Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559429#Comment_118559429

Brilliant. That particular poster is a god send at times.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559359#Comment_118559359

So to summarize, you reckon a whole lot of things but have no proof to support your claims.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559622#Comment_118559622

This is a discussion forum. Not a court of law. I do not have to prove something or anything. I don't reckon; I know the people. Even if I gave you DNA evidence. affidavits etc. you wouldn't believe me anyway!

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559473#Comment_118559473

I actually have issues with cycling campaigners being too cycling focused too but I guess there has to be a narrow focus on things to get results. I love cycling but I still think PT and walking should be the first priority, and cycling would come with that. That would get the city moving more than any other change.

But I disagree with your take on people pushing for cycleways. They're mainly looking for a way to cycle commute without feeling like they might get killed. Meanwhile the status quo brigade only seem to care that they might not be able to drive door-to-door whenever they leave the house. They'd rather we all spend our lives in traffic than run the risk that they might having to take a bus or walk. You have people like correct horse trying to pretend they're concerned about the old, the poor and the sick but are only really worried about being able to drive to the Prom for lunch if they feel like it; choking up the roads needed by those old, poor and sick people they pretend to care about. You can't cycle for more than 10 mins in this city without feeling like someone came close to running you over. That shouldn't be the case.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559538#Comment_118559538

What are you cynical about? They are parents, I've met plenty of the kids. The lifestyle choice would be wanting their kids to be safe, not spending their own lives stuck in traffic and maybe getting some fresh air and exercise (all good things IMO). And nobody thinks of being a cycling campaigner as appealing. Even I'm wary of them 😂

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559081#Comment_118559081

And this is the response... I said arrogance and you have just seen it... DaCor you are your own worst enemy with comments like that.. Refusing to engage with actual concerns..

That was a tongue in cheek response to that poster. I literally copied and pasted his response to an earlier post of mine where I did fully engage with each point he raised

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559231#Comment_118559231

I was going to say like the comment section on Journal.ie but your analogy works too.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559044#Comment_118559044

Don't need too... The Councillors are doing that and showing us the results...

I said beforehand that this was hair-brained and it looks like I am vindicated...

Throwing up a cycle-lane anywhere and then proclaiming that if you don't want it you want to kill the planet... People don't react well to that... It is just juvenile...

Councillors are going to be very careful going forward trusting the Cycling lobby. Well Done, total over reach..

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559059#Comment_118559059

You know nobody believes that... Temporary is a very loose term to the City Executive...

If this is a trail, where are the goals, where are the target to deem it a success or failure?

Not there... What kind of fools do ye take us for... I find annoying that you think we are so stupid that we don't see a moving goalpost when we see it...

We know full well what will happen, they would be a cycle event on a fine Sunday and it would proclaimed a success no matter how empty it would be for the rest of the time.

Just look at some of the grandstanding here... Where was there the concerns for the residents of Salthill concerns?

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118559159#Comment_118559159

Councillors are deserting it in droves...

Got to love your persecution complex there... So you are saying the 17 - 1 vote was actually a plan by the City Council to actually stop cycling...

The two options which were great when came out are now terrible...

Sorry but the cycle lobby push without listening to the consequences is what got people's backs up... The Executive were terrible...

At the end of the day it was a trial, trials have tangible goals and targets... This didn't...

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560174#Comment_118560174

I'm not sure you understand the difference between the councilors and the GCC. Councilors are elected but have no real control over the decisions within the GCC. The engineers, etc. decide what's happening in terms of planning and infrastructure and don't have to listen to the elected councilors at all as far as I can tell. So the councilors voted for the cycleway, which then went to GCC and they threw together these couple of plans. Never heard anyone say they were great. Can you point me towards anyone saying that? Probably not.

Ironic that you're on about persecution complexes when you seem to constantly worried about some big bad cycling lobby out to force you onto 2 wheels. It's just some regular people looking for safer cycling in the city. And as has already been explained to you, it's not a trial, it's a temporary test with specific start and end dates (does it help if I do it in bold?). Targets and objectives would be nice but GCC aren't big on those at the best of times. Hopefully they'll take lessons from it and come back with something better in the future but we are currently only being given 2 options.

And just to state clearly (since a lot of people here seem to living in fear of some global cyclist cabal out to get them), I'm not really a big fan of this plan. It's nearly useless to me personally since there's no infrastructure to get to and from it and I'm not a big "Prom guy". I go to Salthill village regularly enough but that this won't make much difference to that trip. I think that cars parking in nearby estates will be a real issue but one that needs to be tackled by parking regulations and enforcement, not sticking our heads in the sand and continuing to do more of the same/nothing. I also don't think Salthill businesses will get as much benefit as they might because of the issue I mentioned above of getting to/from the area. But this is what's on offer and I don't see what the big hoopla about trying it out is. We've sat in traffic for long enough. I can't understand why everyone is so obsessed with continuing to do it.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560389#Comment_118560389

"But this is what's on offer and I don't see what the big hoopla about trying it out is. We've sat in traffic for long enough. I can't understand why everyone is so obsessed with continuing to do it."

But was it that bad in Salthill? Other than when GAA matches are on and maybe some weekends in Summer, the traffic isn't actually that bad. The traffic is bad though regularly on Threadneedle and Taylor's Hill and this was going to make that situation a lot worse.

Many photos have been posted of cars in Salthill saying they ruin the view, but to be frank, once you're on the Prom they're behind you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560174#Comment_118560174

Yes, thats exactly it,impose something and pretend its a covid measure and temporary and then leave it in place just makes locals mistrust officials and politicans.

We had online meetings organised by local politicans and the level of anger was unreal,I really think any infrastructure put in would have been ripped up.

One of the propsals would have meant hundreds of cars would be diverting down narrow residential roads that led directly to about five schools in the area and it would have turned large housing estates into a cul de sac that Gardai and emergency services couldnt reach.

It defies belief how any official could think residents would take plans like this lying down.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560068#Comment_118560068

You're wrong again on that one. The exec were very clear to the councillors that this is temporary and not a trial, they wanted that clearly defined and understood as they are different things.

You don't have a clue about my position on this or what groups and people I've discussed it with before forming my own personal submission. You don't know to what extent I was critical of the options and how radically I think it should be changed.

You're just running with the little story in your head that anyone that's pro cycle infrastructure is obsessively so and is somehow anti-car and/or has a green agenda. Maybe that makes life easier for you to snap people to limited simplistic profiles.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560389#Comment_118560389

What you say is the GCC , I call the executive... And I think both of us pretty unimpressed by them... I thought they would have least rang up the Emergency Services, Schools and Golf Club and got there views first... Maybe a discussion with the few business on the Blackrock -Barna Rd section... B They are just terrible and if their plan was everyone to have a fight and nothing happen, well they achieved that...They are generally not from Galway and they seem to care less...

The Executive/GCC seemed to have driven this so badly they have pitted groups against each other where they could have been far better... I personally think they don't care, they have an arrogance for doing these kind of things... Thee was no real discussion before these options were thrown out there... Then they did a great job pissing off a large section by voting No change will not count. I was all on for a trial of Dr Mannix road and a serious look at extending the prom and giving more area to walkers and cyclists. Add in a tidal pool as well... Join Millar Lane and Threadneedle Road cycleways...

My big ambition would be a walkway around Rusheen Bay... Would be an almost unique experience in Ireland where they could have weekly running races where people can post a time and try and beat it...

I hope you can see I want actually more cycle lanes than was asked for but I know removing parking from the Prom is very precious to a lot of people... IT is the wrong way to approach it... Money needs to be spent and the Executive have just dumped a load of good will...

9320

The same arguments were used ahead of the Coastal Mobility Route from Blackrock to Sandycove in Dublin - there were issues the first couple of weeks with the new one way systems etc but people managed to cope, people found other routes to drive on, amazingly some people (thousands actually) decided to cycle instead of drive thus reducing traffic not increasing it. And many more people started spending time in Dun Laoghaire and Blackrock and spending money there.

https://www.tudublin.ie/explore/news/tu-dublin-assessment-finds-blackrock-main-street-works-effective.html

Why is Galway so different? The same arguments are used the whole time, they were used for Shop Street pedestrianisation, for Grafton St, Henry St in Dublin as well the two most expensive streets for commercial rents in the country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560488#Comment_118560488

yer man!

I for one think it's worth trying out in any case. At least at the end of it we will have some results and one side of the group will be silenced.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560485#Comment_118560485

It is busy but not overly busy on the prom... It is heavily used without been the over used... The big thing about the Prom is a big leveller, any one can pop down for a walk, that what this was taking away and no amount of explaining to them this was making them listen...

Again I think the Executive are the root problem here... Some say they deliberately wanted this, I would disagree, they have shown us time and time again they are way to incompetent to do that...

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560605#Comment_118560605

No we won't... There is not targets or goals set up... No cost benefit structure in place going forward... This is if you pro or anti which ever, a incompetent mess already...

Trials are meant to have a measurement criteria... We are supposed to see the costs... There are 8 guys going to loose there jobs in one petrol station, has that been accounted for... This just setting up for a bigger argument...

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560605#Comment_118560605

You see the problem with that view is that a lot (most maybe) of people believe that the "results" will be whatever the cyclists want them to be, aided and abetted by the cycling Mayor and the "Green" Minister Ms. Naughton.

People have no confidence in the cycling lobby to be honest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560583#Comment_118560583

Do you mind me asking do you live in the area.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560488#Comment_118560488

I was trying to figure that out... Politicians aren't that dumb to be fooled like this... We live in the the area, anyone should know the challenges that this would bring if you live in the area..

One person said in Salthill last week that the Executive were pissed that the councillors told what them what to do so they came up with these two proposals... This could be partially true, then against the Executive could actually think these options are reasonable...

Even if they opened up the Bailey Point car park (if possible) they could have naturalised some of the concerns..Too late for that now..

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560583#Comment_118560583

I really can't understand how people are drawing an equivalance between Blackrock (Dublin) and Salthill. That road in Blackrock has been one way for well over a decade anyway. The only difference seems to be that a cycle lane has been added to one side of it. Doesn't make a whit of difference to what was there already.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560554#Comment_118560554

Actually read my posts and you will see I am not anti cycling... I actually want to spend way more money on putting in something permeant and right... I am just anti this...

The City Exec are bunch of incompetent liars... They are truly awful.. This has been set up to be a mess... Without a clear set of targets and goals this is going to end up into a disaster for both sides... This is the creation of chaos...

We probably don't disagree that much but this stupid cycleway is just thrown out there to cause division... I have been working Projects all my life and you can see this trail as a political pawn...

yer man!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560638#Comment_118560638

Couldn't a bicycle counter be put in place to determine the usage? They have them in Dublin on several routes.

8 guys are for a fact going to lose their jobs in the petrol station? That's a certainty yeah? one way traffic will prevent 100% of cars going that petrol station? Sounds like a bad plan if 100% of cars can't get to it alright.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560744#Comment_118560744

If it doesn't prevent 100% they will have to comeback through the top of Threadneedle road...

This is the only Petrol stations (two beside each other) in Knocknacarra and half of Salthill... Again ill thought out...

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560485#Comment_118560485

Ya I never thought it had the biggest need for one but I don't pass through it at busy times so don't feel qualified to comment. From a leisure point of view is a bit mad that such an amenity doesn't have space for cycling, but I was never into scenic cycling so it again doesn't effect me personally.

I don't think this cycleway is really part of the effort to improve Galway traffic congestion. It needs cycle links to other areas to really make a difference there.

9320

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560662#Comment_118560662

Living temporarily in Barna (6 months total) I'm from Dublin and will be returning there in April. Couldn't believe the lack of cycling infrastructure between Barna and City Centre - totally non-existent. Am a confident enough cyclist, have only cycled once into town from Barna, came home via Salthill.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560712#Comment_118560712

I never said you were anti cycling.

9320

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560672#Comment_118560672

Which road? You're mistaken, if you're talking about Maretimo Terrace yes (that's a tiny tiny proportion of the route) but Blackrock village was made partially one-way and Seapoint Avenue to Sandycove was always two-way for cars until the Cycle Track was brought in, it has made a huge difference.

I think most issues in this cycleway stems from the wording of the motion that was raised by the mayor and councillors supported.

The exec's plans meet the criteria of the motion. What they should have asked for was a cycleway from A to B with a list of requirements (maintain two-way traffic etc) if that's a requirement on them backing it further along the process.

?Cee?view

Must be my memory deceiving me. Not inconceivable! Anyway, even if it was two way, it’s still difficult to see how you can compare Blackrock village to Salthill prom

?Cee?view

You’d want a high level of confidence to cycle on stretches of that road. I really think the the cycle lanes should have been added on stretches like this first before even considering the most iconic stretch of road in Galway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561103#Comment_118561103

I meant are you living in South Dublin near the coastal mobility route.

What has the coastal mobility route made a huge difference to.

It has caused a lot of traffic congestion on surrounding roads and its pretty empty most of the day.

I mean its mostly men who cycle and they are at work during the week,the children are in school so really who is going to be cycling on a windy and freezing seafront.

As I said the traffic through Monkstown village is just awful,just log jammed all day long.It was completely snarled up recently, a bus and a truck trying to pass each other,I got off the bike and walked, not sure how things resolved themselves.

The other issue is how desolate the seafront is in the evening at Seapoint, I used to like walking there at night but its empty now. People used to park their cars and walk to the beach from Seapoint Avenue but its deserted once it gets dark.

Trying to get into the cycle lane coming from Dunlaoghaire is difficult too, you have to cycle on the right of moving cars and then cross the road into the cycle lane,as I said I much prefer to cycle with the traffic and this isnt possible now as what space is left for cars is barely the width of a car.

So people of Galway be very careful of changes proposed,really think it through because once the change is implemented, "trialled" you will have to live with it and the cycling lobby will belittle your concerns,they have got what they wanted and they couldnt care less how it impacts anyone but themselves.

?Cee?view

“they couldn’t care less how it impacts anyone but themselves”

Unfortunately that’s already proven to be the case in Galway. They closed off access (except for bikes) to a local school and gloat online about it as if it’s a success. Their boast is that up to 60 bikes sometimes cycle to the school out of a school of approximately 600 pupils. This is touted as a great success as it’s an increase of 100% or some such crap. They couldn’t care less about the other 90% of pupils who don’t or can’t cycle. And realistically, you’ll usually see about 20 to 30 bikes outside the school on most days.

These are mostly the same people pushing to ruin the Prom.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118560839#Comment_118560839

This is the bit I agree with you...

I started this whole thing by asking was this for Traffic Congestion or Leisure... I got the 'both' answer...

It doesn't really stack...

If it is for traffic there are better places like Dr Mannix road and a link to Millar lane...

If it is for leisure then I say the tradition of parking on the Prom and going for a walk has been well established (and extremely popular) and why does cycle lane get precedence over that?

I am not saying it should never happen, I actually prefer to increase the prom into the sea and give the extra space over to bikes...

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561300#Comment_118561300

Which would mean Dr Mannix would be a runner linked to Millars lane... It would have cost more but it would link Barna Woods to the schools and town... It would have had a major cycle rout going through the heart of Salthill Residential linked to Knocknacarra...

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561504#Comment_118561504

The Jes primary? They didn't "close off access except for bikes". They stopped people driving their kids to the door of the school. There was 100's of cars descending on the place three times a day. It was chaos and heading towards disaster. Drivers were constantly frustrated and distracted. Now it's 100's of happy headed kids walking, cycling, scooting, whatever their way to the door.

This cycling paranoia and feeling victimized is utterly bizarre. Instead of faux concern for mommys darlings now having to walk a bit, did you ever worry about the kids that couldn't be driven to the door of the school and had to risk getting hit by cars every day walking to and from the school?

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561986#Comment_118561986

Very little needs to be done with Dr Mannix in my opinion, its the linkage to get from Millars Lane onto Threadneedle Road that you mention here alright that is missing and is crucial. It is a major barrier - lots of examples of this all over the City - many estates especially those built last 30yrs or so just need minor changes to create a walking and cycling network within the local area's.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118561986#Comment_118561986

Can we tease this out a bit?

Dr Mannix Road is a 900m stretch that's disconnected from other cycleways. How does the full connection look?

A few questions to tease it out...

1. Are you still talking about a two-way segregated route? Or do you mean for two 1 way segregated routes? Or no segregation (painted line)?

Some of these depend on what you're thinking for #1...

2. How do you intend to connect to Millers Lane? Through Manor Drive? How do you bridge that gap along Kingston Rd to Threadneedle? Appears to be limited space for new lanes without making car traffic one-way.

3. How do cyclists go from Kingston to Threadneedle? (currently no right turn)

4. Do you expect an issue with residents on Dr Mannix Rd having an issue with on-street parking being removed outside their homes? They have off-street parking but on-street is also used. (btw I don't have an issue with this, it's a public road)

5. How do you connect through on the other end to the city? How do you facilitate cycle lanes on Devon Park? And on Lwr Salthill Road - do you remove/reduce on-street parking?

6. The big (and growing) population center of Knocknacarra is Cappagh, Ballymoneen and Clybaun roads. If someone is at Clybaun Road, how do they connect through to the city using this?

All the above can be solved, just wondering how far you've considered it, from the practicalities of linking it up.

Is definitely a great road for a cycleway but my initial thoughts are a secondary route to further link up schools and residential areas rather than a primary route.

Dr Mannix Road itself has 6 junctions within the 900m and loads of driveways that would cross the cycleway, it is a quieter road but difficult to get the same level of segregation as a coastal route.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563986#Comment_118563986

No, you dont live on the road bso you wont have an issue with removing parking.

Do you have on street parking outside your house.

A lot of on street parking has been removed where I live and this parking was used by low paid employees who serve me in local shops.

It was used by people commuting to town.

It was used by people with disabilities who could park right beside the park they wanted to enjoy..

It was used by parents with young children, again it provided accessibility to the park.

The space was taken to create a two way cycle lane that is not used so basically a third of a road was taken to be left lying empty.

The cyclists who want to cycle opposite the cycle lane with the traffic are now squashed up against a kerb with drivers blowing horns at them.

I posted this and I was rounded on and abused by the cycling lobby,they said it doesnt happen,it happens to me everytime I cycle on that road.

I have actually cycled less since the cycle lane went in, I cant be bothered with crossing back and forth out of two way cycle lanes or the alternative or having horns blown at me,its easier to just drive or walk.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563867#Comment_118563867

"it was chaos and heading towards disaster" You're hilarious! Was it also the site of the rogue SUVs mowing down kids? The same cars are now just dropping their kids elsewhere.

"...mommys (sic) darlings now having to walk a bit" - what about the parents who have small children who can't yet walk; or the parents who have to get on to a job by a certain time and haven't the luxury of parking away from the school, walking the kids to school, getting back to their car, and trying to then get to work on time; or the parents who have to get to more than one school; or the parents who don't want their kids soaked if it's raining? You couldn't give a damn about them could you?

As for the "risk" of getting hit. How many were actually hit? Were any? Have a look at the accident report statistics for the area.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118563985#Comment_118563985

Surely a lane could go through the back of St. Enda's secondary or the Golf Club. Create a bike crossing (is there such a thing, and if not why not?), across Kingston Road to link with it. Seems like a logical and great idea to me.

yer man!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564238#Comment_118564238

Have you heard of Whataboutism?

Private Joker

The cycleway is being discussed on pat kenny in a few minutes

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564347#Comment_118564347

Yes, the whataboutism is the kids getting hit by cars. It wasn't happening.

The parents suffering from this are the reality. The examples I gave are all real. The bikists couldn't care less about them.

Approx 600 kids in the school. Less than 10% now cycle. This is touted as success by the biking lobby.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564401#Comment_118564401

Pat just said turning Salthill into a one-way carway will result in 50% retail business losses!

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564238#Comment_118564238

Are you honestly making the point that there wasn't enough children being hit by cars to warrant the school wanting a change? Is there a number you think is the appropriate amount? Because that's basically what you're saying here. Ironically that's exactly what caused Holland to prioritise alternatives to driving way back in the 70's but I'm sure they had people moaning about things not being too bad then too.

There's a wonderful invention called a buggy for kids that can't yet walk (it's like a small car but without the engine). If it's an older kid with a disability then they can be driven. If they don't have time to get their kids to school on time then they're not leaving the house on time. It's a tough slog but the rest of us manage it. And it's not the 5mins walking to the school that's your biggest delay. It's sitting in all the traffic with the other stressed out parents trying to drive their kids right to the school door. If it's raining put on the waterproofs. We live in a wet country and kids like to be outside. And spare me your faux outrage on behalf of the weak examples you've made up. I'm making a point about childrens safety and you're painting inconveniences as world ending issues and trying to paint yourself as hero of the downtrodden.

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564404#Comment_118564404

It's not a cycling initiative. It's a car free initiative.

You've a weird paranoia about cyclists. Might be time to talk to someone. Maybe also bring up these imaginary groups of suffering people you're seeing everywhere

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118564526#Comment_118564526

Sit down, breathe, relax. It's ok. We can see bikes and fighting the good fight give your life meaning.

I've no paranoia about cyclists. I do have a healthy disrespect for cycling "advocates" and organisations in Galway, you know, the type of people who want to cycle everywhere and make up risks (rogue SUVs, car chaos etc.) where there's no evidence that any exists to justify actually causing chaos with their little crusades. And then dismiss everyone elses real concerns as imaginary.