39 people found dead in trailer in UK

_Brian

cosanostra wrote: »

Because gangsters use debt as a way of making usually decent people do things they don't want to. Not saying this is the case my point was that the main players will get off scot free and probably already have another driver lined up for the next collection

Very common amd successful tactic.

Rack up €10k in debt to a drug dealer and you would sell your soul to clear it.

ctrl-alt-delete

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm guessing date/time of death for the 39 will affect how his defence approach his trial.

As you say, if they were dead a day before he picked up the trailer, he wasn't involved in their deaths.

Will it be an easy task working out an approximate time of death given the conditions?

Calypso Realm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK?

I have wondered exactly same thing. Logically (if proven and it sounds very probable) he couldn't possibly be responsible, so how on earth could be he convicted?

Also it will be interesting to see what ensues when results of PMs are released.

Galwayguy35

Calypso Realm wrote: »

I have wondered exactly same thing. Logically (if proven and it sounds very probable) he couldn't possibly be responsible, so how on earth could be he convicted?

Also it will be interesting to see what ensues when results of PMs are released.

Maybe they would argue that he should have checked to see they were all right the minute he hooked up to the trailer instead of just driving to what seems to be the drop off point nearly an hour later.

McMurphy

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Will it be an easy task working out an approximate time of death given the conditions?

If they were frozen or died due to hypothermia, then I think some of the more modern fridges will keep logs of when the fridge was turned on, how long it was running for, and at what temp, so in theory using info like this could be relatively easy to estimate time of death.

Equally if it was suffocation due to lack of Oxygen inside a sealed airtight trailer, then they can prob estimate when they are most likely to have perished using information available ref the number of people Vs what oxygen would have been available to them.

This is why I think that in theory, the lad arrested getting off the ferry might be in deeper sh1t than Robinson is in.

riemann

Mute point in the grand scheme of things but I was surprised how cheap it was to hire a chilled container for a week

bilzo

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer
4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird

I don't personally know how beneficial or detrimental the Last point is but I have read it in a broadsheet and they described it. As potentially avoiding some attention?

the_pen_turner

where are people getting tht he drove for a hour. . he entered the industrial estate 5 minutes after leaving the dock. in the next 30 min he called the ambulance , they arived and rang the police

Masteryos

bilzo wrote: »

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer
4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird

I don't personally know how beneficial or detrimental the Last point is but I have read it in a broadsheet and they described it. As potentially avoiding some attention?

Lots of things point to him being heavily involved. I'm not sure about the travel route but considering (from what I heard on the news) that the port the trailer came in from isn't one of the bigger ports does show that they've all figured out routes to get around security from travelling with the lorry to the port that the trailer comes in from.

Going from the discussion further up the page about the manslaughter charge, I'd say the safer bet is getting sentenced for money laundering and human trafficking. Easier to put him away if they can show he was taking money for this than probably trying to get a jury to convict him over manslaughter.

Loafing Oaf

bilzo wrote: »

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)

I haven't seen which part of Ireland the Mahers are from but presumably with a name like that the husband at least must be of Catholic/nationalist 'stock'. I'd be surprised to find this sort of racket was 'cross-community' but presumably Mo, if involved at all, was just a footsoldier.

alan1963

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK?

Robinson may be caught by the ghoulies knowingly going to play his part in transporting illegal immigrants, but will they be able to hold him responsible for their deaths?

I know shag all about the law, but this will be an interesting one.

From wikipedia-
The doctrine of common purpose, common design, joint enterprise, or joint criminal enterprise is a common-law legal doctrine that imputes criminal liability to the participants in a criminal enterprise for all that results from that enterprise.

LuasSimon

Masteryos wrote: »

Lots of things point to him being heavily involved. I'm not sure about the travel route but considering (from what I heard on the news) that the port the trailer came in from isn't one of the bigger ports does show that they've all figured out routes to get around security from travelling with the lorry to the port that the trailer comes in from.

Going from the discussion further up the page about the manslaughter charge, I'd say the safer bet is getting sentenced for money laundering and human trafficking. Easier to put him away if they can show he was taking money for this than probably trying to get a jury to convict him over manslaughter.

He may not have been responsible for the poor people’s ultimate demise but the truck routes and unusual location to check cargo soon after collecting container really paint a picture not consistent with an innocent collection and delivery . Anyone involved in this human trafficking for money deserves the full rigours of the law which might also discourage others from making soft money smuggling humans .

Galwayguy35

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I haven't seen which part of Ireland the Mahers are from but presumably with a name like that the husband at least must be of Catholic/nationalist 'stock'. I'd be surprised to find this sort of racket was 'cross-community' but presumably Mo, if involved at all, was just a footsoldier.

If they found money at his house that he can't account for and it's in the thousands he would be a bit more than a footsoldier

It's claimed on his IG account they did but it might be just hearsay.

LuasSimon

Mo Robinson’s Facebook page crowing about been proud to be British and various loyalist flags pictures is been fairly doing the rounds all over Facebook this evening .
These type of people don’t want to be Irish so not sure why the likes of Irish independent call them Irish , displaced wannabe british lorry driver might be more appropriate!

coastwatch

bilzo wrote: »

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer
4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird

I don't personally know how beneficial or detrimental the Last point is but I have read it in a broadsheet and they described it. As potentially avoiding some attention?

Just by way of correction,

1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
Incorrect. Two are from NI, the other two are living in UK, originally from Co. Offaly

2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
Incorrect. Cause of death has not be established/ released

3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer.
Incorrect. Trailer was opened by at a location 10mins after it was collected from ferry.

4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird.
Incorrect. Dublin- Holyhead ferry route 3.5 hours versus 8 hours from Belfast to Liverpool, with similar road distance to Essex.

sportsfan90

Seriously can people move on from what side of political/religious divide he's from - it makes no difference whatsoever except people jumping on it for their own pointscoring purposes.

If people-trafficking like this is as common as what we're led to believe, I've no doubt there's people on both sides doing the exact same thing.

Loafing Oaf

coastwatch wrote: »

3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer.
Incorrect. Trailer was opened by at a location 10mins after it was collected from ferry..

Would this not be even more damning?

bilzo

coastwatch wrote: »

Just by way of correction,

1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
Incorrect. Two are from NI, the other two are living in UK, originally from Co. Offaly

2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
Incorrect. Cause of death has not be established/ released

3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer.
Incorrect. Trailer was opened by at a location 10mins after it was collected from ferry.

4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird.
Incorrect. Dublin- Holyhead ferry route 3.5 hours versus 8 hours from Belfast to Liverpool, with similar road distance to Essex.

1. Ok fair enough
2. Not incorrect just look at the text sent home by one of the victims. Lets not be pedantic
3. Obviously mixed stories going around, still creates more suspicion
4. Just what i had read from a truck driver , also why would anyone send a truck to england without a trailer only to pick up a trailer for a few hours in england. Makes no sense

Larsso30

The money laundering charge is significant in this for me. Points to mo robinson being aware what he was involved in imo.

Loafing Oaf

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Even 10 years for each offence means he would not get out until he's 415 years old.

Okay not literally true but is this how it works? Does 39 manslaughter convictions mean an effective 'life' sentence?

Mules

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

If they found money at his house that he can't account for and it's in the thousands he would be a bit more than a footsoldier

It's claimed on his IG account they did but it might be just hearsay.

No-one would do it for less than that. Getting caught trafficking even without any deaths would lead to a long prison sentence.

If you google “grow house court Vietnamese” it’s scary how many news reports mention that those up in court are vulnerable or have told the Gardaí that they travelled to Ireland in containers.

Gorgeousgeorge

Mules wrote: »

No-one would do it for less than that. Getting caught trafficking even without any deaths would lead to a long prison sentence.

You would think that. Look up dean hickey an Irish lad who was caught smuggling people into the uk this year. He got away with it

buttercups88

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Okay not literally true but is this how it works? Does 39 manslaughter convictions mean an effective 'life' sentence?

I think I read the driver of the truck that had 50 odd bodies back 10+ years ago was sentenced to 17 years I'll see if I can get link

ETA: sorry it was 58 people and the driver was sentenced to 14 years for manslaughter (which is disgusting) I know it's only wikipedia but all main info seems to be there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Dover_incident

anewme

buttercups88 wrote: »

I think I read the driver of the truck that had 50 odd bodies back 10+ years ago was sentenced to 17 years I'll see if I can get link

Not directly aimed at poster but at all:

Fifty - odd dead people is a serioius amount of deaths in one incident.

Sad that the person responsible is a google look up now.

We really need to be harsher on all aspects of people trafficking.

skooterblue2

anewme wrote: »

Not directly aimed at poster but at all:

Fifty - odd dead people is a serioius amount of deaths in one incident.

Sad that the person responsible is a google look up now.

We really need to be harsher on all aspects of people trafficking.

The people at the top of the slavery/people trafficking are untouchable. The Bin Laden family have always been there and always have dealing with slaves.

Mules

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

You would think that. Look up dean hickey an Irish lad who was caught smuggling people into the uk this year. He got away with it

That's pretty shocking. I never would have thought that.

Gorgeousgeorge

Mules wrote: »

That's pretty shocking. I never would have thought that.

I know absolutely madness

20Wheel

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201910271077162762-8-migrants-found-in-refrigerator-truck-heading-to-uk--report/

New case, 8, alive. Afghans. Refrigerator truck. France - UK.

Rayne Wooney

I think the murder charges were just a scare tactic, he’ll never be convicted of 39 murders, but if they found a large amount of cash he can’t say he didn’t know he was doing something wrong at the very least.

If he is deeply involved I wonder if he gave anything away initially before a solicitor told him to keep quiet, the 30 minutes before he called the police is a question mark, interesting to see if any other vehicles were seen coming and going at that hour on the cctv they had of the truck.