Why are there so many socially awkward people today?

Wibbs

tylercheribini wrote: »

So much of conversation is vacous nonsense(eg the weather)just for the sake of talking. The dreaded trapped-with-a-stranger-on-public transport jibber jabber is excruciating.

You're missing the point of said "vacuous nonsense", as many do when this subject comes up. Small talk is - if one wanted to get nerdy about it - is like the handshaking of an old style modem. Maybe an irritating noise for you, but necessary. A way for people to gauge the social ease and safety of others they meet, before they might venture into deeper social waters. EG "Jaysus the weather's woeful. The nights are closing in. Oh I know, it's awful isn't it? Any complaints? Ah sure who'd listen to me"
That's the "handshake". An accepted and mutually agreed upon form of easy interaction between strangers to establish some trust in this covenant and ironically enough for the socially anxious, a way to lower social anxiety.


This I have found is a major stumbling block for those that chime in on this kind of matter and say they're "introverts", or "socially anxious/adrift" and use that as a reason for certain attitudes and social responses.


If one examines it, it can be seen as selfish; well a more useful way to view it would be it's more about the self, it's mostly about them. How they feel in social situations and largely eff anyone else. Extreme extroverts are the very same. Social interaction has to consist of at least some genuine engagement from other people.

Wibbs

Greentopia wrote: »

Incels. That's a thing too. Maybe get out and talk to real women, show them equal respect and kindness as you would expect to be treated, instead of getting your ideas about them from American emotionally stunted man children online who hate women because of their own insecurities and lack of self esteem.

Aye G 100%, but don't leave out the equally American emotionally stunted women children online who hate men because of their own insecurities and lack of self esteem. Much of the Yank online world is fcuked in so many ways, much like their current culture and it's best to ignore as much of that guff as is possible.

tylercheribini

"A closed mouth catches no flies"

tylercheribini

For those saying the lost art of conversation is a new phenomenon,taken by Stanley Kubrick in the 1940's.

Tony EH

tylercheribini wrote: »

For those saying the lost art of conversation is a new phenomenon,taken by Stanley Kubrick in the 1940's.

Nobody ever conversed on subways.

MrAbyss

I think a lot of people live in fear these days. The mass media has them terrified of everything from Brexit, to Trump to Warm Weather. It is an age of non stop news and the same misery every day. Therefore if people are scared of life, they are scared of other people.

The tribe was killed by the 'BREAKING NEWS' graphics.

_Brian

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I would be one myself. No friends, no girlfriend. Pretty much regarding social interaction since 6th class 11 years ago. It seems to afflict males more than females.

I think the internet made people less connected. I spent nearly all of my life on my computer locked inside. That and being an only child contributed to this.

Or perhaps it's genetic. Some are just more introverted.

There have always been socially awkward people.
When I think back to school there were plenty, never went out with anyone, never went out at all, never married afterwards.

Living in rural Ireland it’s full of old bachelors and spinsters who were the socially awkward of their time.

Humans have always existed on a massive scale of social ability, modern technology neither adds not detracts from it.

tylercheribini

Tony EH wrote: »

Nobody ever conversed on subways.

I beg to differ,see my previous post regarding public transport.

sbsquarepants

Greentopia wrote: »

I don't think I'm socially awkward but am definitely much happier being with only one or two people than being out in big social groups or around noisy people. And it helps I'm happy with my own company, and I have some good friends.

I'm the same. I could never understand the appeal of large groups, still don't. Groups of 20 or 30 people going off on holidays, or to football matches and so on - no thanks, i'd rather do pretty much anything else! I'm not afraid of it, it doesn't make me anxious or anything like that - i just don't find it enjoyable, 3 or 4 people is around my limit, after that i just loose interest!

riffmongous

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I would be one myself. No friends, no girlfriend. Pretty much regarding social interaction since 6th class 11 years ago. It seems to afflict males more than females.

I think the internet made people less connected. I spent nearly all of my life on my computer locked inside. That and being an only child contributed to this.

Or perhaps it's genetic. Some are just more introverted.

Would you ever consider posting in some of your threads? Or better yet posting a normal thread, or joining in one you didn't start? I don't want to be mean, the total opposite actually but come on man, you post all the time about social interaction but none of your threads are in anyway social. Stop worrying about it and just join in

weldoninhio

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I would be one myself. No friends, no girlfriend. Pretty much regarding social interaction since 6th class 11 years ago. It seems to afflict males more than females.

I think the internet made people less connected. I spent nearly all of my life on my computer locked inside. That and being an only child contributed to this.

Or perhaps it's genetic. Some are just more introverted.

Because from a young age now people are conditioned to think everything is great. Finish 28th in the school sports day? Wahey!! Heres a participation medal!! Well done!! Life is not like that, like is tough. And children aren't been given the tools to deal with life outside their bubble. So easier to lock yourself away and avoid interactions in case someone "offends" you or mistreats you and you have a meltdown about how thats not fair.

Tony EH

tylercheribini wrote: »

I beg to differ,see my previous post regarding public transport.

The tube or the subway or even buses were never really places of lively conversation. You might have had the odd auld wan or auld lad spark up a "howaya" or something, but they weren't regular.

But that's not what the OP is really talking about.

There's a genuine inability with a couple of generations that is preventing them from interacting on, even a basic level, in real world talking and I've seen this myself over the past few years, even in boozers.

Was out recently with a group from another workplace and the level of strain in the conversation was palpable. Most of the people were 20 somethings (I'm a 40 something), but no matter what subject was brought up, it ended after a few sentences, be it politics, movies, TV, work, whatever you're having yourself.

Got talking to one to he Yanks (late 30's) who was over and thank christ, because at least he had something to say. So that was a few hours of yap about Trump and whatnot.

But surveying the crowd, a lot of them ended up with glowing faces as they just retreated to their phones.

Fucking sad sight as I'd say the same people glued to the Samsungs would give their opinion on anything in the blink of an eye when they're online.

JohnnyFlash

I don’t think the importance of strong parenting and team sports should be underestimated. My older fella isn’t socially awkward and is a right hit with the women, plays sports, has loads of friends, arrogant little bollix at times.

The younger lad though was becoming deeply socially awkward. Those computer games are a disaster. Sitting inside in his room with a headset on playing war games. Fücking stupid.

Anyways, I managed to get him to go back playing hurling after a two year absence. The difference it has made is night and day. Much happier in himself. He will always be a different kettle of fish to his brother, but at least I get the feeling I won’t be seeing him hanging around rock bars and heading to comic cons with overweight goth women.

ArnoldJRimmer

Tony EH wrote: »

The tube or the subway or even buses were never really places of lively conversation. You might have had the odd auld wan or auld lad spark up a "howaya" or something, but they weren't regular.

But that's not what the OP is really talking about.

There's a genuine inability with a couple of generations that is preventing them from interacting on, even a basic level, in real world talking and I've seen this myself over the past few years, even in boozers.

Was out recently with a group from another workplace and the level of strain in the conversation was palpable. Most of the people were 20 somethings (I'm a 40 something), but no matter what subject was brought up, it ended after a few sentences, be it politics, movies, TV, work, whatever you're having yourself.

Got talking to one to he Yanks (late 30's) who was over and thank christ, because at least he had something to say. So that was a few hours of yap about Trump and whatnot.

But surveying the crowd, a lot of them ended up with glowing faces as they just retreated to their phones.

Fucking sad sight as I'd say the same people glued to the Samsungs would give their opinion on anything in the blink of an eye when they're online.

Are you sure they just don't want to talk to an old fogey like yourself ?

Joking aside, I've had similar experiences, with a steady flow of graduates in and out of the office. Difference being that a lot of them won't bother showing up for the social events in the first place. But also plenty of normal sociable ones. Cr@p drinkers though

tylercheribini

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Are you sure they just don't want to talk to an old fogey like yourself ?

Joking aside, I've had similar experiences, with a steady flow of graduates in and out of the office. Difference being that a lot of them won't bother showing up for the social events in the first place. But also plenty of normal sociable ones. Cr@p drinkers though

Workplace conservation(particularly with hierarchy) employs an entirely different register which is work in itself.

gsi300024v

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Because we don't have proper communities anymore.

People live in housing estates, or worse apartment blocks.
They rent as opposed to own properties, so they'll always be considered as passing-through.
They don't rely on neighbours for help if something goes wrong, they ring a plumber, or motor breakdown assistance, employ people to collect their kids from school. Everything is transactional, it's bought as opposed to building relationships and owing people favours. It's a convenience culture.

There's not as many people playing sports after 20-something, unless they work in a large company that organizes after-work sports.

It's only when you get older and have families that there's more incentive to build relationships with others... mutual babysitting, kids going to friends birthday parties, looking after the neighbours house when they're on holiday, feeding their cat etc...

I think tech has changed neighbors, before when my mam was pregnant or had young kids, my dad was at work and couldn't be contacted, so you'd to reply on neighbours, now we've more cars and are far more contactable, we don't need rely so much on that person next door.

Jimmy_Conway

Too many snowflakes about,

a good clatter witihin reason and if you were being bold never did anyone any harm growing up

tylercheribini

Tony EH wrote: »

The tube or the subway or even buses were never really places of lively conversation. You might have had the odd auld wan or auld lad spark up a "howaya" or something, but they weren't regular.

But that's not what the OP is really talking about.

Fucking sad sight as I'd say the same people glued to the Samsungs would give their opinion on anything in the blink of an eye when they're online.

"Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth."-Oscar Wilde

The subway picture I posted from decades ago is highly relevant to this debate as people here seem to be singlehandedly attributing a perceived lack of social skills to the ubiquity of handheld distractions, evidently in the 1940's this was just in print format if one chose to isolate themselves from others.

mr_fegelien

weldoninhio wrote: »

Because from a young age now people are conditioned to think everything is great. Finish 28th in the school sports day? Wahey!! Heres a participation medal!! Well done!! Life is not like that, like is tough. And children aren't been given the tools to deal with life outside their bubble. So easier to lock yourself away and avoid interactions in case someone "offends" you or mistreats you and you have a meltdown about how thats not fair.

What do you mean life is tough?

Jimmy_Conway

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you mean life is tough?

Life isn't a bed of roses chief

Get out from behind your screen and experience the real world

mr_fegelien

Jimmy_Conway wrote: »

Life isn't a bed of roses chief

Get out from behind your screen and experience the real world

I do go out to college (PLC) but I have been unable to make friends. There seems to be a strong gender divide.

Anyway, how hard is life really?

Jimmy_Conway

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I do go out to college (PLC) but I have been unable to make friends. There seems to be a strong gender divide.

Anyway, how hard is life really?

Did you not fancy another crack at the leaving cert to try and beat your record points total?

Life is a hard for a myriad of reasons, you dont know half the problems people have, just what they want you to see

Explain how life is easy?

mr_fegelien

Jimmy_Conway wrote: »

Did you not fancy another crack at the leaving cert to try and beat your record points total?

Life is a hard for a myriad of reasons, you dont know half the problems people have, just what they want you to see

Explain how life is easy?

Well I knew a girl (columbian/irish) who is attractive, smart and from a rich family. Luck in both categories though she worked hard and got one of the highest points in Blackrock College.

She graduated in 2017 and got an internshi with a large company in the States and earned €700 a week.

Her instagram also has her taking pictures with her equally attractive and successful boyfriend. I'd say an easy life but I don't hate her. I wish her well, she's far more successful than me.

Tony EH

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Are you sure they just don't want to talk to an old fogey like yourself ?

Humph...

jackboy

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Well I knew a girl (columbian/irish) who is attractive, smart and from a rich family. Luck in both categories though she worked hard and got one of the highest points in Blackrock College.

She graduated in 2017 and got an internshi with a large company in the States and earned €700 a week.

Her instagram also has her taking pictures with her equally attractive and successful boyfriend. I'd say an easy life but I don't hate her. I wish her well, she's far more successful than me.

You say yourself she worked hard for what she got. That’s not an easy life but a productive life.

Tony EH

tylercheribini wrote: »

The subway picture I posted from decades ago is highly relevant to this debate as people here seem to be singlehandedly attributing a perceived lack of social skills to the ubiquity of handheld distractions, evidently in the 1940's this was just in print format if one chose to isolate themselves from others.

I know when it's from and who took it. I've seen them before.

But one swallow doesn't make a summer.

Here's another Kubrick photo from a subway car in the 40's.



It's most absently of newpapers. But still nobody talking.


But, the point still stands. Subways, undergrounds, buses and what have you were never places of great conversations, ever.

There was never a time when everyone one a subway car would be engrossed in deep conversation, only to be ruined by a distraction of some description.

weldoninhio

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you mean life is tough?

Life is full of rejection, sadness, embarrassment, disappointment etc. If you aren’t given the tools to deal with these things, which will 100% happen to you, no one goes through life without experiencing them, then you’ll crumble at the first sign of adversity. So it’s easier to keep to yourself and hope none of them happen to you. Which is bollix, they’ll happen anyway and if you can deal with it you also get all of the great things in life.

Fr_Dougal

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I do go out to college (PLC) but I have been unable to make friends. There seems to be a strong gender divide.

Anyway, how hard is life really?

Life is as hard as you make it.

You told us that you didn’t study for your leaving cert, on both occasions. That you drank antifreeze, take various different drugs and god knows what else.

This comes across as you making life difficult for yourself, then feeling sorry for yourself when things don’t go well.

If you keep on like this you’ll find that life gets harder and harder, but if you knuckle down you’ll get on great. The choice is yours.

riffmongous

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Well I knew a girl (columbian/irish) who is attractive, smart and from a rich family. Luck in both categories though she worked hard and got one of the highest points in Blackrock College.

She graduated in 2017 and got an internshi with a large company in the States and earned €700 a week.

Her instagram also has her taking pictures with her equally attractive and successful boyfriend. I'd say an easy life but I don't hate her. I wish her well, she's far more successful than me.

Anyway she'll still break up with him, fail at her job, her family will die etc at some point..I don't think that life is easier... but rather some people definitely have it harder.. at least that's my outlook. Everyone who is a functioning emotional human being will struggle and suffer at some point, and some people sadly have to struggle a lot more. Some will never even get s chance. It's why I think we've got to help each other out along the way, especially those who have it harder, rather than looking at those who don't have it as tough

dartboardio

It's easy for people to say 'life is as difficult as you make it'

I feel you OP, I'm 21, and I 'get' your post. Everyone I know has some sort of social awkward trait about them at times, including me.

A few years ago as a teen I would have drowned myself in it, and it would consume me as a person. But nowadays it's just a trait that may or may not show every so often, other than that, I am generally quite good at communicating, and telling myself there's no need to feel awkward, about anything for that matter!

But yep I do think it's all down to Internet usage, being constantly invested in other people's lifestyles, comparing yourself, etc.

Im just happy I can distinguish my 'normal' feelings from my awkward or anxious ones and just put it down to a bad day instead of painting myself with that entire brush like I used to!

ToddyDoody

weemcd wrote: »

I think he's missed out a lot in some ways.

Who's to say?

I think many people are shallow but I know that each to their own.

Rubberchikken

There was always social awkwardness it just probably never had a name or was discussed as much.
For the nest that its talked about.
Men in particular were often afraid to admit it and many would gave retreated into isolation.

Yeah many people are on their phones but sometimes any communication is better than none.

kowloon

weemcd wrote: »

I've a new flatmate in who I work with, he's 25, nearly 26 and I'm 31. He's only been in a short time but it's apparent he gets home, cooks something and goes into his room, eats it in bed and watches YouTube/plays computer games.

I lived with a guy who we didn't see for days at a time, similar situation.
I have friends who have replaced a lot of their social interaction with Twitter and Whatsapp; They can't get their faces out of their phone long enough to interact fully with the people in the same room as them. You don't learn to interact with people in person if you're too busy texting anyone and everyone somewhere else.

I'm 42 years old and I've always felt socially awkward. It's hardly something new for people to feel. From a personal pov, I'd view my own social awkwardness as being due to my development as a teenager, and a lack of personal responsibility. I found it extremely difficult to fit in, so I withdrew from society. I read books, played computer games (mostly this was prior to the emergence of social media and mobile gaming), and wallowed in bouts of depression. I had no friends, except for a few "close" acquaintances.

The lack of personal responsibility comes into effect because I failed to learn the social skills needed to mingle with others. I didn't learn the hierarchical nature of male social systems, I didn't learn to look past rejection from women, or rejections when seeking friendships. The danger is acting to extremes and embracing the extreme perception of yourself.

Throughout the last two decades, I've since examined hundreds of skills and philosophies regarding communication with others. I've studied and acquired certifications in Psychology, NLP, marketing, and other disciplines all relating to communication, society and the mind. I still feel socially awkward. It doesn't matter that I've received awards within companies and business affiliation organisations abroad for being charismatic and charming. It doesn't matter that I'm confident now in approaching women, or steering conversations within multiple groups. I still feel socially awkward. Like I'm faking it.

The problem is that the image you create for yourself as a teen tends to stay with you forever afterwards. You create an adult image, but the teen image stays within it. So, while I can be charming and popular now, I will continue to have that introverted teenager within me.

As for present day, I'm a lecturer at University in China. Both the Chinese students and international students who come here, display various degrees of social awkwardness. Most of them are addicted to their phones. They're all on social media chatting but rarely have any extended conversations off their phones. Instead, they relegate all conversions to their phones, even with people inside the same room. Tinder (and similar apps) are just as bad because they reinforce a shallowness about dating, and appearance. Changes in social perception about casual sex reinforce the sense of isolation because intimacy is pushed to the background being replaced by physical "needs". Humans need a degree of intimacy in their lives, especially when it comes to sex, but these apps encourage the opposite. Peoples perceptions are being altered, but they're mostly unaware of it until they're much older and talking fond memories of the "old days".

The internet encourages extremism. Of all types, and most people fail to recognize how these extremes are altering their perceptions. Female students seek guys who are far beyond what is commonly available to them, and have unrealistic beliefs in their self-worth... while at the same time experiencing regular bouts of depression about their appearance. The guys are just as bad although in different ways.

I tend to teach communication related subjects, and there is a definite decline in the ability of people to communicate and understand each other. In spite of all the claims about the importance of emotional intelligence, and understanding each other, people are far less inclined to actually try to understand each other. There's a constant sense of fear in them as if they're afraid to discover the true personality of other people and in themselves. Most soul-searching exercises fail these days, and getting students to voice their actual opinions is torture. They're all bent on repeating unfounded articles they've read online. It's rather sad, actually.

Personally, I'd point fingers at two areas. Social media, and modern psychology. Psychology has created so many social issues in people by being introduced so widely into the mainstream consciousness. Too much vague nonsense is spouted as fact, and not open to discussion. It doesn't help that most research comes from the US, is politically motivated and funded by many groups without consideration to inherent bias. [or the long term effects of the introduction of such psychological treatments... along with the connection between psychology and drug manufacturing firms, as seen by the use of drugs on children in schools. Little consideration is made about the long term effects and how it will shape society]

But as others have said, I'd suggest growing a thicker skin, and going outside. Get outside your head, and explore life. Learn the skills needed for social interaction beyond social media. Engage in dating and learn to understand both yourself and others. Not just the good bits, but also the negatives. And avoid the extremes in behavior and perception. Lastly, learn to forgive yourself. You're not supposed to be perfect. Nobody is.

gsi300024v

If you are social awkward and haven't many close pals who you let in and know you, it means you probably don't know others too well either. So from the outside the attractive girl with a good job etc seems like she's a great life and is very happy, and she might be, but you don't actually know her.
I wasn't great at having proper friendships before so didn't see thst my struggles in life were a lot more common then I believed them to be. Now I can talk more openly and let people in more, its great, and people might have been thru similar situations to yourself so it can be great to discuss it all.
One person in work I got to work with for a day and get to know, she seemed so self confident and good at the job, it turns out she is a person who worries and stresses anxiously like me, I'd have never have guessed.
A pal once said, we've sometimes a bad habit of judging our insides by other people's outsides.