vast majority of sex workers are neither happy with their job nor forced into it, its just a job.

corner of hells

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Citation needed.
It's easy for one or two conservative MPs to mouth off about something like that, this then gets picked up on foreign media as if its something which is actually going to happen.

NB there wouldn't be "sex tourism" and "drug tourism" if other countries were as pragmatic as the Dutch instead of being utter hypocrites. Sure weren't we happy to export the abortion issue for decades.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwjIrbqq6LTlAhVzqHEKHU4QBF0QFjAKegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2P4AN4HESTCU-CLwF1fBrt&ampcf=1

randd1

dvdman1 wrote: »

Sex is not whats being discussed here, prostitution is the topic, you need to seperate the two

How do you separate the two when one is the entire basis of the other? Prostitution and sex are intrinsically linked.

corner of hells

corner of hells wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwjIrbqq6LTlAhVzqHEKHU4QBF0QFjAKegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2P4AN4HESTCU-CLwF1fBrt&ampcf=1

I'm a little bit of a technophobe , so am struggling to post any citation.
It seems to be a pressure group which amassed 40000 signatures calling for a debate in the Dutch parliament.

dvdman1

randd1 wrote: »

How do you separate the two when one is the entire basis of the other? Prostitution and sex are intrinsically linked.

Money changes everything...
English lads coming here who have a 1 nite stand with an irish girl is NOT the same as an English lad coming here to have sex with prostitutes.

dotsman

anewme wrote: »

39 people died in the back of a truck as result of trafficking.

RIP.

Predominantly Chinese men.

The vast majority of people trafficked are not used for prostitution. They are typically made to pay off unrealistic debts, working in the shadows - in sweatshops, fishing industry, agriculture, kitchens, criminal gangs or prostitution, wherever they can make the most cash per hour (and work long hours). They do not work in regulated/customer facing roles where joe public would be able to spot the issue and report it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you mean...lol. I just like to answer questions. Remember jeanjolie in 2017? He asked so many questions as well. I'm the reincarnation.

Thank you!

That explains so much.

Hotblack Desiato

corner of hells wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amsterdam-red-light-district-failing-prostitution-sex-work-decriminalisation-doesnt-work-holland-a8206511.html%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwjIrbqq6LTlAhVzqHEKHU4QBF0QFjAKegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2P4AN4HESTCU-CLwF1fBrt&ampcf=1

Author has a book out about how evil the sex trade is. Quelle surprise.

Also a "number" of politicians and "dozens" of the public supported her. Noisy minority as usual

4000 signatures in Ireland is nothing. In the Netherlands it's less than nothing.

ToddyDoody

Paying for sex is indeed illegal but penile / vaginal stimulation is not.

corner of hells

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Author has a book out about how evil the sex trade is. Quelle surprise.

Also a "number" of politicians and "dozens" of the public supported her. Noisy minority as usual

4000 signatures in Ireland is nothing. In the Netherlands it's less than nothing.

I think its actually 40000 signatures. I quoted a single article, if you want I'll keep citing them and you can take them all apart. Theres quite a few , I was kinda surprised myself.

SoupMonster

dotsman wrote: »

Predominantly Chinese men.

The vast majority of people trafficked are not used for prostitution. They are typically made to pay off unrealistic debts, working in the shadows - in sweatshops, fishing industry, agriculture, kitchens, criminal gangs or prostitution, wherever they can make the most cash per hour (and work long hours). They do not work in regulated/customer facing roles where joe public would be able to spot the issue and report it.

UNODC diasagrees. (Global Report on Trafficking in Persons, 2018)
49% Women (83% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 13% for forced labour)
23% Girls (72% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 21% for forced labour)
21% Men (10% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 82% for forced labour)
7% Boys (27% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 50% for forced labour)

Airyfairy12

SoupMonster wrote: »

UNODC diasagrees. (Global Report on Trafficking in Persons, 2018)
49% Women (83% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 13% for forced labour)
23% Girls (72% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 21% for forced labour)
21% Men (10% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 82% for forced labour)
7% Boys (27% trafficked for sexual exploitation, 50% for forced labour)

I dont think people who pay for sex care about facts. They like thinking that all prostitutes want to have sex with them.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I dont think people who pay for sex care about facts. They like thinking that all prostitutes want to have sex with them.

Good one :rolleyes:

corner of hells

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good one :rolleyes:

Instead of being so quick to be condescending, have a read of the post with the statistics, might give you some food for thought.

corner of hells

corner of hells wrote: »

Instead of being so quick to be condescending, have a read of the post with the statistics, might give you some food for thought.

Thanks. I don't see what it has to do with the post I was responding to.

SoupMonster

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks. I don't see what it has to do with the post I was responding to.

Maybe you would like to comment on a report by the Dutch National Rapporteur on Trafficking in Human Beings and Sexual Violence against Children.
{At least 1300 dutch girls per year trafficked, exploited (in their well-regulated sex industry)}

Or comment on the {Valkenburg case}.
Despite the 29 men facing up to 12 years in prison, most were sentenced to 200 hours community service and 1 day in prison. 2 got prison sentences of 4 and 6 months, because they worked in youth services. 2 were too ashamed to face trial and killed themselves instead.

"They had the opportunity to stop what they were doing. Just one man asked for her passport and when she refused, he left but did not call the police, leaving the child to her fate."

anewme

The BBC/RTE Drama "Doing Money" was based on a true story about a girl trafficked into Prostitution in Ireland.

If you havent watched it, please watch it. It has stayed with me for a long time.

SoupMonster

anewme wrote: »

The BBC/RTE Drama "Doing Money" was based on a true story about a girl trafficked into Prostitution in Ireland.

If you havent watched it, please watch it. It has stayed with me for a long time.

Have a look at the 3 threads started by JosephHenry on this site.
Deliberate attempt to smear Anna, the woman that drama is based on.

anewme

SoupMonster wrote: »

Have a look at the 3 threads started by JosephHenry on this site.
Deliberate attempt to smear Anna, the woman that drama is based on.

Some very poisonous people on here allright.

pinkyeye

Sorry lads, if you have fantasies that a prostitute enjoys sex you're completely deluded. A woman who enjoys sex can get it anytime, anywhere without doing it for a living.

The ones doing it for a living are doing it purely out of desperation and they hate every little bit of your sweaty body.

anewme

Lot of new Posters registering just for this thread.

ILoveYourVibes

Everyone has to pay for sex in some way ....whether it be emotional . cuddling ..housework or cash. Lets be honest!

ILoveYourVibes

anewme wrote: »

who in most cases despise them.

Thats not always true.

A lot men's wives despise them....at times. That angry hate **** tho!

Mickey Mike

Its not just women that's selling sex, have any of you tried Transexuals, Transvesties, gays and other queers, so lots of choices.
But the game is up. Its been illegal to pay anyone for sexual services since March 2017.
Let us respect our laws of the land, our politicians have worked very hard to get this legislation passed.