39 people found dead in trailer in UK

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

I live close to that grow house, and remember it well.

Apparently the set-up they had was fantastic. It had been totally custom built in a large warehouse (which I have been in on a few occasions). They were totally self sufficient, had months worth of food in stock, all washing facilities, entertainment services etc set up. Big job.

Makes you wonder just how many similar houses there are over Ireland and the UK.

A good few year back a very large shed not too far from me was raided too. I heard it was the Esb that alerted the guards due to the volumes of electricity being used. When raided they found people Chinese or similar origin there.

Was also at the brother in laws back in 2010 when the big freeze was on. He lives in a very rural spot. As we drove there all the houses we past, the roofs were white from the cold. Except for one old unused farmhouse. It was raided within days and a guy with Chinese or similar origin arrested.

easypazz

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The husband and wife arrested have been released without charge, as too has the guy arrested in Stansted airport, though the three of them are on bail.

Not so for Mo Robinson, he's in court in the morning, and I'm beginning to wonder just how much into the thick of things Mo is buried.

Its up to him to sing and bring down those above him. They have to throw the book at him, put other lorry drivers off doing it.

cosanostra

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

How could he be a victim himself? Just because he didn't organise it?

Because gangsters use debt as a way of making usually decent people do things they don't want to. Not saying this is the case my point was that the main players will get off scot free and probably already have another driver lined up for the next collection

MadYaker

From here: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/1027/1085939-essex-deaths/

The mother and a sister of 19-year-old Bui Thi Nhung set up an altar in the village of Yen Thanh in north-central Vietnam after a family friend in the UK told them she had died after paying thousands of pounds in the hope of finding work in a nail bar.

This seems so bizarre and such a needless loss of life. How were these people talked into this? They obviously had money so why go to smugglers???

easypazz

easypazz wrote: »

Its up to him to sing and bring down those above him. They have to throw the book at him, put other lorry drivers off doing it.

If he does “sing” you can guarantee that he won’t last long. He’s caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

cosanostra

MadYaker wrote: »

From here: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/1027/1085939-essex-deaths/




This seems so bizarre and such a needless loss of life. How were these people talked into this? They obviously had money so why go to smugglers???

When you look into it some of it was savings from wide family circle but most of it was loans, who do you think provided the loan, the same people who will force the girl to work in prostitution etc til its paid off (never)

MadYaker

Yeah he's in a right spot he is. I've zero sympathy for him.

LuasSimon

MadYaker wrote: »

Yeah he's in a right spot he is. I've zero sympathy for him.

Did I read somewhere he’s 25 and lives in a 300K house ??

1641

MadYaker wrote: »

From here: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/1027/1085939-essex-deaths/

This seems so bizarre and such a needless loss of life. How were these people talked into this? They obviously had money so why go to smugglers???

In the same article :


"Her father, Pham Van Thin, told Sky News: "We tried to talk her out of it because it would be a very difficult journey for her as a girl.
"But she said: 'If I don't go, the family would stay in a very difficult situation because of the big debt'.
"So she took a risk and decided to go, and we had to agree."

It is reported elsewhere that they are told by the gangs that they can make huge money working in nail bars. But the reality is a pittance and they are forced into other ways by the gangs to pay off the debts, eg, prostitution. People trafficking is often part of the modern slavery business.

Galwayguy35

If he was part of a convoy of 3 trucks then they will be probably looking for him to spill the beans on who the others are and where they went.

No Bills

LuasSimon wrote: »

Did I read somewhere he’s 25 and lives in a 300K house ??

I believe this £160,000 house is his:
www.cps-property.com/drumlack-gate-lodge

McMurphy

No Bills wrote: »

I believe this £160,000 house is his:
www.cps-property.com/drumlack-gate-lodge

Why do you think it's his?

MadYaker

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Why do you think it's his?

Because they're spending too much time reading tabloids and social media.

gerbilgranny

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Why do you think it's his?

I'm guessing because one of the photos looks identical to ones we've seen on T.V.

And also...https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-raid-luxury-northern-ireland-home-of-lorry-deaths-suspect-38629161.html

No Bills

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Why do you think it's his?

It was one of the houses raided by the police. It was reported in a number of articles that it is where he lives. I believe quite a few of the photos of "his" truck were taken in the driveway of this house.

Loafing Oaf

MadYaker wrote: »

Yeah he's in a right spot he is. I've zero sympathy for him.

Agreed. Unless this whole thing was done without his knowledge he deserves a manslaughter conviction IMO.

McMurphy

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Agreed. Unless this whole thing was done without his knowledge he deserves a manslaughter conviction IMO.

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK?

Robinson may be caught by the ghoulies knowingly going to play his part in transporting illegal immigrants, but will they be able to hold him responsible for their deaths?

I know shag all about the law, but this will be an interesting one.

volchitsa

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK

Robinson may be caught by the ghoulies knowingly going to play his part in transporting illegal immigrants, but will they be able to hold him responsible for their deaths?

I know shag all about the law, but this will be an interesting one.

I think it's being complicit with the plan that resulted in their deaths. Like the getaway driver also being found guilty when a security guard is killed in a robbery. Or Boy B in the Ana Kriegel murder.

NIMAN

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK?

Robinson may be caught by the ghoulies knowingly going to play his part in transporting illegal immigrants, but will they be able to hold him responsible for their deaths?

I know shag all about the law, but this will be an interesting one.

I'm guessing date/time of death for the 39 will affect how his defence approach his trial.

As you say, if they were dead a day before he picked up the trailer, he wasn't involved in their deaths.

_Brian

cosanostra wrote: »

Because gangsters use debt as a way of making usually decent people do things they don't want to. Not saying this is the case my point was that the main players will get off scot free and probably already have another driver lined up for the next collection

Very common amd successful tactic.

Rack up €10k in debt to a drug dealer and you would sell your soul to clear it.

ctrl-alt-delete

NIMAN wrote: »

I'm guessing date/time of death for the 39 will affect how his defence approach his trial.

As you say, if they were dead a day before he picked up the trailer, he wasn't involved in their deaths.

Will it be an easy task working out an approximate time of death given the conditions?

Calypso Realm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK?

I have wondered exactly same thing. Logically (if proven and it sounds very probable) he couldn't possibly be responsible, so how on earth could be he convicted?

Also it will be interesting to see what ensues when results of PMs are released.

Galwayguy35

Calypso Realm wrote: »

I have wondered exactly same thing. Logically (if proven and it sounds very probable) he couldn't possibly be responsible, so how on earth could be he convicted?

Also it will be interesting to see what ensues when results of PMs are released.

Maybe they would argue that he should have checked to see they were all right the minute he hooked up to the trailer instead of just driving to what seems to be the drop off point nearly an hour later.

McMurphy

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Will it be an easy task working out an approximate time of death given the conditions?

If they were frozen or died due to hypothermia, then I think some of the more modern fridges will keep logs of when the fridge was turned on, how long it was running for, and at what temp, so in theory using info like this could be relatively easy to estimate time of death.

Equally if it was suffocation due to lack of Oxygen inside a sealed airtight trailer, then they can prob estimate when they are most likely to have perished using information available ref the number of people Vs what oxygen would have been available to them.

This is why I think that in theory, the lad arrested getting off the ferry might be in deeper sh1t than Robinson is in.

riemann

Mute point in the grand scheme of things but I was surprised how cheap it was to hire a chilled container for a week

bilzo

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer
4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird

I don't personally know how beneficial or detrimental the Last point is but I have read it in a broadsheet and they described it. As potentially avoiding some attention?

the_pen_turner

where are people getting tht he drove for a hour. . he entered the industrial estate 5 minutes after leaving the dock. in the next 30 min he called the ambulance , they arived and rang the police

Masteryos

bilzo wrote: »

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)
2. They died of suffocation so fridge was probably turned off, begging the question why did he check the trailer if it would be "empty"
3. Why did he stop 1 hour away to check the trailer
4. He entered the UK from Dublin which would has been said to be an unorthodox route and that it would have taken a day longer, why? Without a trailer just seems really weird

I don't personally know how beneficial or detrimental the Last point is but I have read it in a broadsheet and they described it. As potentially avoiding some attention?

Lots of things point to him being heavily involved. I'm not sure about the travel route but considering (from what I heard on the news) that the port the trailer came in from isn't one of the bigger ports does show that they've all figured out routes to get around security from travelling with the lorry to the port that the trailer comes in from.

Going from the discussion further up the page about the manslaughter charge, I'd say the safer bet is getting sentenced for money laundering and human trafficking. Easier to put him away if they can show he was taking money for this than probably trying to get a jury to convict him over manslaughter.

Loafing Oaf

bilzo wrote: »

It's an uphill battle for Mo because in my opinion these things don't add up
1. All the arrested are northern Irish (harsh correlation but I think its significant)

I haven't seen which part of Ireland the Mahers are from but presumably with a name like that the husband at least must be of Catholic/nationalist 'stock'. I'd be surprised to find this sort of racket was 'cross-community' but presumably Mo, if involved at all, was just a footsoldier.

alan1963

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Serious question, but how can Robinson or anyone else be fingered with manslaughter or murder charges if it can be proven that these people were dead before arriving in the UK?

Robinson may be caught by the ghoulies knowingly going to play his part in transporting illegal immigrants, but will they be able to hold him responsible for their deaths?

I know shag all about the law, but this will be an interesting one.

From wikipedia-
The doctrine of common purpose, common design, joint enterprise, or joint criminal enterprise is a common-law legal doctrine that imputes criminal liability to the participants in a criminal enterprise for all that results from that enterprise.