Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

39 people found dead in trailer in UK

Options
1…1314161819…50

Comments

  • Options
    #452
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Why don't Chinese people not just holiday in UK and then disappear. Seems odd to go about it this way.

    Its probably people who are too poor to afford a holiday in a place like the UK, or acquire the necessary visas.

    They are shipped in by human traffickers who then have a debt owed to them, which is paid off through forced labour.


  • Options
    #453
    Ronaldinho
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Why don't Chinese people not just holiday in UK and then disappear. Seems odd to go about it this way.

    Maybe difficult to get tourist Visas?

    Maybe better to get in undetected and then get fake documents rather than being 'in the system' as having entered the country but not departed?


  • Options
    #454
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    No Bills wrote: »
    I believe this is the Irish company that owns the refrigerated trailer:
    https://gtreurope.com/
    They are in the business of renting trailers.

    Their office is located just beside the immigration centre :D


  • Options
    #455
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,243 ✭✭✭Esse85


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Why don't Chinese people not just holiday in UK and then disappear. Seems odd to go about it this way.

    Because UK authorities would know these people are in the country then, would have passport details etc and would be on the lookout to send them back when caught.


  • Options
    #456
    Utter Consternation
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭Utter Consternation


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Why don't Chinese people not just holiday in UK and then disappear. Seems odd to go about it this way.

    Oh dear. You really think these people could afford a holiday? They would never get the money upfront to pay for one and god knows how they scraped together the cash to get transported in the back of that lorry.

    That sounds like Alan Partridges quote about the Irish Famine.

    Ridiculous. :D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #457
    Esse85
    Registered Users Posts: 8,243 ✭✭✭Esse85


    Utter Consternation wrote: »
    Oh dear. You really think these people could afford a holiday? They would never get the money upfront to pay for one and god knows how they scraped together the cash to get transported in the back of that lorry.

    That sounds like Alan Partridges quote about the Irish Famine.

    Ridiculous. :D

    I would of thought booking a holiday is cheaper than using being smuggled in due to the high risk involved.

    I thought I read or heard before that these people get charged extortionate prices to risk getting into another country.
    How they get the money is another question.


  • Options
    #458
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,772 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    easypazz wrote: »
    Free movement of goods?

    And how do you seal a curtain sider?

    What if its just a flat bottomed trailer with loose goods strapped down under tarpaulins?

    Do containers between Belfast and Scotland need to be sealed since its the same country?

    Can I drive a container from Dublin to London via Scotland to avoid sealing the container?



    Yes all you mentioned is correct But this isn't a curtain sider and it sailed form Belgium to England ,


  • Options
    #459
    No Bills
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭No Bills


    It was stated by Yvette Cooper MP on BBC Radio news at lunctime that refrigerated containers are being used by people traffickers because they are unlikely to be opened for inspection.


  • Options
    #460
    strawdog
    Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭strawdog


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    I think as much as people are jumping on the media for being too quick in publicising this man's details etc. they are also being too quick in terms of assuming his innocence.

    There's a decent chance he was aware of what was in the unit he was carrying and had stopped at this location to release the 39 people illegally into the UK. Then found them dead and phoned the emergency services claiming he had not known they were in the unit.

    Possibly he's an innocent victim in all this but it's also possible he's involved.


    Yes there is a decent chance he's involved, but on the off chance that he should turn out to not be guilty of anything, there is no chance now that his photo and details can be withdrawn from the public sphere. If (and only if) its the latter, I think he would have enough to deal with without forever being publicly associated with this horrendous crime.

    Presumption of innocence isn't about our hunch on someone's guilt, its about protecting those who have not yet had anything proven against them.


  • Options
    #461
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,772 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Why don't Chinese people not just holiday in UK and then disappear. Seems odd to go about it this way.



    Because then the authority's know there in England ,


    When they fail to leave within the time of the holiday Visa there names are flagged so authority's know they have over stayed there welcome and are in England,


    This way they have no idea they are there in England in the first place,


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #462
    No Bills
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭No Bills


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    No one would hire a truck and driver in NI to come over to Uk and drive to Kent to bring a trailer 10 miles up the road. Makes no sense.
    From what I can see, the distance from Purfleet port/dock to the point where the truck stopped (Eastern Avenue, Waterglade Industrial Park) seems to be less than 3 kilometres.


  • Options
    #463
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Yes all you mentioned is correct But this isn't a curtain sider and it sailed form Belgium to England ,

    You said containers between Dublin and Holyhead are sealed under EU law.

    But you agree curtain siders are not sealed on the same route.

    You also seem to accept there are no seals under EU on containers going from Dublin to London via Belfast / Scotland.

    Have you a link to the EU law in question please so we can clear this up.

    Or can you explain why curtain siders don't need to be sealed but containers do?


  • Options
    #464
    celt262
    Registered Users Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭celt262


    No Bills wrote: »
    From what I can see, the distance from Purfleet port/dock to the point where the truck stopped (Eastern Avenue, Waterglade Industrial Park) seems to be less than 3 kilometres.

    It would seem to be a strange location to let them out if he was in on it due to the chances of been seen opening the doors and letting them off.


  • Options
    #465
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    easypazz wrote: »
    You said containers between Dublin and Holyhead are sealed under EU law.

    But you agree curtain siders are not sealed on the same route.

    You also seem to accept there are no seals under EU on containers going from Dublin to London via Belfast / Scotland.

    Have you a link to the EU law in question please so we can clear this up.

    Or can you explain why curtain siders don't need to be sealed but containers do?

    My guess is that curtain siders have more than the one way to access the cargo, plastic and steel curtain buckles can easily enough be opened to gain access, likewise the front and rear curtain tensioners can easily be loosened to gain access

    Not so with a fridge or box van that has only the rear barn type/roller shutter doors, secure them, and you (in theory) have secured access.


  • Options
    #466
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,996 ✭✭✭Cordell


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Because then the authority's know there in England ,


    When they fail to leave within the time of the holiday Visa there names are flagged so authority's know they have over stayed there welcome and are in England,


    This way they have no idea they are there in England in the first place,

    No, it's because they won't be getting a tourist visa in the first place.
    The authorities don't search for overstayers, only if they are caught working or doing something else they can be deported, and that's the same for people entering illegally and the ones overstaying their visa.
    And there is a simple way to become non-deportable: no passport. No ID, no way to be sure what country are they coming from, so no country to be deported to.


  • Options
    #467
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭nc6000


    Sky News are saying the police have been given a further 24 hours to question the driver.


  • Options
    #468
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,736 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    My guess is that curtain siders have more than the one way to access the cargo, plastic and steel curtain buckles can easily enough be opened to gain access, likewise the front and rear curtain tensioners can easily be loosened to gain access

    Not so with a fridge or box van that has only the rear barn type/roller shutter doors, secure them, and you (in theory) have secured access.



    Curtain-Siders

    Curtain_siders.jpgFixed-Length Seals and TIR Cords

    Curtain sided trailers are best secured using a TIR cord to pass through each of the buckles along the trailer, looping around so that TIR fasteners can be secured at the back of the vehicle using a plastic indicative fixed-length seal. This ensures that the only way to access any side of the trailer is by way of breaking the seal, providing the audit trail required.


  • Options
    #469
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    My guess is that curtain siders have more than the one way to access the cargo, plastic and steel curtain buckles can easily enough be opened to gain access, likewise the front and rear curtain tensioners can easily be loosened to gain access

    Not so with a fridge or box van that has only the rear barn type/roller shutter doors, secure them, and you (in theory) have secured access.

    Why would there be an EU law requiring a container to be sealed but not a curtain sider?

    Any what would it apply on Dublin Holyhead direct but not if you go via Belfast / Scotland?


  • Options
    #470
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    If he drove all the way down from the North, to Dublin to Holyhead all the way down through UK to Kent to move a trailer a few mile then he's either very stupid or very involved.
    There was plenty of trucks in Kent to move it. His movements are vital, but didn't they already say he came from Dublin to Holyhead. Yes they thought he had trailer with him, but he didn't, seemed it was just him and the truck. Very odd.
    No one has that info yet.
    yes, it would be insane to travel dub-holy down through England on a Saturday to wait for a trailer coming in Tuesday morning. No haulier would do that.



    From that, I assume he exited Ireland with a load and was working in England up to and including Tuesday.
    If so, that would definitely help with him being innocent but it doesn't completely mean he is.


  • Options
    #471
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,465 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    easypazz wrote: »
    Why would there be an EU law requiring a container to be sealed but not a curtain sider?

    Any what would it apply on Dublin Holyhead direct but not if you go via Belfast / Scotland?

    read the post directly above yours. curtain siders are sealed.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #472
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Allinall wrote: »
    Curtain-Siders

    Curtain_siders.jpgFixed-Length Seals and TIR Cords

    Curtain sided trailers are best secured using a TIR cord to pass through each of the buckles along the trailer, looping around so that TIR fasteners can be secured at the back of the vehicle using a plastic indicative fixed-length seal. This ensures that the only way to access any side of the trailer is by way of breaking the seal, providing the audit trail required.


    TIR Cord is not dissimilar to everyday washing line, piece of cord (thin wire rope) covered in plastic/rubber good pair of pliers will easily go through it, and a breakage wouldn't be as easily spotted as a broken seal on the back doors.

    I'm not disputing the rules/regulations surrounding cargo security, I know nothing about it, I'm simply saying that it would be a hell of a lot easier to gain access to the inside of a curtain sider than a fridge or a box van, and would have a much higher chance of going unnoticed for a while


  • Options
    #473
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Person on the news today talking about the sophistication of these traffickers. They can take the doors of their hinges and load the people even while the driver is asleep in the cab.
    Nightmare for hauliers and drivers tbh.
    Same for sailors who have to make the awful choice if they come across migrants at sea in trouble...if they help as instinct insists, they run a high risk of being done as traffickers.


  • Options
    #474
    easypazz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    To clear the matter up can somebody post a link to the relevant EU law as claimed by a poster earlier.

    It currently EU law for container traveling by sea to be sealed


  • Options
    #475
    Sittingpretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    No one has that info yet.
    yes, it would be insane to travel dub-holy down through England on a Saturday to wait for a trailer coming in Tuesday morning. No haulier would do that.



    From that, I assume he exited Ireland with a load and was working in England up to and including Tuesday.
    If so, that would definitely help with him being innocent but it doesn't completely mean he is.

    I’m pretty certain that I read that the tractor into travelled from Dub-Holyhead without a load which is not very cost effective for any haulier and certainly wouldn’t be all that common. It’s normally a load over and a backload coming home :)

    It’s all very very odd.

    Absolutely horrific for the immigrants and also for the driver if he is found to be innocent.


  • Options
    #476
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,772 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    easypazz wrote: »
    You said containers between Dublin and Holyhead are sealed under EU law.

    But you agree curtain siders are not sealed on the same route.

    You also seem to accept there are no seals under EU on containers going from Dublin to London via Belfast / Scotland.

    Have you a link to the EU law in question please so we can clear this up.

    Or can you explain why curtain siders don't need to be sealed but containers do?



    Under international law, all shipping containers moved internationally must be sealed by an ISO17712 and CT-PAT approved security barrier , I'm not going looking up pages and pages of EU law for you ,


    This load was internationally shipped Belgium to England,


    I know they check every continuer brought back to Dublin port for international shipping for a seal and if there is no seal they will pout one on it , Obviously there is human error where one is missed,


  • Options
    #477
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    The thoughts of it sends a shiver down my spine.
    The poor drivers blood must have run cold when he made the discovery.
    It's a cold world we live in.


  • Options
    #478
    Sittingpretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    The thoughts of it sends a shiver down my spine.
    The poor drivers blood must have run cold when he made the discovery.
    It's a cold world we live in.

    Exactly, if he was completely innocent he will never ever get over that.


  • Options
    #479
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Person on the news today talking about the sophistication of these traffickers. They can take the doors of their hinges and load the people even while the driver is asleep in the cab.
    Nightmare for hauliers and drivers tbh.

    It would not cost a lot to install a camera in the container which the driver can see from his dashboard. It would surely cut a lot of this stuff out.


  • Options
    #480
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It would not cost a lot to install a camera in the container which the driver can see from his dashboard. It would surely cut a lot of this stuff out.
    Not sure how viable that would be.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #481
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,852 ✭✭✭Odelay


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It would not cost a lot to install a camera in the container which the driver can see from his dashboard. It would surely cut a lot of this stuff out.

    How is he ment to be watching it while asleep? And once in if the sit down he won’t see them past the load.


Advertisement