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39 people found dead in trailer in UK

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    #242
    Lady Spangles
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Lady Spangles


    Gerrydubar wrote: »
    IT has been suggested on social media that he's a UVF member.

    I'm just pointing out that they might have some connection with this as they have been known for trafficking.

    Yes, but social media isn't exactly the most reliable of news outlets really. Some might go so far as to say social media isn't a news outlet at all. Also, at this early stage of the investigation, repeating rumours is only going to obfuscate the matter. We don't know who the driver was, beyond his name and place of origin. We know nothing about his political affiliations, paramilitary allegiances (if any) or what colour socks he prefers etc etc.

    I don't know what you have to gain from this mudslinging, less still registering on the site for the sole purpose of doing so. People smuggling is a far, far bigger issue than the UVF.


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    #243
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Check out reports from calais, sneaking in while at traffic (although not 39 people) , cutting and repairing curtainsides, or somebody putting them in and resealing after, those tags arent hard to get

    It happens but in this case if they’d broken in surely they’d have been able to get out and they wouldn’t have died. I’d say it was sealed with them in there. What a way to go...


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    #244
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,952 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    antix80 wrote: »
    Why is it just the lorry driver being arrested? The politicians and authorities are complicit. There would be no demand for illegal ferrying of immigrants if illegals were shipped back rather than being allowed to stay.

    The owner of the truck who is allegedly an Irish woman according to the Bulgarian embassy should be arrested imo.

    The truck is registered in Bulgaria but has not been seen in Bulgaria since 2017??


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    #245
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Tip of the iceberg I reckon.

    But Brexit will sort it out, controlling their borders and all that. But they can do it now can't they?

    God love those who died. But I agree it is organised and has been for some time. Probably more lucrative than importing cigs and drugs nowadays.


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    #246
    Rayne Wooney
    Registered Users Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Rayne Wooney


    Surely a haulage company can’t be dragging containers across Europe not knowing what’s inside in this day and age? Someone at the company must be involved at some level?

    I’d imagine there’s a warehouse around the area that the truck was found that’ll be emptied out or probably already has been, operations moved elsewhere.


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    #247
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    MadYaker wrote: »
    It happens but in this case if they’d broken in surely they’d have been able to get out and they wouldn’t have died. I’d say it was sealed with them in there. What a way to go...

    Even with no seal, you wouldnt get those doors open from the inside, doubt professionals overlooked that fridge containers are not vented, i bet there was 40 people working together, found it in a yard near a port and got 39 of them in, the 40th closes the doors and seals it again, off they go, oxygen depletes and they all pass out

    Theres also an old wives tail among drug dealers that fridge containers are xray proof , possible some dumbass thought that was the best way and forgot about needing to breath.

    Id say the chances of the driver actually knowing they were there is around 30%

    For those on about the seals - you can buy them online , find out what colour/style a particular company uses and you can copy them easily.


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    #248
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I said it earlier in the thread, surely there is a Customs seal on trucks travelling here there and yonder. If sealed on departure, how the heck could 39 people be unobserved on the exit seal check, or indeed if they broke the seal, how was that not noticed either on arrival.

    Begs the question, and I won't say it, but are there more than foreign traffickers involved now?


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    #249
    Lady Spangles
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Lady Spangles


    Gerrydubar wrote: »
    The UVF have been involved in people smuggling.

    At no point have I denied this. I'm sure they're all up to all sorts. But I still don't see how rumours you read on social media prove the driver was definitely in the UVF and definitely consciously involved in people smuggling.


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    #250
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Tip of the iceberg I reckon.
    But Brexit will sort it out, controlling their borders and all that. But they can do it now can't they?

    Very small tip of the iceberg. Brexit may only help brexitland (if they hire more borderstaff) but the traffickers may well choose Ire as the next direct alternative destination of choice.

    Bloke on the TV news said the Zeebrugge Harbourmaster sends out 4,000 containers to Dover/Eng every day. And every day they find illegal migrants trying to conceal themselves. He also mentioned there was a sharp uptake in recent weeks with this brexit stuff looming closer.


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    #251
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Lady Spangles wrote: »
    Yes, but social media isn't exactly the most reliable of news outlets really. Some might go so far as to say social media isn't a news outlet at all. Also, at this early stage of the investigation, repeating rumours is only going to obfuscate the matter. We don't know who the driver was, beyond his name and place of origin. We know nothing about his political affiliations, paramilitary allegiances (if any) or what colour socks he prefers etc etc.

    I don't know what you have to gain from this mudslinging, less still registering on the site for the sole purpose of doing so. People smuggling is a far, far bigger issue than the UVF.

    Well unless this is the tip of the iceberg where the UVF and trafficking is concerned. Maybe it's very relevant.


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    #252
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Lady Spangles wrote: »
    At no point have I denied this. I'm sure they're all up to all sorts. But I still don't see how rumours you read on social media prove the driver was definitely in the UVF and definitely consciously involved in people smuggling.

    I don't think anyone made such definitive statements did they?


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    #253
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Are the Customs seals not working at all? Why bother with them if this can happen in full view.

    The can of worms may open up now.


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    #254
    Lady Spangles
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Lady Spangles


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Well unless this is the tip of the iceberg where the UVF and trafficking is concerned. Maybe it's very relevant.

    Then that will come out in relevent inquiries in due course. Repeating social media rumours isn't helping anyone.


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    #255
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Are the Customs seals not working at all? Why bother with them if this can happen in full view.

    The can of worms may open up now.

    Depends when and where the customs seals were added. Might be that some lad somewhere is on the take. Such operations have to be facilitated officially somewhere along the line.


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    #256
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Rayne Wooney wrote: »
    Surely a haulage company can’t be dragging containers across Europe not knowing what’s inside in this day and age?

    Happens every day of the week


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    #257
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Still waters wrote: »
    Happens every day of the week

    That’s staggering to be honest.


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    #258
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Rayne Wooney wrote: »
    Surely a haulage company can’t be dragging containers across Europe not knowing what’s inside in this day and age? Someone at the company must be involved at some level?

    I’d imagine there’s a warehouse around the area that the truck was found that’ll be emptied out or probably already has been, operations moved elsewhere.

    Isn't that the whole point of containers? Haulage companies can operate in a manner entirely agnostic of what's inside. Everything is shipped as a conforming unit with paperwork.

    And this paperwork won't have said 'illegals'

    But that may or may not be the case here. Time will tell.

    If the driver is an innocent, then your heart would break for him. What a tragedy! If not, well then...


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    #259
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    splinter65 wrote: »
    That’s staggering to be honest.

    It's not actually, containers are sealed, manifest of what they contain are given to the driver or forwarded to end receiver. Single market.


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    #260
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    splinter65 wrote: »
    That’s staggering to be honest.

    Why ? do you think courier drivers look into every package they deliver, i drove lorries for years and still do occasionally, you're paid to hook on and drive, if there's no seal on the doors you might have a look in to see if the load is ok but if the seals are on you better not touch it, some places won't take a delivery if the seals are tampered with, I'm talking about pharmaceuticals and computer components and medical instruments, they'd turn you away and you're responsible for the load so why would any driver/company risk it


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    #261
    Noveight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    Reading that the driver has been cleared and released.


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    #262
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 40,032 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    IRE60 wrote: »
    He's been arrested = can be named.

    Yes arrested not charged with anything and the police refused to comment on speculation of the drivers identity. He's not been charged with anything so sky news and the others should have named him or put pictures up alleging to be him. I mean what happens if he's found to have no part in the deaths of these people ?


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    #263
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 40,032 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Noveight wrote: »
    Reading that the driver has been cleared and released.

    If that's true than I hope sky and the others are happy. If what you say in true then they had no right to name him.


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    #264
    PostWoke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 559 ✭✭✭PostWoke


    splinter65 wrote: »
    That’s staggering to be honest.

    Not if you consider the amount of trade going on in the world.


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    #265
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,971 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    It's not actually, containers are sealed, manifest of what they contain are given to the driver or forwarded to end receiver. Single market.

    That is what we all believe. But honestly there must be some involvement by others in this. I really thought the SM and the Customs Seal were sacrosanct.

    But I suppose any system is open to messing around.

    Go to the most common denominator here. Customs seal on exit is my view, and then blind eye on entry when CS looks dodgy.

    Are there no CCTVs in ports anywhere to zoom in on the seals?

    My apologies, I am probably talking out of my rear end, but I am not totally stoopid either.


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    #266
    paska
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭paska


    At 17:30 today I read he was released without charge However RTE 6 one was still reporting he was being questioned. 6 one is live?
    His face was posted all over the Irish Rigs facebook page as well. Word is the lad is a diamond.


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    #267
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Still waters wrote: »
    Why ? do you think courier drivers look into every package they deliver, i drove lorries for years and still do occasionally, you're paid to hook on and drive, if there's no seal on the doors you might have a look in to see if the load is ok but if the seals are on you better not touch it, some places won't take a delivery if the seals are tampered with, I'm talking about pharmaceuticals and computer components and medical instruments, they'd turn you away and you're responsible for the load so why would any driver/company risk it

    RTÉ reporting the bodies were discovered 35 minutes after the unit was collected from Tilbury. Chances are either it was being tipped at a warehouse that worked 24hrs, or driver parked up for the night then took a look in the back to check the load and called the cops.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/1023/1085091-essex/
    Gardaí are satisfied the 39 people found dead in a container in the UK this morning were not trafficked through the Republic of Ireland.

    Detectives from the Garda National Immigration Bureau and officers from Special Crime Operations have been investigating the route the truck, and the container, took from Europe to Essex in England.

    They have established that the container in which the bodies of 39 people were found went directly into the UK from Belgium.

    The container arrived on a ferry from Zeebrugge to Purfleet at 12.30am this morning, and was driven away by the truck at 1.05am.

    The bodies were discovered 35 minutes later in the Thurrock area of Essex.


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    #268
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭paul71


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Genuine question here, what is the draw to UK specifically, rather than any other EU country... France, or even in thus case, Ireland?

    Why do people risk their lives to get from France to UK?

    Language


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    #269
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 52,012 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Still waters wrote: »
    Why ? do you think courier drivers look into every package they deliver, i drove lorries for years and still do occasionally, you're paid to hook on and drive, if there's no seal on the doors you might have a look in to see if the load is ok but if the seals are on you better not touch it, some places won't take a delivery if the seals are tampered with, I'm talking about pharmaceuticals and computer components and medical instruments, they'd turn you away and you're responsible for the load so why would any driver/company risk it

    So would the person who sealed it not have looked into the container and seen the people? Surely he would. Who signs off on loads and certifies that it’s all there?
    Something very wrong somewhere.


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    #270
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Noveight wrote: »
    Reading that the driver has been cleared and released.

    Link please as not even BBC website updated with this news?


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    #271
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    That is what we all believe. But honestly there must be some involvement by others in this. I really thought the SM and the Customs Seal were sacrosanct.

    But I suppose any system is open to messing around.

    Go to the most common denominator here. Customs seal on exit is my view, and then blind eye on entry when CS looks dodgy.

    Are there no CCTVs in ports anywhere to zoom in on the seals?

    My apologies, I am probably talking out of my rear end, but I am not totally stoopid either.

    Another poster covered this, seals can be bought online and matched to the company you are targeting for smuggling purposes. The trafficking groups are quite sophisticated but it's not exactly over complicated to reseal a container and pass cursory inspection.


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