What do people want from their politicians?

James Brown

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Can only find Newstalk covering it, any other coverage comes from 2014. It’s classed as a retirement payment.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/local-councillors-lost-seats-receive-retirement-payments-e6m-914609

The one lad citing how many years he gave to the council. Give that man a medal :rolleyes: We've people digging ditches and working in factories get less.

blanch152

Geuze wrote: »

Should all pension lump-sums, across society, be abolished?

If so, pension payments will have to rise to compensate.

Exactly.

Some people don't understand that defined benefit schemes have two options.

A half-salary pension and a lump sum or a two-thirds pension and no lump sum. Either option is legitimate under revenue rules.

Do the people on here calling for no lump sum realise that means a TD getting two-thirds salary in retirement?

EmmetSpiceland

blanch152 wrote: »

Exactly.

Some people don't understand that defined benefit schemes have two options.

A half-salary pension and a lump sum or a two-thirds pension and no lump sum. Either option is legitimate under revenue rules.

Do the people on here calling for no lump sum realise that means a TD getting two-thirds salary in retirement?

My issue isn’t with the “lump sum” payments, B. It’s the structure of the political pensions, themselves.

Getting a full pension after a few years is obscene. The costs involved are astronomical.

The old pension setups, even for the average civil servant, are crazy. I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who’s on one but it’s hard to see how they can continue on into the future. There has to come a time when “new hires” are put into a modern, generous, defined contribution setup.

Wibbling wonder

Brian Cowen for example "retired" at 55 and gets an enormous pension for life whereas the rest of us that don't have gold plated DB pensions will be lucky to have any level of decent income when we retire. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind in terms of trying to drive any pension reform there. If I could get it you'd better believe I'd take it!

I think politicians are expected to jump every time a constituent calls them on the local issues that matter to them and therein lies the issue. We want the cute hoors who'll fix the potholes or get grants for you locally and then wonder why they do it on a national level.

Snow Garden

Vision
Accountability
Honesty/Honour
Greater good as opposed to parish pump thinking
Stop attending funerals to get/keep votes
No fraud

Eric Cartman

Politicians not afraid to call put the problems in our society for fear of being called a racist etc...

Snow Garden

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Politicians not afraid to call put the problems in our society for fear of being called a racist etc...

Whats worse is that as soon as they are called a racist they do their level best to prove that they are not racist. "Some of my best friends are <insert race>" crap and a few photos to prove it.
This might be controversial but I think people that are racists need to own it. Fcuk the PC brigade. Many Irish people are a little bit racist, own it.

James Brown

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

My issue isn’t with the “lump sum” payments, B. It’s the structure of the political pensions, themselves.

Getting a full pension after a few years is obscene. The costs involved are astronomical.

The old pension setups, even for the average civil servant, are crazy. I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who’s on one but it’s hard to see how they can continue on into the future. There has to come a time when “new hires” are put into a modern, generous, defined contribution setup.

I agree. Some folk get confused or pretend to with the term 'lump sum' though and align it with the pension agreement. The lump sums I've issue with are separate from the pension arrangement. such as:

Taoiseach to get backbench TD’s salary when he steps down
It was reported last week that Mr Kenny would receive an estimated lump sum of €378,000 on his retirement and a pension estimated at €126,000 annually.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/taoiseach-to-get-backbench-td-s-salary-when-he-steps-down-1.3095149

These seem like two separate sums to me. The lump sum is referred to as a Termination or stepping down payment or more commonly a golden handshake.

Six figure lump sum payments were made to a number of former TDs in 2017, according to the records.

This included €113,719 for former Labour Party minister Kathleen Lynch, €109,768 for Fine Gael’s Liam Twomey, and €102,127 for ex-Labour TD Joanna Tuffy.

These lump sum payments would normally have been made in 2016 but were instead paid a year later because the recipients were entitled to a period of termination (step-down) pay after leaving their seats following the general election, or because of their age.

These figures can also include pension payments related to previous public service, if say a politician had previously worked as a teacher, civil servant, or in another state role.

The single largest annual Oireachtas pension is paid to former TD Michael O Kennedy who is in receipt of €57,699 annually. Mr O Kennedy also receives a ministerial pension from the Department of Finance.

A number of familiar names from Fianna Fáil also receive pensions worth in excess of €53,000 from the Oireachtas.

These include Michael Woods, Frank Fahey, Mary O’Rourke, Dermot Ahern, Charlie McCreevy, John O’Donoghue, and Martin Cullen. All would also be entitled to separate ministerial pensions.
https://www.thejournal.ie/politicians-pensions-ireland-4634460-May2019/

IMO, I suggest they get one pension/sum based on years served, in which ever manner they like, lump, pulp or no pulp, twice on months with an R in it or whatever.

James Brown

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Politicians not afraid to call put the problems in our society for fear of being called a racist etc...

If you think race is the problem you are a racist. It's practically the definition. I'm fine with people being honest about that. I know who to avoid or not vote for.

PeadarCo

Wibbling wonder wrote:

Brian Cowen for example "retired" at 55 and gets an enormous pension for life whereas the rest of us that don't have gold plated DB pensions will be lucky to have any level of decent income when we retire. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind in terms of trying to drive any pension reform there. If I could get it you'd better believe I'd take it!

To be fair what Brian Cowen did is something other public servants such as teachers can currently do. I know of one teacher that retired at the same age with a full pension after doing enough years.

The issue of pensions and the public sector goes way beyond TDs. The fact that there is such thing as defined benefit pensions at all these days in the public sector is crazy. There are very few defined benefit pensions these days in the private sector. Most have either been closed and converted to defined contribution or closed to new entrants. It's a ticking time bomb that politicians are afraid to touch because of kickback from employees and unions.

ChikiChiki

A politician that is accountable, upholds the standards for public office, is compassionate and competent. And politicians that don't lie and spin so blatantly to the public when telling the truth is better.

That's all I ask for, that's all I want out of elected representatives.

All the above traits are greatly lacking in Irish politics.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I agree. Some folk get confused or pretend to with the term 'lump sum' though and align it with the pension agreement. The lump sums I've issue with are separate from the pension arrangement. such as:



These seem like two separate sums to me. The lump sum is referred to as a Termination or stepping down payment or more commonly a golden handshake.



r.

Eh, that lump sum is part of the pension scheme, not separate.

Similar to what a Secretary General would get.

I don’t think you have even a basic understanding of pensions.

tayto lover

Honesty
Integrity
100 K wage, no expenses.

blanch152

PeadarCo wrote: »

To be fair what Brian Cowen did is something other public servants such as teachers can currently do. I know of one teacher that retired at the same age with a full pension after doing enough years.

The issue of pensions and the public sector goes way beyond TDs. The fact that there is such thing as defined benefit pensions at all these days in the public sector is crazy. There are very few defined benefit pensions these days in the private sector. Most have either been closed and converted to defined contribution or closed to new entrants. It's a ticking time bomb that politicians are afraid to touch because of kickback from employees and unions.

There have been major changes to the pension scheme in recent years. The Single Pension Scheme reduced the benefits.

One of the things that is forgotten is that independent determinations of public service pay have reduced it to take account of pension arrangements, reduce the pension and you have to increase pay.

In essence, the current system moves the burden from the current taxpayer to the future taxpayer.

PeadarCo

blanch152 wrote:

One of the things that is forgotten is that independent determinations of public service pay have reduced it to take account of pension arrangements, reduce the pension and you have to increase pay.

You don't have to increase pay as you are assuming public servants are incurring the cost of their pension. The recent history of defined benefit pensions in the private sector tells a very different story. Most have been closed due to issues of insolvency.

I know of people in the private sector that lost 6 figure sums from their pension pot as a result of a switch from defined benefit to contribution. The reason they accepted it was that if the pension scheme had remained defined contribution they would have got nothing when they hit retirement 10/15 years later. Under a defined contribution they would get something. Given that public sector is financed out of current expenditure it's a dilemma not faced by public servants. I would agree that the current pension agreements for new entrants are no where anywhere near as generous as current retirees. However anyone who is part of solvent defined benefit pension scheme should thank their lucky stars because they are extremely rare these days.

On my broader point politicians are going to be reluctant to look at their own pension schemes given they are similar to public sector plans. Which themselves are vastly more generous than the private sector.

KaneToad

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Many TD's take a significant pay cut when they become TD's?
Large number of TD's are teachers by profession. MM teacher, Enda Kenny teacher, Michael Noonan teacher, Mary Mitchell O' Connor teacher. Lots more but you get the point. I may be wrong but does the teacher salary scale reach 100k plus expenses?
I would of course be interested to know which TD's are captains of industry which through a selfless act of servitude made such a sacrifice to survive on the pittance our elected representatives are paid.

I would imagine that both Leo Varadkar and Simon Coveney would be earning more in the private sector. As would Michael McGrath...

JohnnyFlash

I’m in Chile at the moment. There’s protests going on about the inequality in the country. Very friendly and well read people. Many of them believe Ireland is the type of country they aspire to. Obviously there’s very many issues, but should we all take a step back and take a look at what we have achieved as a country in less than 100 years since we declared independence?

Number 4 on the UN HDI (human development index).
Number six on the GDP list.
Number 3 on the freedom of the press ranking (which none of you want to seem to pay for).
Number 4 on the GNI rankings.

Maybe we should spend more time acknowledging the work of the politicians and civil service who brought us to this place? And spend more time defending the tenets of social democracy - the finest and most decent system of governance that has ever existed?

Wanderer78

JohnnyFlash wrote:

I’m in Chile at the moment. There’s protests going on about the inequality in the country. Very friendly and well read people. Many of them believe Ireland is the type of country they aspire to. Obviously there’s very many issues, but should we all take a step back and take a look at what we have achieved as a country in less than 100 years since we declared independence?

We do forget our past at times, we certainly have done extremely well for ourselves over the last century, but it is all relative, this is partly due to our political class, but we must take credit ourselves to. Would I be a politican, not a bloody hope, what a crap job, even though the pay could be good, some put in astonishing hours, and put up with a lot of crap, but I'm very grateful they do it, even politicans and parties I dislike. having a functioning political system is critical to having a functioning society, even with its own dysfunctions, I'm very grateful we have it. But unfortunately I do think major elements of our political system are currently going in the wrong direction, the next century is going to be extremely challenging.

PhilOssophy

A lad who can be in 2 places at once......

Odyssey 2005

PhilOssophy wrote: »

A lad who can be in 2 places at once......

Unless you live in Kerry or Mayo,you're out of luck :)

PhilOssophy

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Unless you live in Kerry or Mayo,you're out of luck :)

I dunno, I'd say there's more than that at it....

Odyssey 2005

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I dunno, I'd say there's more than that at it....

I agree. I have the popcorn at the ready

Edit. Who'd have thought Kenny would be in the same boat as HR

LoughNeagh2017

I don't vote in Ulster elections as I am a bitter misanthropist. Why would I get off my sofa to help line some clowns pocket? These politicians wouldn't give two hoots if I necked myself from a tree tomorrow, they would feel more pity for the fireman who would have to cut me down from tree.

The way things work here in Ulster is the politicians go and visit your house, Marin McGuinness was actually at my house once and he admired my mothers garden.

NSAman

Honesty and accountability.

I don’t hold out much hope on either count.

joeguevara

KaneToad wrote: »

I would imagine that both Leo Varadkar and Simon Coveney would be earning more in the private sector. As would Michael McGrath...

Leo is a gp. Be hard to earn 200+ as a GP.

Coveny is a farmer. Rare to have a farmer over 180.

joeguevara

To answer the OP, turn up every day and do the best for the country. Lot of good politicians and a lot bad. Things like not being there but votes cast and expenses claimed are abhorrent.

zell12

We have one the fairest voting systems in the world, PR-STV, ergo the Dail accurately reflects us as a society.
This system keeps politicians on their toes and populist, we get who we vote for

ILoveYourVibes

Honesty. Empathy. Intelligence. Hard work. Innovation. Humanity. Dignity. Realness (as in no bs ).

Oh and an Irish version of the NHS

nthclare

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Honesty. Empathy. Intelligence. Hard work. Innovation. Humanity. Dignity. Realness (as in no bs ).

Oh and an Irish version of the NHS

And stop taking a tenner off everyone every week every year with each and every budget since the current party took over.

joeguevara

I think everyone would be happy if they learned how to use a swing without fcuking adult supervision.