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Is the 2008 Housing Crisis just an illusion? (US Media video in opening post)

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    #32
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,191 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    terrydel wrote: »
    You obviously work in the system if you are seeing it on a daily basis.
    So you essentially think we dont really have a homeless crisis at all then?

    I think we should rename it to pathways or something similar as that's what it basically is. Homeless suggests you live on the street, that's not correct as I don't know anyone who's went into the air b&b who spent a night outdoors.
    There's is no shortage of vacant homes in the state.


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    #33
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I think we should rename it to pathways or something similar as that's what it basically is. Homeless suggests you live on the street, that's not correct as I don't know anyone who's went into the air b&b who spent a night outdoors.
    There's is no shortage of vacant homes in the state.

    I was thinking the same so I looked it up.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness
    Broader then I was thinking.

    Vacant homes.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/nama-progress-report-4421912-Jan2019/
    https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/councils-take-just-a-third-of-available-nama-social-housing-37006163.html

    Again all comes back govt policies.


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    #34
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,191 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Don't get me started either, sorry your vacant house isn't suitable it's got a fireplace....Jesus wept.


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    #35
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    beauf wrote: »
    No I don't. That just a lazy stereotypical bias reply if someone points out the flaws in some of these far left tabloid sound bytes with no bias in reality. Or basic maths or economics. Why do you have stereotype people as on one side or the other.



    Its not just this Govt either its successive Govts. I don't disagree with anything you've said about the Govt, that is actually what I always argue. Its not about Landlords. Thats just a lazy argument. No need to bring them into it at all.

    The issue Institutional landlords was well known before they became part of any discussion. They are also largely irrelevant. They are a small % of the market and mainly target the most profitable end of it. They will not fix the housing crisis, unless there is a change in policy. They will probably make it worse. Lots example of that.

    The issue is Govt policy. They have done a masterly job of misdirection, while doing almost nothing to fix the crisis. They will wait (as long as it takes) for the market to balance itself, then claim they fixed it.

    I agree with you that there are flaws in the current system re. small landlords (up til January of this year I was one for approx 12 odd years, I left because my brother decided to move into the place). I probably had a different mindset to the majority in terms of the cost of it, it was costing me around 1500-2000 each year but given my own ideology I just find it hard to complain about that when I'm financially in a position to be a landlord in the first place, and so many are worse off.
    I think the situation pertaining to institutional landlords is completely immoral. They take, take, take and nothing back essentially. It sickens me this is allowed to carry on. and yes they are making things worse, by driving up the cost in search of profit.
    Regardless of the impact of other governments on this crisis, and they did have an impact, it lessens year on year. Its got exponentially worse in the 8 years + of FG. They are purely a neoliberal, market worshiping party and its painfully obvious that that ideology is not fixing the problem but making it far worse.
    We need radical solutions and for me that involves large state involvement in the provision of housing, a typically left wing policy.
    As for the rent cap, I've no sympathy for landlords on it because it was a solution to a problem that was going to get far worse without it, it was the lesser of two evils, piss off landlords or send thousands more into homelessness.


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    #36
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I think we should rename it to pathways or something similar as that's what it basically is. Homeless suggests you live on the street, that's not correct as I don't know anyone who's went into the air b&b who spent a night outdoors.
    There's is no shortage of vacant homes in the state.

    So you dont work in the system.
    Please back up the statements you are making on the numbers of people 'gaming' the system, with actual facts.


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    #37
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I think we should rename it to pathways or something similar as that's what it basically is. Homeless suggests you live on the street, that's not correct as I don't know anyone who's went into the air b&b who spent a night outdoors.
    There's is no shortage of vacant homes in the state.

    It doesnt suggest you live on the street, so you are wrong. Clearly no expert on the subject.


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    #38
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    terrydel wrote: »
    You obviously work in the system if you are seeing it on a daily basis.
    So you essentially think we dont really have a homeless crisis at all then?

    Terry- honestly, you're coming across as trolling- when you selectively misinterpret/misquote what other people say. This is a one and only warning- stop trolling and deliberately misquoting/misinterpreting people- or unfortunately, we'll have to take further action. Cop on.


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    #39
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    terrydel wrote: »
    ...
    As for the rent cap, I've no sympathy for landlords on it because it was a solution to a problem that was going to get far worse without it, it was the lesser of two evils, piss off landlords or send thousands more into homelessness....

    Why are we talking about the rent cap? Rent caps don't work. Or rather they work for a small group, but make rents worse for everyone outside that group.
    Now supply is increasing slightly (still a drop in the ocean), and new regulation has slowed the market, is what is working.
    Rent caps and the way they were implemented here, really drives new rents higher and drives cheaper rent out of the market. Which suits investors coming into the market.

    But people don't see the bigger picture.


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    #40
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    terrydel wrote: »
    So you dont work in the system.
    Please back up the statements you are making on the numbers of people 'gaming' the system, with actual facts.

    Why does only once side of this discussion have to supply facts while the other can just post soundbites, and ignore any questions. If once side doesn't have to neither does any one else. Fair is fair.


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    #41
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    beauf wrote: »
    Why are we talking about the rent cap? Rent caps don't work. Or rather they work for a small group, but make rents worse for everyone outside that group.
    Now supply is increasing slightly (still a drop in the ocean), and new regulation has slowed the market, is what is working.
    Rent caps and the way they were implemented here, really drives new rents higher and drives cheaper rent out of the market. Which suits investors coming into the market.

    But people don't see the bigger picture.

    It was mentioned in a previous post so I'm just responding to that.
    My own choice would have been far more drastic, proper rent controls.


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    #42
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    beauf wrote: »
    Why does only once side of this discussion have to supply facts while the other can just post soundbites, and ignore any questions. If once side doesn't have to neither does any one else. Fair is fair.

    The figures on homelessness are there for all to see.
    When posters generalise about certain groups in society, and always to vilify, why should they not be asked to back up their statements.
    And calling anything from a left viewpoint a soundbite is really condescending.


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    #43
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I'll take that to mean you won't be backing up your statements, but will continue to insist people you disagree with do.

    I only said one side of the discussion. You have defined that as everything from the left not me.
    People can argue on both sides of a point of view. Don't have to polarized as your straw man implies.


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    #44
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    beauf wrote: »
    I'll take that to mean you won't be backing up your statements, but will continue to insist people you disagree with do.

    I only said one side of the discussion. You have defined that as everything from the left not me.
    People can argue on both sides of a point of view. Don't have to polarized as your straw man implies.

    You only use the term soundbite to categorise leftist opinions as far as I can see.
    You were clearly referring to me and those like me when you used the term. Be as disingenuous as you like, but it was in direct reply to my post.
    What statements have I made that I havent backed up?


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    #45
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Terry- if you want to debate this- please start a new thread- as its derailing this one.


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    #46
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,191 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    terrydel wrote: »
    The figures on homelessness are there for all to see.
    When posters generalise about certain groups in society, and always to vilify, why should they not be asked to back up their statements.
    And calling anything from a left viewpoint a soundbite is really condescending.

    I'm going to assume your referring to my post when saying someone is allowed to vilify. I don't think you can call an observation based on first hand evidence vilification.
    You want me to back up my statement, sorry but it's an annomious message board, I won't be handing over location, occupation details in the hope it adds more weight to my statement. I've no skin in the game there is no motive for me to have made up what I stated.


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    #47
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think if a poster has had a warning it's only fair for everyone to drop the subject and move to a different topic. Agree to disagree etc.


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    #48
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    As people are obviously interested in discussing this- I have moved it off into its own thread (rather than allowing it derail the 2019 property thread).
    I'm not offering an opinion on the topic- I don't think its black and white- but I do think we all have the propensity to learn from each other's point of view.
    As always- please respect each other's point of view and remain civil towards one another- if you disagree with what another poster posts- refute it factually- do not resort to personal insults.


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