Criminal Inquiry launched into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation

Billy Mays

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

Any predictions??

Hopefully we'll know later today. But the Durham report is the big one. I speculate Horowitz will try to play the peacemaker in his report and will probably try to save the FBI’s reputation in their roll on spying of the Trump campaign... and merely report on serious lapses in judgment. He might also shift blame onto others… former political appointees. I don’t think Barr will have enough from the Horowitz report to issue indictments... as that will be left for when the Durham report comes out.

Cody montana

"Breaking #FoxNews Alert : Long-awaited IG report finds mistakes but no political bias in FBI’s bid to spy on Trump campaign staffer"

Next time, definitely next time.

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

"Breaking #FoxNews Alert : Long-awaited IG report finds mistakes but no political bias in FBI’s bid to spy on Trump campaign staffer"

Next time, definitely next time.

Yeah, no political bias but all the FBI top officials were complete morons. Anybody believe this... I have a bridge in NYC to sell you.

You see the problem is not in identifying political bias, but proving it in a court of law.

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Yeah, no political bias but all the FBI top officials were complete morons. Anybody believe this... I have a bridge in NYC to sell you.

You see the problem is not in identifying political bias, but proving it in a court of law.

So, that's GOP speak for 'Yet another trumpeted investigation by the GOP finding nothing.' Benghazi: Nothing. Horowitz: Nothing.
Ukraine interference in the 2016 election: Nothing.

I could go on. But, popcorn at the ready for the Durham report, surely the GOP witch hunters have to finally turn up something, amiright?

After all that taxpayer money spent and all.

notobtuse

Igotadose wrote: »

So, that's GOP speak for 'Yet another trumpeted investigation by the GOP finding nothing.' Benghazi: Nothing. Horowitz: Nothing.
Ukraine interference in the 2016 election: Nothing.

I could go on. But, popcorn at the ready for the Durham report, surely the GOP witch hunters have to finally turn up something, amiright?

After all that taxpayer money spent and all.

Explain to me WHY Peter Strzok, Lisa Page and others were removed from the FBI and/or Mueller’s investigative team and then explain to me how anyone in their right mind can say no political bias. I admire Horowitz, but something tells me he had ‘for the good of the country’ in mind when he wrote the report.

Cody montana

notobtuse wrote: »

Yeah, no political bias but all the FBI top officials were complete morons. Anybody believe this... I have a bridge in NYC to sell you.

You see the problem is not in identifying political bias, but proving it in a court of law.

A bad day for conspiracies theories.
Definitely next time though.

Billy Mays

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

A bad day for conspiracies theories.
Definitely next time though.

I haven’t read the report. Did they identify the FBI lawyer who manipulated a key investigative document that was critical to the FBI's secretive surveillance FISA application on the Trump campaign, and who this lawyer worked for?

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Explain to me WHY Peter Strzok, Lisa Page and others were removed from the FBI and/or Mueller’s investigative team and then explain to me how anyone in their right mind can say no political bias. I admire Horowitz, but something tells me he had ‘for the good of the country’ in mind when he wrote the report.

So, is Horowitz not in his right mind? Or is it just denial - another GOP investigation, another waste of taxpayer $$, and no results that match your expectations?

What Horowitz concluded is the investigation was legitimate, and the application for the FISA permits to monitor Carter Page was legitimate, too. The Carter Page surveillance didn't lead to conviction for Page - isn't US justice great that way. The investigation has borne tremendous fruit - lots of Trump's campaign and inner circle in jail, and latest is the Obstruction charges in the Mueller report will end up as one of the articles of impeachment.

notobtuse

Igotadose wrote: »

So, is Horowitz not in his right mind? Or is it just denial - another GOP investigation, another waste of taxpayer $$, and no results that match your expectations?

What Horowitz concluded is the investigation was legitimate, and the application for the FISA permits to monitor Carter Page was legitimate, too. The Carter Page surveillance didn't lead to conviction for Page - isn't US justice great that way. The investigation has borne tremendous fruit - lots of Trump's campaign and inner circle in jail, and latest is the Obstruction charges in the Mueller report will end up as one of the articles of impeachment.

I see from reports that Horowitz concluded the information passed to the FBI about George Papadopoulos met the low bar to launch Operation Crossfire Hurricane. LOW BAR to launch an operation into spying on the GOP presidential candidate. Low bar is no bar at this level. The only reason for launching a spying operation, based on known faulty data, into the man who would be president can only be political bias.

And Horowitz wondered why the DOJ didn’t think to develop more stringent standards when it comes to dealing with high-profile federal election campaigns. Anyone with half a brain can figure that out… Political Bias!

And Update...
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1204105392646737921/photo/1

Seems Durham disagrees with Horowitz and will reach a completely different conclusion. And I believe Horowitz can't indict but Durham can, and Durham's report carries much more weight if there were to be indictments, than does Horowitz.

Horowitz now wants to audit ALL of the FISA warrant processes at the FBI. I guess the FBI better hope they find as many glaring problems in other FISA applications or it sure as hellfire would look to be political bias regarding Trump.

MadYaker

Anyone without a biased viewpoint knew that this was the most likely outcome. Same for the Durham report. Durham even showing his own bias by releasing that statement.

notobtuse

MadYaker wrote: »

Anyone without a biased viewpoint knew that this was the most likely outcome. Same for the Durham report. Durham even showing his own bias by releasing that statement.

There is no such thing as an unbiased viewpoint regarding US politics, but there are things called common sense and reason.

Yes, this was the most likely outcome because Horowitz had no right to subpoena, and currently, most of the people who conducted the abuse have been fired and were out of the purview of the Inspector General. So why bother having an investigation if he can only take on face value the lies that were told him?

But the IG report did find that 'officials lied and omitted helpful information to Trump campaign officials who were being spied on but couldn’t determine if the malfeasance was politically motivated?' I guess Horowitz would have determined ducks don’t swim.

But Bill Barr was quick to bring us back into the real world with…

The Inspector General’s report now makes clear that the FBI launched an intrusive investigation of a U.S. presidential campaign on the thinnest of suspicions that, in my view, were insufficient to justify the steps taken. It is also clear that, from its inception, the evidence produced by the investigation was consistently exculpatory. Nevertheless, the investigation and surveillance was pushed forward for the duration of the campaign and deep into President Trump’s administration. In the rush to obtain and maintain FISA surveillance of Trump campaign associates, FBI officials misled the FISA court, omitted critical exculpatory facts from their filings, and suppressed or ignored information negating the reliability of their principal source. …[T]he malfeasance and misfeasance detailed in the Inspector General’s report reflects a clear abuse of the FISA process.

Durham, who is in charge of another and related investigation also quickly issued a statement…

Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing, last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened.

My guess is the Durham investigation is the main reason why the Democrats are rushing the impeachment process in order to get ahead of the damning news of their lawbreaking actions in the 2016 election. They are even trying to change the Constitution in their impeachment process.

They’ve changed the standard of impeachment to fit their narrative. Committee Chairman Nadler wrote that grounds for impeachable offenses in the Nixon and Clinton eras “remain useful points of reference, but no longer reflect the best available learning on questioning relating to presidential impeachment.” Translation… We have no evidence for legitimate grounds of impeachment so we’re changing the rules! Also, they are impeaching Trump not actually based on wrongdoings (that they have no proof of), but because they need to “save the Nation” from Trump remaining in office and who would win the 2020 election if Democrats don’t save us ignorant bastards. This is not the standard for any legal proceeding in the US. Democrats have become the tyrants they pretend they are fighting against. This Democrat run impeachment kangaroo court is an attempt to overthrow the Constitution and rule of law.

The key players in this soft coup (Pelosi, Shiff, Nadler, Obama and his political appointees) should probably be brought up on charges of treason, or at a minimum crimes against our nation and a underhanded coup scheme to oust a duly elected president merely for political reasons.

notobtuse

Regardless, a big win for Nunes who first blew open the FISA abuses. So Nunes was telling the truth and Shiff was lying… as usual. Shiff should be removed from Congress… ASAP!

https://twitter.com/KimStrassel/status/1204200899133919232

James Brown

notobtuse wrote: »

Regardless, a big win for Nunes who first blew open the FISA abuses. So Nunes was telling the truth and Shiff was lying… as usual. Shiff should be removed from Congress… ASAP!

https://twitter.com/KimStrassel/status/1204200899133919232

Maybe we should have Trump removed for lying? I mean if that's the bar? Is it only some lies or certain kinds of lies?

notobtuse

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Maybe we should have Trump removed for lying? I mean if that's the bar? Is it only some lies or certain kinds of lies?

Most of the Trump so-called 'lies' are often his opinion and stretches of the truth... mostly campaign type things all politicians do. Shiff's lies are dangerous and meant to actually hurt people.

Cody montana

notobtuse wrote: »

Most of the Trump so-called 'lies' are often his opinion and stretches of the truth... mostly campaign type things all politicians do. Shiff's lies are dangerous and meant to actually hurt people.

So lies.

notobtuse

Cody montana wrote: »

So lies.

No. Stretches of the truth in politics is not considered lies.

As for Trumps lies, one example is our lovely biased leftist controlled ‘fact checker’ organizations labeled Trump’s claim of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election as a lie.

The facts are Ukraine most certainly did interfere in the US 2016. Unfortunately their preferred candidate didn’t win.

So with this available information how can the biased fact checkers declare it a Trump lie? At most it is a matter of debatable opinion. But lie sounds so much better for those suffering from DTS, right?

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges

Overheal

notobtuse wrote: »

No. Stretches of the truth in politics is not considered lies.

As for Trumps lies, one example is our lovely biased leftist controlled ‘fact checker’ organizations labeled Trump’s claim of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election as a lie.

The facts are Ukraine most certainly did interfere in the US 2016. Unfortunately their preferred candidate didn’t win.

So with this available information how can the biased fact checkers declare it a Trump lie? At most it is a matter of debatable opinion. But lie sounds so much better for those suffering from DTS, right?

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/435029-as-russia-collusion-fades-ukrainian-plot-to-help-clinton-emerges

John Solomon Lol oh geez

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

As for Trumps lies, one example is our lovely biased leftist controlled ‘fact checker’ organizations labeled Trump’s claim of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election as a lie.

That'd be the NSC, right? Where Fiona Hill worked? Who recently said, under oath to Congress:
“This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/21/trump-impeachment-inquiry-fiona-hill-david-holmes-testimony

The facts are Ukraine most certainly did interfere in the US 2016.

If you believe that, I've a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn to sell you.

Overheal

Igotadose wrote: »

That'd be the NSC, right? Where Fiona Hill worked? Who recently said, under oath to Congress:
“This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/21/trump-impeachment-inquiry-fiona-hill-david-holmes-testimony


If you believe that, I've a bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn to sell you.

He could also mean the likes of Politifact and WaPo - as if there is some Force preventing a 'conservative fact-checker' from emerging. I have yet, regrettably, to see a reputable one emerge.

mcmoustache

notobtuse wrote: »

The key players in this soft coup (Pelosi, Shiff, Nadler, Obama and his political appointees) should probably be brought up on charges of treason, or at a minimum crimes against our nation and a underhanded coup scheme to oust a duly elected president merely for political reasons.

There's a lot of nonsense in that post but the one that takes the biscuit is that you consider an action by the Dems that could end with a Republican president to be a coup. Seriously, what kind of coup puts the opposition in charge? It completely defeats the purpose of a coup. You should look up what a coup is to give yourself some idea of what it is that you're talking about.

mcmoustache

notobtuse wrote: »

Regardless, a big win for Nunes who first blew open the FISA abuses. So Nunes was telling the truth and Shiff was lying… as usual. Shiff should be removed from Congress… ASAP!

https://twitter.com/KimStrassel/status/1204200899133919232

Nunes sponsored the FISA reauthorisation of 2017. FISA has always had a low bar and civil libertarians have complained about if for a long time. The republicans could have done something about it but for some reason, chose not to.

notobtuse

mcmoustache wrote: »

There's a lot of nonsense in that post but the one that takes the biscuit is that you consider an action by the Dems that could end with a Republican president to be a coup. Seriously, what kind of coup puts the opposition in charge? It completely defeats the purpose of a coup. You should look up what a coup is to give yourself some idea of what it is that you're talking about.

The FBI both knowingly and fraudulently obtained warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. An FBI lawyer even doctored an email to trick the FISA court into authorizing spying on the Trump campaign. The FBI used the fraudulent Steele dossier as their “central and essential” justification in its wiretap operation of Trump campaign aide Carter Page and therefore communications with other campaign personnel. The FBI knew the dossier was written by a discredited former British spy and had been paid for by Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and also knew there were significant troubles with its reliability... yet never told the court any of this. IG Horowitz’s testimony confirms the Russia-collusion hoax amounted to an attempted coup against Trump and laid the groundwork for impeachment. This is the biggest crime our nation has ever seen.

notobtuse

notobtuse wrote: »

Shiff was lying… as usual. Shiff should be removed from Congress… ASAP!

notobtuse wrote: »

Most of the Trump so-called 'lies' are often his opinion and stretches of the truth....

The mental gymnastics are actually staggering. I can understand poor, uneducated, disenfranchised middle Americans with little to no prospects voting for someone as odious as DJT and his promises. the fact he has a fanclub this side of the Atlantic is actually baffling to me.

notobtuse

Deleted User wrote: »

The mental gymnastics are actually staggering. I can understand poor, uneducated, disenfranchised middle Americans with little to no prospects voting for someone as odious as DJT and his promises. the fact he has a fanclub this side of the Atlantic is actually baffling to me.

Apparently Trump Derangement Syndrome has also spread to that side of the Atlantic.

Billy Mays

notobtuse wrote: »

The FBI both knowingly and fraudulently obtained warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. An FBI lawyer even doctored an email to trick the FISA court into authorizing spying on the Trump campaign. The FBI used the fraudulent Steele dossier as their “central and essential” justification in its wiretap operation of Trump campaign aide Carter Page and therefore communications with other campaign personnel. The FBI knew the dossier was written by a discredited former British spy and had been paid for by Hillary Clinton’s campaign, and also knew there were significant troubles with its reliability... yet never told the court any of this. IG Horowitz’s testimony confirms the Russia-collusion hoax amounted to an attempted coup against Trump and laid the groundwork for impeachment. This is the biggest crime our nation has ever seen.

I can think of at least two bigger ones

notobtuse

Billy Mays wrote: »

I can think of at least two bigger ones

Nope, it’s even bigger than the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and a second term for Barack Obama.

Igotadose

notobtuse wrote: »

Nope, it’s even bigger than the assassination of Abraham Lincoln and a second term for Barack Obama.

Derangement indeed.

I'd suggest you stop obsessing about the black guy. That might fly in the US but not so much here. He won both elections handily. You're unhappy with the results - well, too bad. Get over it. to quote the current acting CoS.

notobtuse

Igotadose wrote: »

Derangement indeed.

I'd suggest you stop obsessing about the black guy. That might fly in the US but not so much here. He won both elections handily. You're unhappy with the results - well, too bad. Get over it. to quote the current acting CoS.

I thought Obama was half white. Yes I'm unhappy with him being elected a second term after such a disastrous first term, but I accepted him as president and didn't want him impeached merely because he won... unlike Democrats of today.