NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2019-20 Thread

ButtersSuki

Walter Hissing Sandpaper wrote: »

As I stated, discussing the glossing over of travelling at half court on inbounds is a separate conversation.

You feel it's relevant here, I, on the other hand -and I'm guessing everyone else- would largely believe raising it is a distraction to the original discussion which was whether or not LBJ made the right play.

The consensus among the media including Bill Simmons is that it was the right play.
Nobody in the media is going to mention whether he travelled at half court or not because in a practical sense it had no impact.

I do struggle to understand how you cant grasp the practical difference as travelling vs not travelling at half court made no difference to the play.
We all know it happens but raising it here is a distraction, nothing more.
As I said, nobody in media is going to mention its impact on the play.

If you want to discuss the decision of the play itself I'm up for it but if you're getting into a long term discussion on refs glossing over travels, then I have little interest as just like the GOAT stuff, it's been done to death.

Simmons actually said later in the same podcast that he doesn’t understand why LeBron didn’t go to the hoop and play bully-ball like he did with 90 seconds left. I’m listening to it right now, it’s just been said.

ButtersSuki

jk23 wrote: »

I don't think this is going to matter on Sunday, I think it was the Heats last stand, I think they will run out of gas in a game 6

Jimmy Butler has really taken his star to a new level in these playoffs, one of the best stories of the playoffs...

Don’t know, the heat have momentum. Sure they look tired, but it really depends on how injured or not Davis is - that’s key for me.

@6/1

Heat to win it out @6/1

Jimmy Buckets MVP @6/1

Heat 4-3 @6/1


Lebron is feeling the Heat.

xgronkjabv6pcl

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Simmons actually said later in the same podcast that he doesn’t understand why LeBron didn’t go to the hoop and play bully-ball like he did with 90 seconds left. I’m listening to it right now, it’s just been said.

As I previously said, Simmons is a decent broadcaster but his analysis is sketchy at times.
Great personality and great historical knowledge but leaves alot to be desired on granular details.
Perhaps he did but his initial reaction was it was the correct play and Chris Vernon agreed.

If Simmons decides to contradict himself in the same podcast then that says more about the value of his analysis overall than anything else.

ButtersSuki

Walter Hissing Sandpaper wrote: »

As I previously said, Simmons is a decent broadcaster but his analysis is sketchy at times.
Great personality and great historical knowledge but leaves alot to be desired on granular details.
Perhaps he did but his initial reaction was it was the correct play and Chris Vernon agreed.

If Simmons decides to contradict himself in the same podcast then that says more about the value of his analysis overall than anything else.

Do you think there’s any possibility of calling the play that happened the right play, but also saying that the other option might in fact - given the circumstances - have been a “better” play. There are many, many, many examples of solo plays winning games where they were t necessarily “the right play” in the strictest sense of the word.

“If” LeBron has chosen to go 1 v 5 and made the shot and LA won I’m pretty sure you’d all be here praising him to high heaven once again.

Also, is he (Simmons) not allowed to revise his opinion upon further reflection?

EagererBeaver

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Well that sums it up perfectly then doesn’t it?
Doesn’t matter if LeBron travels on a potential game winning play?! Ok, sure. :rolleyes:

Absolute nonsense again. Maybe it's bevause you're so old like you to remind everyone.

The arguement you're really trying to make is that LeBron bottled it by passing out in the big moment. The travel has absolutely nothing to do with that whatsoever.

"MJ pushed off"

K.O.Kiki

Do we not have mods?

EagererBeaver

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Yeah he’s an idiot.:rolleyes:

Simmons is, notoriously, an idiot. The fact he's knowledgeable about basketball has nothing to do with that.

He's a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell and his 10,000 hours. Maybe if you'd used some more of your extended time on this earth to work on your jump shot, we'd be taking about you as the GOAT.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

Heat to win it out @6/1

Deleted User wrote:

Jimmy Buckets MVP @6/1

Deleted User wrote:

Heat 4-3 @6/1

First and third are the same bets, second is too because it's guaranteed if the first or third happen.

xgronkjabv6pcl

eagle eye wrote: »

First and third are the same bets, second is too because it's guaranteed if the first or third happen.

All you want to do is find a book that will let you do the double now. :P

I recall one book had a flaw a number of years ago which allowed you to combine Winner, Top 5, Top 10, Top 20 etc in Golf markets but very short term thing before it was identified.

jk23

Does anyone here really think the Heat can win two more games against this Lakers team?

EagererBeaver

jk23 wrote: »

Does anyone here really think the Heat can win two more games against this Lakers team?

Can they? Absolutely, especially if Davis is badly hampered.

Will they? Probably not.

eagle eye

jk23 wrote:

Does anyone here really think the Heat can win two more games against this Lakers team?

It's all on Jimmy Butler and Bam who looked like he was getting back towards his best as the game went on last night.
If those two are playing well, everybody else improves around them.

ButtersSuki

jk23 wrote: »

Does anyone here really think the Heat can win two more games against this Lakers team?

Yes. If Davis is hampered it’s all to play for.

ButtersSuki

After Mur28 and I discussed some differences privately we have reached an amicable agreement on our respective comments. I'd like to apologise for my part in temporarily derailing the thread and have deleted a number of posts.

Back to hoops.

Genuine questions:
1) should Howard have been ejected for the foul on Butler?
2) would a Heat player have been ejected for the same foul on James?

xgronkjabv6pcl

ButtersSuki wrote: »

After Mur28 and I discussed some differences privately we have reached an amicable agreement on our respective comments. I'd like to apologise for my part in temporarily derailing the thread and have deleted a number of posts.

Apologies for my part guys.

I reached out to ButtersSuki to suggest deleting some comments as the thread was derailed unnecessarily. We came to an amicable conclusion on the disagreement.

Also if mods want to ignore the couple of reported posts so not to perpetuate this further.

chopperbyrne

Only seen a short 90 second highlights so can't really comment on the overall game, but the pass was 100% the right play given how everyone was positioned.

If the shot had gone in, there'd be no discussion on this at all.

Still think Lakers take it, but Heat, particularly Butler, have done incredibly well to make it competitive.

Vital Transformation

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Oh come on.

This is not Danny Green from the Spurs. He’s been very poor in the bubble. I’m too tired to look at the percentages but it’s been a running joke on one of the regular pods I listen to that “he’s never making a shot again”.

I’m not sure that would be the first pass option off a designed play. Also, why create that shot with so much time left? Even if he made it, Miami has a chance to tie.

So I have to assume the play broke down. It happens.

But, why isn’t LeBron taking that shot? You take that to the hole, hard. You either jump stop, fake, pivot etc to create your shot in the lane, or you create contact and go to the line, or you go to the hole.

He has a history of passing in these situations.

I await the hate.

Green is having one of his poorer years from three, following a year where he shot his best ever percentage (on his second highest amount of attempts). But that's only bearing in mind the regular season, his averages tanked between the regular season and playoffs last year. They dropped this year in the bubble also but nowhere near as much, largely because his three has been subpar in general.

Despite all that, I think that play was a decent option for LeBron to run in that situation.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Vital Transformation wrote: »

Green is having one of his poorer years from three, following a year where he shot his best ever percentage (on his second highest amount of attempts). But that's only bearing in mind the regular season, his averages tanked between the regular season and playoffs last year. They dropped this year in the bubble also but nowhere near as much, largely because his three has been subpar in general.

Despite all that, I think that play was a decent option for LeBron to run in that situation.

I think that criticism of Green is completely fine but what could the Lakers have done differently?

Is there really a viable alternative for that shot?

How many role players in the league let alone the Lakers exist who are better options to take it?

As some who is analytical about the game, sometimes to a detriment, I think even thought his shooting percentage is down, I'd find it very hard to pick a better suited player for that shot.

2 time winner most recently as of last year when shooting approx 45% reg season and 40% playoffs.

Hard for the Lakers to discount that even though he's shooting like 33% this offseason and kick it to KCP(38%).

eagle eye

ButtersSuki wrote:

Genuine questions: 1) should Howard have been ejected for the foul on Butler? 2) would a Heat player have been ejected for the same foul on James?

Yes and yes.

eagle eye

Walter Hissing Sandpaper wrote:

Is there really a viable alternative for that shot?

This is the most important thing. He was open and you gotta let him have the shot.

xgronkjabv6pcl

eagle eye wrote: »

This is the most important thing. He was open and you gotta let him have the shot.

Yeah absolutely but I think the only real criticism rests potentially on Vogel.

Was there a better option than Green, for me there wasn't but I can understand an argument for someone like KCP.

Vital Transformation

Walter Hissing Sandpaper wrote: »

I think that criticism of Green is completely fine but what could the Lakers have done differently?

Is there really a viable alternative for that shot?

How many role players in the league let alone the Lakers exist who are better options to take it?

As some who is analytical about the game, sometimes to a detriment, I think even thought his shooting percentage is down, I'd find it very hard to pick a better suited player for that shot.

2 time winner most recently as of last year when shooting approx 45% reg season and 40% playoffs.

Hard for the Lakers to discount that even though he's shooting like 33% this offseason and kick it to KCP(38%).

I actually don't disagree with you at all. I just mostly found it interesting how much he struggled in the playoffs compared to an excellent regular season with the Raptors, where his shooting was even better than any season in San Antonio, the place where he made his name.

He's shot 40%+ for half his career so I think passing to him when wide open is a pretty good play to run still.

xgronkjabv6pcl

L2M Report wrote: »

The NBA upheld the two calls Los Angeles Lakers coach Frank Vogel took exception with in L.A.'s 111-108 Game 5 loss to the Miami Heat in the NBA Finals on Friday, but the league did find two other calls that should have gone the Lakers' way.

In its last two-minute report released Saturday, the NBA announced that Jimmy Butler should have been called for a shooting foul on LeBron James with 1:01 remaining in the fourth quarter for extending his arm and making contact with the side of James' head on a drive to the hoop when L.A. was trailing 105-104. The missed call ended up being inconsequential as James corralled his own miss and laid the ball in to put L.A. up 106-105 with 58.2 seconds left.

It also determined that with 28 seconds remaining, Miami's Andre Iguodala should have been called for a defensive three-seconds violation for not clearing the lane when not actively guarding an opponent. Again, the no-call did not affect the Lakers as that possession ended with a layup for Anthony Davis to put L.A. up 108-107 with 21.8 seconds left.

Vogel:
"I felt two bad calls at the end put Butler to the line, you know, and that's unfortunate in a game of this magnitude," Vogel said. "Anthony Davis has a perfect verticality, should be a play-on. And the time before that, Markieff Morris has his hands on the ball -- that should be a play-on. They were given four free throws and made it an uphill battle for us. Very disappointed in that aspect of the game."

https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0041900405

No issues with the missed calls though I did think AD jumped straight up on that play.

It felt a harsh call for playoffs.

Also, funny enough that it was actually Butler who got away with a travel in L2M as noted in the report.

xgronkjabv6pcl

Good story from DeRozan about playing against LeBron a few years ago in the playoffs.

Sweet.Science

The heat were 75/1 before the regular season started . They were without 2 of their 3 best players for most of the finals . Should the 'goat' have swept them . Especially with another top 5 player with him . I think so

xgronkjabv6pcl

Sweet.Science wrote: »

The heat were 75/1 before the regular season started . They were without 2 of their 3 best players for most of the finals . Should the 'goat' have swept them . Especially with another top 5 player with him . I think so

Perhaps the narrative is less about "The Goat" and Lakers "shortcomings" than it is about The Heats effort.

Obviously 3-2 up in an NBA finals can only be viewed as a shortcoming for a very small contingent.

ButtersSuki

I'm gradually coming around to thinking Miami are actually going to do this. Of course it's more unlikely than likely, and all things considered we really shouldn't be here right now but if AD is not 100% then it's all to play for.....but curcialy, Miami have the momentum.

Will be interesting to see if Scott Foster is refereeing tonight or Game 7 should there be one.....

jk23

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I'm gradually coming around to thinking Miami are actually going to do this. Of course it's more unlikely than likely, and all things considered we really shouldn't be here right now but if AD is not 100% then it's all to play for.....but curcialy, Miami have the momentum.

Will be interesting to see if Scott Foster is refereeing tonight or Game 7 should there be one.....

I think LeBron gets them over the line tonight or game 7 if it goes that far, can't see Miami getting past the Lakers tonight and certainly not winning two in a row

ButtersSuki

jk23 wrote: »

I think LeBron gets them over the line tonight or game 7 if it goes that far, can't see Miami getting past the Lakers tonight and certainly not winning two in a row

As I said, it's more unlikely than likely, I just have a feeling. Part of this is driven tby the stangness of the bubble circumstances. Were this a proper Home and Away series with fans I seriously doubt I'd be thinking along these lines.

Could be completely wrong of course.