39 people found dead in trailer in UK

downcow

lola85 wrote: »

He’s British and he’s from the United Kingdom.

That’s what one of his passports will say.

Unlike you I don't know what passport/s he owns.

FrancieBrady

lola85 wrote: »

Well that’s not true especially when it comes to claiming sports people from the North.

And unionists certainly don’t claim to be Irish.

Not should they have too, they are British and have every right to claim so.

Quite a few Unionists (including Paisley, Trimble etc) have called themselves Irish.
'Irish', who identify as British.

No amount of party games will make this island anything other than 'Ireland'. He had it across the front of the truck.

lola85

Anyway let’s move on.

tayto lover

volchitsa wrote: »

Is he? I'm not sure of that. Other names being associated with this thing (Ronan Hughes was mentioned) make me think he may not be. But I really don't know.

If there’s money involved they will clam whichever nationality suits them.
It’s a border thing. Never stopped people claiming dole on both sides if possible.

McMurphy

downcow wrote: »

you are making a few too many sectarian assumptions. Just becuase someones parents are protestant and unionist and they have lots of friends in the unionist family doesn't mean them and all rheir decendants are British. I thought the GFA gave us the right to choose. If this guy travels under an Irish passport then i don't think you can condemn media for referring to him as Irish. Its not long since posters on here were telling me everyone born on the island is Irish.
Watch who is arrested as this progresses of the next days and which community they are connected to.

A lot of the usual - those brits are at it again, on here

Is it really important "what foot he kicks with"?

The fact is, to a British citizen, he will be viewed upon as speaking with an Irish accent, and coming from an Irish town 'across the water' ie they'll view him as Irish, just the same as they ultimately view Nigel Dodds and Sammy Wilson as Irish.

That being said, his religion or nationality is entirely irrelevant.

hurler32

1641 wrote: »

Well, you obviously are not an Irish republican then - "union of all Irishmen,Catholic,Protestant and Dissenter"? Green, White and Orange? Four Green Fields?



Noone in Britain says people from NI are not Irish. Same as people from Scotland are Scottish.


Anyway, why don't you start a list of people you want declared British ? I'll start you off - Rory Best, Rory McElroy, Liam Neeson, Martin McGuinness , etc, etc

If he had a republican flute band on his Facebook , RTÉ and the Irish Indrpendent would have had an orgasm in their rush to vilify Sinn Fein etc .
But when it’s a loyalist flute band we are on about all island , all the one etc . Then again many in Fine Gael - South Dublin are more unionist than nationalist if the truth be told .

FrancieBrady

hurler32 wrote: »

If he had a republican flute band on his Facebook , RTÉ and the Irish Indrpendent would have had an orgasm in their rush to vilify Sinn Fein etc .
But when it’s a loyalist we are on about all island , all the one etc . Then again many in Fine Gael - South Dublin are more unionist than nationalist if the truth be told .

It doesn't matter if he is Irish, English, British or Outer Mongolian. It doesn't matter whether he is Gerry Adams, Nigel Dodds or Leo Varadkar or Boris Johnson.

If he was involved in this then he deserves what is coming to him.

volchitsa

hurler32 wrote: »

If he had a republican flute band on his Facebook , RTÉ and the Irish Indrpendent would have had an orgasm in their rush to vilify Sinn Fein etc .
But when it’s a loyalist we are on about all island , all the one etc . Then again many in Fine Gael - South Dublin are more unionist than nationalist if the truth be told .

Well, maybe. Or maybe it's just not entirely clear yet.

We're clearly dealing with organised crime here, which in Ireland and definitely Northern Ireland, means paramilitaries in some connection or other. If it turns out to be loyalist paramilitaries and not a republican supporter in sight, to be quite honest I will probably be relieved. Not that consider myself a SF supporter, never mind the IRA, but I guess the old tribalism is not that easy to rid oneself of, and I accept that it's still ingrained in me.

In the meantime though, I would wait before accusing any group - that's all speculation for now. Like I said, either or both sides could be involved.

iamwhoiam

One point I find hard to fathom . If the victims of this tragedy had to borrow large sums of money ($14k has been mentioned ) how did they think they would pay it back plus support a family back home at the same time ? What job would allow them to pay it back and also make more to support themselves and a large family .

splinter65

iamwhoiam wrote: »

One point I find hard to fathom . If the victims of this tragedy had to borrow large sums of money ($14k has been mentioned ) how did they think they would pay it back plus support a family back home at the same time ? What job would allow them to pay it back and also make more to support themselves and a large family .

This has been explained over and over in this thread.

downcow

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Is it really important "what foot he kicks with"?

The fact is, to a British citizen, he will be viewed upon as speaking with an Irish accent, and coming from an Irish town 'across the water' ie they'll view him as Irish, just the same as they ultimately view Nigel Dodds and Sammy Wilson as Irish.

That being said, his religion or nationality is entirely irrelevant.

Agreed. Only possible relevance is if this whole affair lands at the feet of an organised paramilitary group/gang. I will be surprised if it doesn’t and I will also be surprised if it is any of the loyalist paramilitaries. But it will all come out in the wash (maybe). Bottom line is it is a tragedy and I am sure the families neither know or care if Ireland’s hero’s are pulling the strings.

iamwhoiam

splinter65 wrote: »

This has been explained over and over in this thread.

Thanks for the polite reply , I havent read all the 67 pages of thread its quite long .

humberklog

iamwhoiam wrote: »

One point I find hard to fathom . If the victims of this tragedy had to borrow large sums of money ($14k has been mentioned ) how did they think they would pay it back plus support a family back home at the same time ? What job would allow them to pay it back and also make more to support themselves and a large family .

It's indentured servitude. Grow houses, agri industry, prostitution, massage, nail bars, restaurants. There's a myriad of industries people get "lost" in.

They're not jumping out of the back of the lorry and making their own way in the world.

iamwhoiam

humberklog wrote: »

It's indentured servitude. Grow houses, agri industry, prostitution, massage, nail bars, restaurants. There's a myriad of industries people get "lost" in.

They're not jumping out of the back of the lorry and making their own way in the world.

Thanks for the reply . I understand that they work in these situations but cant figure out how they thought they would earn enough to pay back a debt and support a large family even if it was a legit wage they earned .They would need to be earning huge salaries to do this

AlekSmart

humberklog wrote: »

It's indentured servitude. Grow houses, agri industry, prostitution, massage, nail bars, restaurants. There's a myriad of industries people get "lost" in.

They're not jumping out of the back of the lorry and making their own way in the world.

Regular watchers of the BBC's "Countryfile" will often see examples of labour intensive UK farming using large numbers of Foreign people.

In the context of the Brexit debate,many of these large Farming operations have expressed concern about where their seasonal staff would come from.....perhaps this sad situation nods in that direction ?

1641

The troubles created a corridor of lawlessness around many border areas. Many footsoldiers involved on both sides were more thugs than ideologues. There were lots of arms about. With the end of the Troubles many of these drifted into criminality. Such gangs may be "equal opportunities employers".

I would be surprised if there was a direct paramilitary link (as opposed to a paramilitary background). Time will tell.

funkey_monkey

splinter65 wrote: »

His other passport says he’s an Irish citizen.

The Emma deSouza case says he's British. In fact everyone from NI are British regardless of the GFA according to that ruling.

afkasurfjunkie

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

How come the driver was named and identified by social media so quickly but the couple from the midlands can’t be named for legal reasons?

They were named.

1641

Deleted User wrote: »

They were named.

As was Eamonn Harrison :


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/man-23-in-court-following-arrest-at-dublin-port-1.4064018

Galwayguy35

Seems a bit odd that he would have stopped to check the load after driving for half an hour or so and not done it at the port before he set off, also read that it was at or near a junction he stopped so that would have been a strange place to pull up.

There is a war of words going on over on his IG account between people who want to see him hung for this and those who blindly support him.

Calypso Realm

1641 wrote: »

Anyway, they seem to have other evidence, given the multiple charges. Not looking good.

Indeed.

Actually I'm interested to know how Mo R pleads at Magistrates Court tomorrow.

Damien360

Calypso Realm wrote: »

Indeed.

Actually I'm interested to know how Mo R pleads at Magistrates Court tomorrow.

If his solicitor has any brains then it’s not guilty.

armaghlad

zurbfoundation wrote: »

Obviously provos have a new revenue stream since the shinners cant be seen to be knocking off banks anymore

Aye Mo Robinson is your stereotypical provo, friends with Willie Fraser on Facebook and holding an NI flag

FrancieBrady

Damien360 wrote: »

If his solicitor has any brains then it’s not guilty.

The 'money laundering' charge would be the key one for me. He was obviously either found with unaccounted for cash, it was found in his house or his banking records are showing something.

anewme

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Seems a bit odd that he would have stopped to check the load after driving for half an hour or so and not done it at the port before he set off, also read that it was at or near a junction he stopped so that would have been a strange place to pull up.

There is a war of words going on over on his IG account between people who want to see him hung for this and those who blindly support him.

I've just read the IG account and it is very clear that it's one side or the other.

I had originally thought he was innocent, but now I am very unsure. The lure of easy money is too much for some and personal integrity gets compromised.

One person has raised a valid point.

The people who decided for whatever reason (and their families who raised the money) for them to undertake this "journey" have also contributed to what happened. They must have been aware how risky it was, as well as illegal. You can say maybe desperate people will try desperate measures for a better life.

The big players in this should go down for a long time. Getting rich on the back of other peoples misery.

Galwayguy35

anewme wrote: »

I've just read the IG account and it is very clear that it's one side or the other.

I had originally thought he was innocent, but now I am very unsure. The lure of easy money is too much for some and personal integrity gets compromised.

One person has raised a valid point.

The people who decided for whatever reason (and their families who raised the money) for them to undertake this "journey" have also contributed to what happened. They must have been aware how risky it was, as well as illegal. You can say maybe desperate people will try desperate measures for a better life.

The big players in this should go down for a long time. Getting rich on the back of other peoples misery.

Yeah I thought at the start as well that he was just a guy who picked up the trailer and had no clue as to what was going on but I'm beginning to think different now.

I read that post on the account about the people who raise the money for someone to make journeys like this illegally and it's a valid point.

I think they seem to think Britain is the land of milk and honey where everyone can become successful and the traffickers exploit this belief.

1641

anewme wrote: »

One person has raised a valid point.

The people who decided for whatever reason (and their families who raised the money) for them to undertake this "journey" have also contributed to what happened. They must have been aware how risky it was, as well as illegal. You can say maybe desperate people will try desperate measures for a better life.

The big players in this should go down for a long time. Getting rich on the back of other peoples misery.

I recognise that shocked associates havd a natural tendency to protect someone they know but I wouldn't go too far on this one.

Plenty ot times we have people saying others have "contributed to what happened". Sometimes there is a grain of truth in it and sometimes there is none at all, eg, when there is a gangland murder we can say that that the recreational drug user "contributes" to it - but at they same time they are not responsible. It in no mitigates the reponsibility of the killers.


If those charged, or being held for questioning, are involved in this then they deserve what is coming to them.

FrancieBrady

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah I thought at the start as well that he was just a guy who picked up the trailer and had no clue as to what was going on but I'm beginning to think different now.

I read that post on the account about the people who raise the money for someone to make journeys like this illegally and it's a valid point.

I think they seem to think Britain is the land of milk and honey where everyone can become successful and the traffickers exploit this belief.

And greedy employers. The most effective way to get the message back to the places these people are coming from is to get those who make it to send back the message that there is no work, no land of milk and honey. As long as there is work this will continue. And it will get worse (the exploitation by greedy people) if Brexit happens.

Peter File

If found guilty they will face substantially longer prison sentences in the U.K compared to soft sentences imposed here.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And greedy employers. The most effective way to get the message back to the places these people are coming from is to get those who make it to send back the message that there is no work, no land of milk and honey. As long as there is work this will continue. And it will get worse (the exploitation by greedy people) if Brexit happens.

Someone earlier referenced the BBC Country programme. Last week one apple farmer was bemoaning the lack of cheap labour leading to him having to leave apples to rot. He was too tight to pay a decent wage.
I doubt that those at the top will be brought to justice. We can only hope that it makes big news in the victim’s home countries and will act as a deterrent to others.

May they Rest In Peace.