39 people found dead in trailer in UK

antix80

Deleted User wrote: »

My point still stands. Her family's circumstances don't negate the fact that the world is full of people who were trafficked, and people who paid to be smuggled.

You're right.

But my point.. When the feedback isn't "they caught me, fined me/seized my assets, and sent me back" They'll keep coming.

LuasSimon

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I know. That's how I saw the flag pic.
But the initial issue raised was if he was Irish or not, not if he was 'RA or UDA.

Think the bould Mo considers himself 100% British and definitely not Irish , he will have plenty of time on the mainland for the coming years if not decades to copper-fasten his Britishness after his trial .

Yurt2

@Ads by Google. I understand you live in Vietnam. From what I'm reading from various sources, is there an element in rural Vietnam whereby communities/parents see the the houses / cars bought with remittances from their sons and daughters in Europe and force their kids' hands to go? filiel piety with a dose of keeping up with the Joneses?

I note that she had just returned from Japan (legally). There are many legal avenues for Vietnamese labourers and low skill workers to go earn decent money in wealthier Asian countries such as Singapore, Korea or Japan. Why are they being encouraged to take these extraordinary risks to go to Europe for not much more money? (Having said that, I know in Japan and Korea, authorities are getting browned off with Vietnamese going missing into the black economy once their work permit expires?)

Spanish Eyes

Look, apologies if I am an innocent idiot, but why would one someone pay 30 grand to be traffficked, if they could just get a holiday visa and overstay and blend in with the rest of them.

I just cannot get my head around it TBH.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Look, apologies if I am an innocent idiot, but why would one someone pay 30 grand to be traffficked, if they could just get a holiday visa and overstay and blend in with the rest of them.

I just cannot get my head around it TBH.

My English friend had documented proof of a four year relationship with a wealthy Vietnamese girl, with his family sponsoring her or whatever, and she got denied. It's really really difficult.

Plus, the money has to be somewhat legit. You can't just have your parents remortgage and lodge. A business or a good job that you'd want to return to will increase your chances.

Yurt!, I'll respond to that tomorrow. Late here.

Loafing Oaf

AloneInTheDark wrote: »

I doubt he went around asking who was signing his paycheck.

This is all about money

Although it's turned out to be Mo money Mo problems...

FrancieBrady

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Look, apologies if I am an innocent idiot, but why would one someone pay 30 grand to be traffficked, if they could just get a holiday visa and overstay and blend in with the rest of them.

I just cannot get my head around it TBH.

Seems that in the case of the young girl, she thought she would be flown into the UK.

Probably had to go with it when the flight only got them to Europe.

iamwhoiam

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Look, apologies if I am an innocent idiot, but why would one someone pay 30 grand to be traffficked, if they could just get a holiday visa and overstay and blend in with the rest of them.

I just cannot get my head around it TBH.

I asked similar . Why would the family go €30k in debt to get a loved one out to the UK ? They must think they can earn massive salaries to be able to pay back the debt plus send money to support the family back home ?
Would there not be people they know already in the UK telling them differently ? Word must be getting back to these villages then they seem to have smart phones etc

Also and I will probably get shot down for this . I think the victims have a role to play in this tragedy , they were aware they were entering a country illegally after all .

anewme

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Saw this the other day:



Makes little odds to the poor people being trafficked.

Might be an odd observation but the way he is standing behind the red bit on the flag makes him look like one of those tall yokes you see blowing around in the wind outside Garages and shops. No idea what they are called.

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

My English friend had documented proof of a four year relationship with a wealthy Vietnamese girl, with his family sponsoring her or whatever, and she got denied. It's really really difficult.

Plus, the money has to be somewhat legit. You can't just have your parents remortgage and lodge. A business or a good job that you'd want to return to will increase your chances.

Yurt!, I'll respond to that tomorrow. Late here.

Denied a holiday visa?

Spanish Eyes

Are Vietnamese and Chinese routinely denied tourist visas or what? Is that why they pay probably 20 times the cost to get to UK with probable death being the cost?

Sorry I must be missing something.

beauf

Yurt! wrote: »

@Ads by Google. I understand you live in Vietnam. From what I'm reading from various sources, is there an element in rural Vietnam whereby communities/parents see the the houses / cars bought with remittances from their sons and daughters in Europe and force their kids' hands to go? filiel piety with a dose of keeping up with the Joneses?

I note that she had just returned from Japan (legally). There are many legal avenues for Vietnamese labourers and low skill workers to go earn decent money in wealthier Asian countries such as Singapore, Korea or Japan. Why are they being encouraged to take these extraordinary risks to go to Europe for not much more money? (Having said that, I know in Japan and Korea, authorities are getting browned off with Vietnamese going missing into the black economy once their work permit expires?)

I don't get it either.

antix80

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I just cannot get my head around it TBH.

My understanding...countries who's citizens get handy visas also fasttrack deportation..
And they just don't get in without proof of funds, tuition paid, expensive return flights.
And country folk are naive.

All of our african and middle eastern friends, mainly muslim.. FGM, persecuted for being gay, house blown up in syria.. Not a grain of truth in any of it but we can't kick them out for whatever reason.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Denied a holiday visa?

Yeah, literally because of what is being suggested here. The Vietnamese passport is one of the weakest in the world.

Spanish Eyes

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I asked similar . Why would the family go €30k in debt to get a loved one out to the UK ? They must think they can earn massive salaries to be able to pay back the debt plus send money to support the family back home ?
Would there not be people they know already in the UK telling them differently ? Word must be getting back to these villages then they seem to have smart phones etc

Also and I will probably get shot down for this . I think the victims have a role to play in this tragedy , they were aware they were entering a country illegally after all .

Am baffled TBH. But organised crime is a world of its own I suppose.

AloneInTheDark

One of the rags says she actually got to the UK and was deported back to France and this was her 2nd attempt at getting back in. As someone else said why would someone put their family into €30k debt. Can only speculate that they were forced by gangs.

Yurt2

AloneInTheDark wrote: »

One of the rags says she actually got to the UK and was deported back to France and this was her 2nd attempt at getting back in. As someone else said why would someone put their family into €30k debt. Can only speculate that they were forced by gangs.

Not to indict an ethnicity/nationality, but it appears that a chunk of the Vietnamese diaspora in Europe is in cahoots with the trafficking networks. I'm thinking of the huge proliferation of nail bars in the UK (and in recent years Ireland), a lot of the grow house busts in both the UK and Ireland have Vietnamese names associated with them.

This is perhaps somewhat unsurprising as the history of emigration from Vietnam in the 20th century was to leave by all means necessary (boat people) and the diaspora became accustomed to facilitating these attempts.

This added to the fact that once you land in in Ireland or the UK, it's relatively easy to stay under the radar. You can't fart sideways or get anything done in France or many other EU countries without a national ID card or correct paperwork.

AloneInTheDark

AloneInTheDark wrote: »

As someone else said why would someone put their family into €30k debt. Can only speculate that they were forced by gangs.

Your child can make 100-150euro a month if lucky in Ha Tinh. Or you can take your 30k home, remortgage it, and that child now makes over ten times that and sends most of it home. Mortgage paid off in a few years and daughter still there making lots of money.

My ex's family nearly paid over 20k for her to get an air hostess job, because you could make so much money buying cosmetics and iPhones abroad and selling them here. It's just normal that the family forks out a lot in the hopes that that investment is paid back in a few years and then the kid still has that job, or is still in the UK.

Spanish Eyes

Holiday visas must be very difficult to obtain from Vietnam or wherever to here or UK.

Overstay for one tenth or less than the price of a deadly trafficked journey.

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your child can make 100-150euro a month if lucky in Ha Tinh. Or you can take your 30k home, remortgage it, and that child now makes over ten times that and sends most of it home. Mortgage paid off in a few years and daughter still there making lots of money.

My ex's family nearly paid over 20k for her to get an air hostess job, because you could make so much money buying cosmetics and iPhones abroad and selling them here. It's just normal that the family forks out a lot in the hopes that that investment is paid back in a few years and then the kid still has that job, or is still in the UK.

The point was you can do as good if not better than the UK in other places far closer.

Bazzy

Two observations i'll make

The media have made this case VERY difficult for the police involved, i'd say that will be the defence

Also just to be clear if the police raided your house and found 100 euro you couldn't account for they could charge you for money laundering

They could be using it to try and gleam info from the driver of the truck and put pressure on him

its within the realms of possibility young Mo was doing a nixer for cash. if the trailer made it through two ports roll on roll off it had some form of load/documentation

He very well could be heavily involved. But his chance at a fair trial seems to have been ruined by the media

Quantum Erasure

anewme wrote: »

Might be an odd observation but the way he is standing behind the red bit on the flag makes him look like one of those tall yokes you see blowing around in the wind outside Garages and shops. No idea what they are called.

Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man?

anewme

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man?

Yes its that thing! He looks like a red one of them in the photo.

Suppose that's the least of his worries really.

Galwayguy35

Bazzy wrote: »

Two observations i'll make

The media have made this case VERY difficult for the police involved, i'd say that will be the defence

Also just to be clear if the police raided your house and found 100 euro you couldn't account for they could charge you for money laundering

They could be using it to try and gleam info from the driver of the truck and put pressure on him

its within the realms of possibility young Mo was doing a nixer for cash. if the trailer made it through two ports roll on roll off it had some form of load/documentation

He very well could be heavily involved. But his chance at a fair trial seems to have been ruined by the media

If he has nothing to hide he has nothing to fear, the media looked up his FB page and showed his photo and that's about it really.

SEPT 23 1989

At some point 39 people were dying and panicking and hammering on that fridge units sides and back doors

Nobody heard?

pinkyeye

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Holiday visas must be very difficult to obtain from Vietnam or wherever to here or UK.

Overstay for one tenth or less than the price of a deadly trafficked journey.

I think this has been said before Spanish Eyes but if you arrive on a tourist visa there's a paper trail so the police will come looking for you.

If you arrive illegally no paper trail, no-one looking for you.

Sittingpretty

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

At some point 39 people were dying and panicking and hammering on that fridge units sides and back doors

Nobody heard?

If it’s a refrigerated unit it’s probably a double shell, plus being shunted and moved around a busy port/ferry with other lorries and noise all around so it’s plausible that no one heard them

antix80

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

At some point 39 people were dying and panicking and hammering on that fridge units sides and back doors

Nobody heard?

Are you stating the obvious? Of course no one heard.

Loafing Oaf

Sittingpretty wrote: »

If it’s a refrigerated unit it’s probably a double shell, plus being shunted and moved around a busy port/ferry with other lorries and noise all around so it’s plausible that no one heard them

Presumably a positive for smugglers and smugglees if things are going to plan. If a passerby heard a sneeze or whatever from inside there could be unwanted attention...

Mules

I suppose if they started to get ill on the ferry then nobody would be there to hear them. The driver can't stay with the truck. Afaik everyone has to leave the car deck.