39 people found dead in trailer in UK

Odelay

armaghlad wrote: »

From what I can gather he didn’t phone the police. The ambulance crew phoned the police. That’s what raises my suspicions slightly. Surely when calling emergency services he’d have called for both?

With a truck load of unconscious people, it is likely the emergency caller kept him on the line asking details and asking him to check for signs of life or any other possibility’s.

contrary_devil

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Yes its European law
For instance in Dublin port if a container is brought back to ship without a seal they will put one on at the gate as it enters ,(even if its empty)

Could you reference the applicable "European Law" please?


It's been a while since I did containers so your seal scenario could have been introduced since then. :rolleyes:

contrary_devil

buttercups88 wrote: »

Sky saying he opened the door to get paperwork and found the bodies....


I dont know a whole lot about the industry but why would paperwork be inside a sealed container

The driver that loaded it would have put it there for the driver that was picking it up, it's very often done to ensure it's security.

BTW it was not a container.

skallywag

sdanseo wrote: »

This was a trailer, not a container, and looks entirely different.

Oh, my bad then. I thought it was a container

sdanseo

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Yes its European law
For instance in Dublin port if a container is brought back to ship without a seal they will put one on at the gate as it enters ,(even if its empty)

Individual shipping lines, hauliers, ports etc. may have their own policies and procedures to protect their customers from theft and fraud.

There is no European Law or Convention requiring the use of seals on intra-community transport unless goods are on board which are travelling under customs control.

See here: https://www.jus.uio.no/lm/un.cmr.road.carriage.contract.convention.1956.amended.protocol.1978/portrait.pdf (pro tip: Ctrl+F for the word "seal").

McMurphy

skallywag wrote: »

Oh, my bad then. I thought it was a container

Container.



They're generally moved using a container carrier..



Fridge unit.



They have their own axles/abs system etc.

mariaalice

Is it possible that the driven has nothing to do with this and not realise what was in the unit?

IRE60

Whilst its a terrible topic... the insight, for poor mortals like me, given by those in the haulage business has given this thread an extra dimension not greaned from mainstream media.

Many thanks.

contrary_devil

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

My guess is that curtain siders have more than the one way to access the cargo, plastic and steel curtain buckles can easily enough be opened to gain access, likewise the front and rear curtain tensioners can easily be loosened to gain access

Not so with a fridge or box van that has only the rear barn type/roller shutter doors, secure them, and you (in theory) have secured access.

Curtainsiders can be sealed if they are specced correctly upon purchase.

McMurphy

contrary_devil wrote: »

Curtainsiders can be sealed if they are specced correctly upon purchase.

Absolutely they can, but they're undeniably easier to gain access to than a boxvan/container or fridge, TIR cord/slats etc aside, theres a very good reason high value/ high security loads tend to go by other more secure units.

sdanseo

contrary_devil wrote: »

Curtainsiders can be sealed if they are specced correctly upon purchase.

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Absolutely they can, but they're undeniably easier to gain access to than a boxvan/container or fridge.

Both statements correct. You'll never see high value goods like Pharmaceuticals being transported in a curtainsider but they can be sealed, for example with a TIR Cord. https://www.nationwide-trailer-parts.co.uk/collections/tir-cables-fittings1

If a thief wants immediate access they can just slash the curtain - but it'll be immediately obvious as well.

paul71

mariaalice wrote: »

Is it possible that the driven has nothing to do with this and not realise what was in the unit?

I would say not only possible, it is in fact highly probable he knew nothing. At the moment other than the 39 dead and their families, I would feel he is the most traumatised person involved in this. I cannot imagine going about my days work and the shock of opening a door to that sight.

contrary_devil

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Under international law, all shipping containers moved internationally must be sealed by an ISO17712 and CT-PAT approved security barrier , I'm not going looking up pages and pages of EU law for you ,


This load was internationally shipped Belgium to England,


I know they check every continuer brought back to Dublin port for international shipping for a seal and if there is no seal they will pout one on it , Obviously there is human error where one is missed,

You claim to have some knowledge of the transport industry and are suggesting there's a european law on the sealing of containers but yet can't give any indication of it.

You also keep referencing containers, if you knew anything of transport you wouldn't do so as there was no container involved in this tragic situation.

Some bit of a Walter Mitty in you I think.

prunudo

It's likely they are holding him as long as possible to question him and hoping he spills the beans on the backgrounds of the crowd he works for or the owners of the trailers.

paul71

prunudo wrote: »

It's likely they are holding him as long as possible to question him and hoping he spills the beans on the backgrounds of the crowd he works for or the owners of the trailers.

Spill what beans? The most likely scenario is that all the owners, shippers, drivers, leasers, renters and companies involved are completely innocent and that the trailer was picked at random and broken into overnight while parked somewhere in France or Belgium.

Bazzy

armaghlad wrote: »

From what I can gather he didn’t phone the police. The ambulance crew phoned the police. That’s what raises my suspicions slightly. Surely when calling emergency services he’d have called for both?

It's impossible to say what you'd do if you opened the doors and we're met with that scene

celt262

sdanseo wrote: »

It's entirely possible, and probably, that he was out of hours for the day. Generally speaking a driver can work for 15 hours maximum with 9 hours of driving included per day. The 15 hours is known as his spread, or card.

When the card is up, you stop. Doesn't matter where, especially in the UK where VOSA (vehicle operators enforcement) are like a modern Gestapo. They will fine hauliers hundreds of pounds with on the spot visa machines for being just a few minutes over.

As such drivers will park on hard shoulders, laybys, residential streets, and certainly quiet industrial estates to take their 11 hours required rest.

If a driver thinks something is up they will check the load because they would be responsible if they didn't. God forbid a body could have moved or fallen and made a noise, that would be enough. Some drivers can be very laxidasical but I've met many who are absolute perfectionists and if they could open a trailer and strap something down to secure it (in the absence of a seal), they would.

International journeys not involving customs and within the EU are carried under CMR conditions and are not always sealed - and there is no legal requirement to seal them unless travelling under bond. Is it good practice but not universally followed by any means. It is now quite apparent the journey did not originate in Bulgaria which makes the probability of goods under bond much lower - and a seal much less likely to have been required.



The above is a very typical description of a driver's day. You are forgetting he took a load from Ireland to UK. He may not have had an immediate reload, and hung around to collect this trailer.

Where did u see he took a load from Ireland to UK? I have only heard reports that he didnt pull anything across to UK.

contrary_devil

IRE60 wrote: »

Whilst its a terrible topic... the insight, for poor mortals like me, given by those in the haulage business has given this thread an extra dimension not greaned from mainstream media.

Many thanks.

Thank you for that, I'm glad to see that you appreciate the input.
I do apologise if some of my own posts seem a bit narky but there are people on here that post to give the impression that they know the business and they do succeed when they are believed by the general public but anyone that is involved soon sees through the nonsense.

weldoninhio

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Container.



They're generally moved using a container carrier..



Fridge unit.



They have their own axles/abs system etc.

That’s not a reefer, it’s a standard trailer. No refrigeration unit on it.

prunudo

prunudo wrote: »

It's likely they are holding him as long as possible to question him and hoping he spills the beans on the backgrounds of the crowd he works for or the owners of the trailers.

So he's "guilty" in your eyes- right.:rolleyes:

Channel 4 news mentioned tonight highly probably that victims were deceased before they even got to the terminal in Belgium- and that the company who owns the trailer still haven't been contacted by police to obtain the GPS data.

prunudo

paul71 wrote: »

Spill what beans? The most likely scenario is that all the owners, shippers, drivers, leasers, renters and companies involved are completely innocent and that the trailer was picked at random and broken into overnight while parked somewhere in France or Belgium.

I agree, I'm just looking at it from a policing/investigation angle. Keeping him in custody as long as possible to get answers they need or think he could provide.

Bazzy

So lets play out two sceanrios

A he's involved and knows what is going on.

There would be a very long evidence trail phone calls text message etc. Assuming he's getting paid in cash for it he would have to launder that money somewhere. The Smugglers or traffickers would need to be in cahoots with

Trailer Hire Company or company who hired it
Truck Driver who collected load at original depot on mainland europe
Truck Company
Truck Driver


If hes not involved which I firmly believe is the case

He was instructed to leave for the UK without a load
There is a ferry from Belfast to Scotland BUT depending on the location of where he was going over the next few days it may have made more sense economically and time wise to travel from Dublin

He goes about his work. The trailer would have been scanned in as arrived at purfleet he was waiting on it knowing where it would land and is close by drives in and collects it. Gets a call from the office or previous driver and is told the paperwork is in the back or hears noise from the poor misfortunes moving around the back and goes to check.

The system is flawed if this can happen regardless of who is involved but I think the "system" is looking to find a bad man to blame and this guy is it.

I know a few hauliers and most of the island of ireland lads keep doing it for the love of the job not for the money the rates are very low I think the ordinary joe would be shocked on what they get paid for such a responsibility

paul71

prunudo wrote: »

I agree, I'm just looking at it from a policing/investigation angle. Keeping him in custody as long as possible to get answers they need or think he could provide.

Yes, I do understand that aspect there are after 39 dead they do have a duty to investigate, but somehow I suspect at this stage they may already have established he is innocent. There could be an element of compassion involved and they might be shielding him.

McMurphy

weldoninhio wrote: »

That’s not a reefer, it’s a standard trailer. No refrigeration unit on it.

Really? What makes you say that?

Bazzy

Bazzy wrote: »

It's impossible to say what you'd do if you opened the doors and we're met with that scene

Some reports say that he passed out while making the first emergency call.

weldoninhio

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Really? What makes you say that?

Reefer ones normally have “S.KO cool system” or something along those lines on the top corner near the cab.

contrary_devil

weldoninhio wrote: »

Reefer ones normally have “S.KO cool system” or something along those lines on the top corner near the cab.

Intelligent people "normally" don't comment on something about which they know little or nothing as quite obviously you don't.

B.A._Baracus

Question if it's ok to ask. How was this guy stopped?

Was it a random check or did the police get a phone call to check so and so

sdanseo

Bazzy wrote: »

So lets play out two sceanrios

A he's involved and knows what is going on.

There would be a very long evidence trail phone calls text message etc. Assuming he's getting paid in cash for it he would have to launder that money somewhere. The Smugglers or traffickers would need to be in cahoots with

Trailer Hire Company or company who hired it
Truck Driver who collected load at original depot on mainland europe
Truck Company
Truck Driver


If hes not involved which I firmly believe is the case

He was instructed to leave for the UK without a load
There is a ferry from Belfast to Scotland BUT depending on the location of where he was going over the next few days it may have made more sense economically and time wise to travel from Dublin

He goes about his work. The trailer would have been scanned in as arrived at purfleet he was waiting on it knowing where it would land and is close by drives in and collects it. Gets a call from the office or previous driver and is told the paperwork is in the back or hears noise from the poor misfortunes moving around the back and goes to check.

The system is flawed if this can happen regardless of who is involved but I think the "system" is looking to find a bad man to blame and this guy is it.

I know a few hauliers and most of the island of ireland lads keep doing it for the love of the job not for the money the rates are very low I think the ordinary joe would be shocked on what they get paid for such a responsibility

Or, he dropped a load including the trailer (again common) and picked up a trailer which we now know to be Irish owned and probably operated by another Irish haulier.

Again, all the narrative is normal.

PostWoke

Do we know any more apart from 'Chinese' at the moment? Really hope they weren't Uighur, fleeing Chinese camps only to die like this anyway...