39 people found dead in trailer in UK

Gynoid

the_pen_turner wrote: »

not sure how any of what i said is in apropriate or disrespectfull in any way.

i am in no way calous.

i have said that the people responsible are sick horrible people.
these comments came about from me thinking that the drivers isnt part of th gang and his actions back that up as far as i can see.

I don't think you were being callous either, I think people self-righteously gang up on someone sometimes who is merely thinking outside the box. You are just expressing an opinion on the drivers actions - by calling for help, it does indeed suggest he was not in on a smuggling ring. Suggest, but not definite of course.

The corollary of refusing to believe that wicked trafficking gangs could not somehow get rid of many bodies (even though it would be a hard task, I think it is possible) is to believe that of the several hundred thousand of people trafficked into Europe EVERY YEAR who are not found by the authorities, all of them make it safe and intact (except for a thousand or so per annum in the sea) but that ALL of those who do not make it, that is those who die so horrifically as in this case, ARE found by the authorities. Which frankly is a bit of a stretch for me to believe.

downcow

A number of Vietnamese families have reportedly contacted BBC NI to express concerns that they believe their family members may be the victims. If thats the case it would suggest the tragic lorry was NI bound

Quantum Erasure

fourth person arrested, he is from Northern Ireland, Driver still being held. as of press conference just now

Calypso Realm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

fourth person arrested, he is from Northern Ireland, Driver still being held. as of press conference just now

Yes, a 48-year-old arrested at Stanstead on same charges as other two.

funkey_monkey

downcow wrote: »

A number of Vietnamese families have reportedly contacted BBC NI to express concerns that they believe their family members may be the victims. If thats the case it would suggest the tragic lorry was NI bound

Why would it suggest NI bound?

KM792

Truck driver due to appear in court tomorrow..

downcow

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Why would it suggest NI bound?

i havent followed this closely, but if they are family members of people living in NI it would seem fairly logical that their final intended destination was NI. Or am i missing something?

FrancieBrady

The picture on social media brings home the very human side and reality of this. May whoever closed the door on that trailer or had any involvement suffer for a long time.

Calypso Realm

KM792 wrote: »

Truck driver due to appear in court tomorrow..

Where did you hear this? Not mentioned by Essex Police in conference a while ago.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The picture on social media brings home the very human side and reality of this. May whoever closed the door on that trailer or had any involvement suffer for a long time.

Agreed. They'll still get the benefit of being incarcerated in a FIRST WORLD judicial system though. A system more tolerable than where the victims originated

partyguinness

While we do not have the full story, the victims are unlikely to be the 'poorest of the poor'. The poorest of the poor are simply too poor to be able to afford to buy their way out.

You have to raise significant cash to pay for this- you can only do that if you have capital and family to help. Likely to be from lower middle class/upper working class families. Sure, 'poor' by our standards but not necessarily in Vietnam or China etc.

The figure being thrown around is £30k. Let's put it this way, how many of us here could rustle up £30k.

4068ac1elhodqr

Wan on the BBC said some of the Vietnamese would pay upto 30k each to get trafficked half-way across the world, with a view to earn even more in the long term (in the black market), and then send it back on WesternUnion.
Many also take out shady loans and even sell off the families farmland to pay the gangmasters for this future investment "gamble".

I like a (small) gamble now and again, and might even do the euromillions tonight, but these type of huge fiscal (and human) 'risk vs reward' scenarios are plain stupid.

partyguinness

Esperanza Whispering Receiver wrote: »

I like a (small) gamble now and again, and might even do the euromillions tonight, but these type of huge fiscal (and human) 'risk vs reward' scenarios are plain stupid.

No they are not. It is an extremely lucrative market and compared to the amount of people being smuggled/trafficked the odd deal going tits up is worth the risk.

Like drug smuggling. It's worth the risk of the odd seizure or two by customs if 50 others are getting through.

Risk is well worth it.

mikhail

partyguinness wrote: »

The figure being thrown around is £30k. Let's put it this way, how many of us here could rustle up £30k.

That may be the life savings and more of an extended family. I've heard of people in parts of Asia remortgaging their home to send a kid to get a masters in the west. So maybe not poor before, but quite possibly close to destitute now.

KM792

Calypso Realm wrote: »

Where did you hear this? Not mentioned by Essex Police in conference a while ago.

It was in the latest article by Mail Online.Released just before the press conference.

Tacitus Kilgore

KM792 wrote: »

It was in the latest article by Mail Online.Released just before the press conference.

Probably just another example of a rag not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.

funkey_monkey

downcow wrote: »

i havent followed this closely, but if they are family members of people living in NI it would seem fairly logical that their final intended destination was NI. Or am i missing something?

Yeah okay. Where did you read this? I've not seen it.

KM792

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Probably just another example of a rag not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.

Just checked,article has been amended...the truck drivers name appeared "by accident"..what are the chances of that.This story just gets weirder..
"
This afternoon his name appeared on a draft list for a hearing to take place at Chelmsford Magistrates' Court tomorrow followed by a case at the city's crown court on Monday. But the CPS and police insisted it was an error by court staff."

Atlantic Dawn

What I don't understand is if someone had the £30k to pay the traffickers why would they not just get a passport in China and travel to the UK or Ireland as a tourist and simply stay here? Surely with £30k means a plausable story could be easily concocted to make them look like a genuine tourist?

I fear what is at play here is these people have not actually paid anyone, they instead have been effectively sold as slaves and will work off this debt for the rest of their life.

FrancieBrady

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What I don't understand is if someone had the £30k to pay the traffickers why would they not just get a passport in China and travel to the UK or Ireland as a tourist and simply stay here? Surely with £30k means a plausable story could be easily concocted to make them look like a genuine tourist?

I fear what is at play here is these people have not actually paid anyone, they instead have been effectively sold as slaves and will work off this debt for the rest of their life.

A crack down on traffickers and those prepared to employ this kind of labour is badly needed.

There should be no excuses like 'I didn't know their status', for the employers.

4068ac1elhodqr

partyguinness wrote: »

No they are not. It is an extremely lucrative market and compared to the amount of people being smuggled/trafficked the odd deal going tits up is worth the risk.
It's worth the risk of the odd seizure or two by customs if 50 others are getting through.
Risk is well worth it.

Lucrative for the gang masters, not for the subjects. Which is the point I was making. It's a stupid gamble for them (the subjects) to take, deciding to sell off their own farmlands or borrowing 30k which may take a decade to pay-off before they will see any fiscal gains to wire back home.

It's only 1 out of every 3-400 containers that are checked, someone from their ports said on the news earlier. Zeb (one of many ports) sends 3,000pday into the Uk. Likely 60 everyday don't get a full x-ray and physical full cargo inspection, maybe a dozen.

FrancieBrady

4th man arrested at Stansted Airport...doing a runner?

pinkyeye

Infini wrote: »

It's sad indeed of course that it happened but at the same time I do feel it's a little hard to have alot of sympathy either. They're throwing their lives away to enter a country that doesnt want them to be honest. Not only that but because they tried to enter illegally they ended up losing their lives for nothing. Of course the real lowlifes are those who traffic them illegally but at the same time how did they get in there to begin with, because I've heard of stories in the past of people like this breaking into trucks to stow away only to get trapped in the container with noone knowing until they're already dead.

It's hard to have sympathy for people who died a horrible death. You need to look at yourself.

1641

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What I don't understand is if someone had the £30k to pay the traffickers why would they not just get a passport in China and travel to the UK or Ireland as a tourist and simply stay here? Surely with £30k means a plausable story could be easily concocted to make them look like a genuine tourist?

I fear what is at play here is these people have not actually paid anyone, they instead have been effectively sold as slaves and will work off this debt for the rest of their life.

An article I read on the "business" indicated that the family often finance this by a loan/debt to the smugglers. Presumably to be repaid from the transported son/daughter's earnings.

In some cases the people transported to what they think are good jobs will actually be kept in conditions of servitude/slavery by the gang until they repay the debt (possibly never).

The family left behind will always be vulnerable to the smugglers as collateral.

screamer

Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world. It’s why we have borders in the first place. As the world population increases, and life gets tougher, we’ll see a swing to strengthening borders.

Quantum Erasure

FrancieBrady wrote: »

4th man arrested at Stansted Airport...doing a runner?

I'd say most definitely. must have been a looking for him,

FrancieBrady

screamer wrote: »

Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world. It’s why we have borders in the first place. As the world population increases, and life gets tougher, we’ll see a swing to strengthening borders.

Nobody asked us did we want to 'take these people in'.
This was a criminal operation. And like most criminal operations, innocent people are the victims.

coastwatch

paul71 wrote: »

You are jumping to same type of assumptions about the trailer owners that UK media did about the driver when they plastered his personal details all over the news.
More likely, perfectly legitimate company in Ireland registers assets in another EU country because the registration process and insurance is cheaper. Said trailer while hired out to a legitimate transport company is broken into somewhere in Holland by 40 people while the driver on an overnight is asleep, 40th person seals other 39 in and tragedy occurs.

I wasn't making any assumptions (or casting aspersions) about the trailer or truck owners, just pointing out the Irish/NI connections and location, not a million miles away from where gangs involved in smuggling rackets have operated for many years. Probably not as much money to be made in cigarettes and diesel anymore.

1641

screamer wrote: »

Whilst I am sorry that these people died, we can’t take in the whole world.

I don't really see any suggestion that we should take the whole world. We can have sympathy with these people though. It is the smugglers that need to tackled ferociously. I am sure that is very hard to do. All (most) containers are not checked even in countries that enforce their own borders, eg, the US.


As someone said on RTE news, not one person has ever being charged in Ireland with trafficking.

Infini

KM792 wrote: »

It was in the latest article by Mail Online.Released just before the press conference.

Daily Fail is the biggest rag in Britain I'd be EXTREMELY sceptical of anything and everything from that bogroll of a publication.