Galway traffic

ben.schlomo

gordongekko wrote: »

My posts are being misrepresented as botched logic. If you're a problem with the logic contact the green party.

Keeping digging Gord.

John_Rambo

Thargor wrote: »

I wasn't apologising, I was being sarcastic, you can tell because I quoted the exact posts which you had just lied about never saying. Other people were laughing at your twisted logic aswell, have a read back over it and try to understand.

You said the Greens are shutting down the buses. They're not.

You got called out on it. Get over it.

gordongekko

Thargor wrote: »

I wasn't apologising, I was being sarcastic, you can tell because I quoted the exact posts which you had just lied about never saying. Other people were laughing at your twisted logic aswell, have a read back over it and try to understand.

So I guess you'd say I misinterpreted or misrepresented your post. Just as you did mine

?Cee?view

gordongekko wrote: »

So I guess you'd say I misinterpreted or misrepresented your post. Just as you did mine

Lads. Relax.

I think that we can all agree that during the tenure of a "Green" Transport Minister and during the greatest budget giveaway for generations, the Transport Minister at best had his eye off the ball, or at worst didn't see the importance of leveraging his influence as the only shareholder in CIE to ensure that the body had access to funding to continue its public transport remit.

cooperguy

cooperguy wrote: »

You cant close bridges and roads in the centre to private traffic in the centre of town without adding another crossing. Thats the point of it

Umm, that's happening already. The salmon weir will be closed to private cars from 2022

timmyntc

?Cee?view wrote: »

Lads. Relax.

I think that we can all agree that during the tenure of a "Green" Transport Minister and during the greatest budget giveaway for generations, the Transport Minister at best had his eye off the ball, or at worst didn't see the importance of leveraging his influence as the only shareholder in CIE to ensure that the body had access to funding to continue its public transport remit.

Why though?
BE only axed its expressway services, the normal services on those routes are still going.

BE went out on their own attempting to run expressway services - they arent PSO routes, so if they are no longer financially feasible then that sucks but thats how it goes. Thats the market working properly.

Important routes that the govt wont want to see stopped will be paid for by the govt (public service obligation). These axed routes were not important, especially given the level of competition from private operators.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you even live in Ireland???

Yes, I do and despise the fatalism. If you have a problem with keeping the law and order please write to the City Council, Garda or your TD as well regarding this. There is many options which can be explored. Or run a campaign. If you don't raise the issue and just accept "it won't get better, because we live in Ireland" then what else can I say. If you let people **** on your head - people will **** on your head. It's as simple as that. Giving up on law enforcement due to some sort of fatalism is insane.

Ruhanna

cooperguy wrote: »

Because it allows you to implement the galway transport plan and implement the best of the public transport...

This is from the school of illogical thought that claims there is nowhere to put public transport without a bypass.

And it raises the same (typically unanswered) questions yet again.

If a bypass or outer ring road is built, who will use it, and who will use "the best of the public transport" that will allegedly appear afterwards?

cooperguy wrote: »

You cant close bridges and roads in the centre to private traffic in the centre of town without adding another crossing. Thats the point of it

Why not? Excluding private cars reduces or eliminates waste of precious road space, and increases the transport capacity of existing infrastructure. If commuters still want to use the same bridge then they can walk, cycle or use public transport, which is much more efficient.

Thargor

gordongekko wrote: »

So I guess you'd say I misinterpreted or misrepresented your post. Just as you did mine

No misinterpretation or misrepresentation required, you made a seriously stupid statement even by your usual low standards and got called out on it, here it is, you can lie about not saying it all you like:

gordongekko wrote: »

The greens are cancelling the bloody busses. They should be horses out of politics all they want to do is raise taxes.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Where?

gordongekko wrote: »

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058117249

Bus Éireann to shut many inter-city routes due to financial pressures
Services between Dublin and Cork, Belfast, Limerick and Galway will come to an end

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

Why not? Excluding private cars reduces or eliminates waste of precious road space, and increases the transport capacity of existing infrastructure. If commuters still want to use the same bridge then they can walk, cycle or use public transport, which is much more efficient.

And totally impractical for large numbers of people for an array of reasons.

Jazmin Harsh Gold

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

And totally impractical for large numbers of people for an array of reasons.

True and these folks will not be excluded, they just need to take an alternate route

cooperguy

Ruhanna wrote: »

This is from the school of illogical thought that claims there is nowhere to put public transport without a bypass.

And it raises the same (typically unanswered) questions yet again.

If a bypass or outer ring road is built, who will use it, and who will use "the best of the public transport" that will allegedly appear afterwards?

It's not unanswered, you just choose to ignore the answer. The many people who will not be served by the public transport due to the sprawling nature of our suburban and rural development will use it. The people who live near the bus routes can use the bus. It is not possible to run buses at a high enough frequency to be useful through all the west side of Galway and out into the rural areas (which is why they dont run a bus over the Quincentennial bridge, there isnt the demand to run a bus throughout the day and partial day services arent useful enough to be used by a large enough population either)

Ruhanna wrote: »

Why not? Excluding private cars reduces or eliminates waste of precious road space, and increases the transport capacity of existing infrastructure. If commuters still want to use the same bridge then they can walk, cycle or use public transport, which is much more efficient.

Which is entirely impractical for a whole host of people

Deleted User wrote: »

True and these folks will not be excluded, they just need to take an alternate route

which will be vastly over capacity. The bus routes do not cater for everyone needing to travel through and around the city. Despite lovely pictures of how many people fit in a bus compared to a car

cooperguy

cooperguy wrote: »

which will be vastly over capacity. The bus routes do not cater for everyone needing to travel through and around the city. Despite lovely pictures of how many people fit in a bus compared to a car

As you are probably aware, most of the road network in Galway is already over capacity for significant portions of the day. In addition as often occurs when major changes are made to the road network, significant portions of traffic disappear as a portion of motorists find alternatives to be better options than sitting in traffic.

As you are also probably aware, the bus routes do not need to cater for EVERYONE, but those who are catered for will find it a more efficient option than driving.

Those lovely pictures you refer to neatly capture the logic behind the GTS and the realignment of priorities for transport in Galway City from the private motorists being the top priority to now being at the bottom.

AndrewJRenko

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

And totally impractical for large numbers of people for an array of reasons.

Important reasons like "I wanna wear deck shoes, and they might get wet" - a sound basis for transport planning if ever I saw one.

Mrs OBumble

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Mrs Bumble what is it that you see as an optimum city centre from a transport perspective? Do you think the pre-covid traffic was just fine? Do you believe in any limits for cars anywhere in the city centre? Do you believe the pedestrianisation of Shop St was a good thing or should we open it up to car access?

I don't believe the city centre (defined as the area inside the pink line below) has major traffic issues at all, beyond restricting parking on Eglinton St to facilitate bus-flow and restoring the bus-lane on Forster Street (thankfully done - as we are seeing now, the larger pubs there have more-than-adequate beer gardens, they don't need to take over the street to provide outdoor dining). And with an eye for growth, the proposed coach-station to Headford Rd bus-corridor.

Yes, pedestrianisation of Shop St et al was a good thing, even though it made these street pretty non-viable for living-above-the-shop.

But the need for high-street space for retail has been shrinking for years, and and now Covid has rapidly accelerated changes in retail patterns. Galway will be struggling to fill the existing main-street retail areas, without needing to extend the party-zone to the side streets.

On principle, I wouldn't support pedestrianisation for any street where there are people living at ground-floor level. This means Merchants Rd, St Augustine, Middle, Lower Abbeygate. While removing cars might(*) make for a nicer daytime environment, removing the structure and passive surveillance they provide isn't a good idea for night-time. The only exception is perhaps Lombard / Market Streets - there is A little street-level housing there, but the owners actually wanted to convert it to short-term lets.

(*) Might because "pedestrianisation" tends to mean pedestrians + bicycles. I see from Shop St that when bicycles in Ireland are unconstrainted by larger vehicles, they get more aggressive and unpredictable. Yes, I know there are lots of lovely videos from the Netherlands showing bicycle harmony. But we don't have the social attitudes that Dutch people have. Trying to apply their solution in our cultural-context won't work.

If it was responsible for addressing Galway traffic, the city-centre is not where I would be focussing my changes at all. It's just not where the problems are, apart from a very short time around Christmas (which nature may just have solved for us).

zell12

Three of four Corrib bridges feed into that highlighted area, of course there are major traffic issues!
Plus it has much space devoted to car parking facilities which are a destination for some traffic

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't believe the city centre (defined as the area inside the pink line below) has major traffic issues at all, beyond restricting parking on Eglinton St to facilitate bus-flow and restoring the bus-lane on Forster Street (thankfully done - as we are seeing now, the larger pubs there have more-than-adequate beer gardens, they don't need to take over the street to provide outdoor dining). And with an eye for growth, the proposed coach-station to Headford Rd bus-corridor.

Yes, pedestrianisation of Shop St et al was a good thing, even though it made these street pretty non-viable for living-above-the-shop.

But the need for high-street space for retail has been shrinking for years, and and now Covid has rapidly accelerated changes in retail patterns. Galway will be struggling to fill the existing main-street retail areas, without needing to extend the party-zone to the side streets.

On principle, I wouldn't support pedestrianisation for any street where there are people living at ground-floor level. This means Merchants Rd, St Augustine, Middle, Lower Abbeygate. While removing cars might(*) make for a nicer daytime environment, removing the structure and passive surveillance they provide isn't a good idea for night-time. The only exception is perhaps Lombard / Market Streets - there is A little street-level housing there, but the owners actually wanted to convert it to short-term lets.

(*) Might because "pedestrianisation" tends to mean pedestrians + bicycles. I see from Shop St that when bicycles in Ireland are unconstrainted by larger vehicles, they get more aggressive and unpredictable. Yes, I know there are lots of lovely videos from the Netherlands showing bicycle harmony. But we don't have the social attitudes that Dutch people have. Trying to apply their solution in our cultural-context won't work.

If it was responsible for addressing Galway traffic, the city-centre is not where I would be focussing my changes at all. It's just not where the problems are, apart from a very short time around Christmas (which nature may just have solved for us).

How many cars are there driving down Middle St, St Augustine St and Lower Abbeygate St at night?

City centres are moving away from retail to cafes, restaurants, etc. They all benefit greatly from increased outdoor space and people walking around the area.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If it was responsible for addressing Galway traffic, the city-centre is not where I would be focussing my changes at all. It's just not where the problems are, apart from a very short time around Christmas (which nature may just have solved for us).

Afraid you are wrong wrong wrong. I used to be surprised but not any more as you project an image of been a Public Transport advocate/supporter. Perhaps you dont have any contacts with said Public Transport operators? Ask any of the bus operators in Galway City and they will tell you that the City Centre is affecting operations along with areas outside this very small area that you highlight.

xckjoo

cooperguy wrote: »

It's not unanswered, you just choose to ignore the answer. The many people who will not be served by the public transport due to the sprawling nature of our suburban and rural development will use it. The people who live near the bus routes can use the bus. It is not possible to run buses at a high enough frequency to be useful through all the west side of Galway and out into the rural areas (which is why they dont run a bus over the Quincentennial bridge, there isnt the demand to run a bus throughout the day and partial day services arent useful enough to be used by a large enough population either)

I could be wrong but I think Bus Eireann have said the reason they won't increase routes or run directly over the Quincenteneray is the lack of dedicated bus lanes/infrastructure.

?Cee?view

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I don't believe the city centre (defined as the area inside the pink line below) has major traffic issues at all, beyond restricting parking on Eglinton St to facilitate bus-flow and restoring the bus-lane on Forster Street (thankfully done - as we are seeing now, the larger pubs there have more-than-adequate beer gardens, they don't need to take over the street to provide outdoor dining). And with an eye for growth, the proposed coach-station to Headford Rd bus-corridor.

Yes, pedestrianisation of Shop St et al was a good thing, even though it made these street pretty non-viable for living-above-the-shop.

But the need for high-street space for retail has been shrinking for years, and and now Covid has rapidly accelerated changes in retail patterns. Galway will be struggling to fill the existing main-street retail areas, without needing to extend the party-zone to the side streets.

On principle, I wouldn't support pedestrianisation for any street where there are people living at ground-floor level. This means Merchants Rd, St Augustine, Middle, Lower Abbeygate. While removing cars might(*) make for a nicer daytime environment, removing the structure and passive surveillance they provide isn't a good idea for night-time. The only exception is perhaps Lombard / Market Streets - there is A little street-level housing there, but the owners actually wanted to convert it to short-term lets.

(*) Might because "pedestrianisation" tends to mean pedestrians + bicycles. I see from Shop St that when bicycles in Ireland are unconstrainted by larger vehicles, they get more aggressive and unpredictable. Yes, I know there are lots of lovely videos from the Netherlands showing bicycle harmony. But we don't have the social attitudes that Dutch people have. Trying to apply their solution in our cultural-context won't work.

If it was responsible for addressing Galway traffic, the city-centre is not where I would be focussing my changes at all. It's just not where the problems are, apart from a very short time around Christmas (which nature may just have solved for us).

Thank you for setting out the actual position logically and cogently.

You will at best be ignored here, but more likely vilified, as the inherent and conscious bias of most contributors here does not allow them to see the truth in what you state.

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, pedestrianisation of Shop St et al was a good thing, even though it made these street pretty non-viable for living-above-the-shop.

On principle, I wouldn't support pedestrianisation for any street where there are people living at ground-floor level.

Why would anyone sane live on a ground level of a two story building in town here? That's destined to be occupied by students & hippies. Nobody normal, say with a family, would want to live there, everyone knows that it means noise etc. Many of these are very old (some even Georgian) buildings, which must be wet, cold and damp.

In other cities, in the countries not that far away but not on this island, you would literally have nobody living in places like these - it's all retail and offices. Why would you live on the ground floor??? People do live in 1st, 2nd and higher floors in those cities though. The problem in Galway (and most of Ireland) is that it's all two story buildings and the ground floor is too low for some reason - it's not suitable for being used as residential really. This sort of situation literally doesn't exist in cities in Europe where you have 4+ stories in town centres and the ground floor is much higher and also generally not used for residential purposes.

Anyway, city centre living has its advantages and disadvantages. You seem to want to have all the advantages of city centre, no disadvantages and make it like suburban living. That's unrealistic.

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Thank you for setting out the actual position logically and cogently.

You will at best be ignored here, but more likely vilified, as the inherent and conscious bias of most contributors here does not allow them to see the truth in what you state.

It's not really logical though. It's emotive and rooted in fear of change. Car traffic isn't a great crime prevention technique and the whole reason people are justifying the ring road is for an extra river crossing that isn't in the city (within the zone she outlined). If there's no cause of traffic congestion within the city centre then how is there an issue with crossing the river by car?

Wompa1

McGiver wrote: »

Why would anyone sane live on a ground level of a two story building in town here? That's destined to be occupied by students & hippies. Nobody normal, say with a family, would want to live there, everyone knows that it means noise etc. Many of these are very old (some even Georgian) buildings, which must be wet, cold and damp.

In other cities, in the countries not that far away but not on this island, you would literally have nobody living in places like these - it's all retail and offices. Why would you live on the ground floor??? People do live in 1st, 2nd and higher floors in those cities though. The problem in Galway (and most of Ireland) is that it's all two story buildings and the ground floor is too low for some reason - it's not suitable for being used as residential really. This sort of situation literally doesn't exist in cities in Europe where you have 4+ stories in town centres and the ground floor is much higher and also generally not used for residential purposes.

Anyway, city centre living has its advantages and disadvantages. You seem to want to have all the advantages of city centre, no disadvantages and make it like suburban living. That's unrealistic.

I've re-read this about 8 times and still can't make sense of it. You are aware you are posting this on the Galway City forum?

Ruhanna

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

And totally impractical for large numbers of people for an array of reasons.

cooperguy wrote: »

Which is entirely impractical for a whole host of people

You made your bed. Lie in it.

cooperguy wrote: »

It's not unanswered, you just choose to ignore the answer. The many people who will not be served by the public transport due to the sprawling nature of our suburban and rural development will use it. The people who live near the bus routes can use the bus. It is not possible to run buses at a high enough frequency to be useful through all the west side of Galway and out into the rural areas (which is why they dont run a bus over the Quincentennial bridge, there isnt the demand to run a bus throughout the day and partial day services arent useful enough to be used by a large enough population either)

So the purpose of the ring road is to facilitate the sprawling "nature" of our housing development patterns? Nice. And having a big road for all the cars emerging from all the sprawl every day will enable more of the same? Even nicer.

Meanwhile, people living "near" bus routes "can use" the bus? Or maybe they can ignore public transport and drive instead, like their sprawl-based fellow commuters? It's getting better.

And there we have it. The badly needed ring road is required to serve people who can't or won't use public transport, not to promote the use of public transport, as widely advertised.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

While removing cars might(*) make for a nicer daytime environment, removing the structure and passive surveillance they provide isn't a good idea for night-time.

When bicycles in Ireland are unconstrainted by larger vehicles, they get more aggressive and unpredictable. Yes, I know there are lots of lovely videos from the Netherlands showing bicycle harmony. But we don't have the social attitudes that Dutch people have. Trying to apply their solution in our cultural-context won't work.

?Cee?view wrote: »

Thank you for setting out the actual position logically and cogently.

You will at best be ignored here, but more likely vilified, as the inherent and conscious bias of most contributors here does not allow them to see the truth in what you state.

Irish people are more culturally suited than the Dutch to having lots of cars and drivers around, to ensure that cyclists don't lose the run of themselves? Is that the gist of it?

Is it kind of similar to the way we're not culturally suited to living in apartments?

Ruhanna

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Important reasons like "I wanna wear deck shoes, and they might get wet" - a sound basis for transport planning if ever I saw one.

I wanna own and use as many cars as I can afford, and I wanna drive as fast as I like whenever I like, and I wanna be able to use my phone when I'm bored sitting in traffic, and I wanna be able to drive around and do stuff on my lunch break, and I wanna be all comfy inside my nice motor whatever the weather and I just wanna make the nasty communist greenie anti-car brigade go away.

McGiver

Wompa1 wrote: »

I've re-read this about 8 times and still can't make sense of it. You are aware you are posting this on the Galway City forum?

Anything particular you would like to point out, rationally?

Ruhanna

Ruhanna wrote: »

Irish people are more culturally suited than the Dutch to having lots of cars and drivers around, to ensure that cyclists don't lose the run of themselves? Is that the gist of it?

The dutch have totally lost the run of themselves, I really do not want Ireland to end up like Amsterdam etc I always found it varying from exceptionally annoying to downright dangerous both the numbers and behaviour of cyclists there. No footpath is safe with out bikes flying at you form all sides. Joke shop of a setup.

serfboard

Wompa1 wrote: »

I've re-read this about 8 times and still can't make sense of it. You are aware you are posting this on the Galway City forum?

Seemed sensible enough to me, and very applicable to Galway. In city centres, people don't usually live on ground floors - what's so hard to understand about that?

what_traffic

Marcelo Delightful Neurology wrote: »

The dutch have totally lost the run of themselves, I really do not want Ireland to end up like Amsterdam etc I always found it varying from exceptionally annoying to downright dangerous both the numbers and behaviour of cyclists there. No footpath is safe with out bikes flying at you form all sides. Joke shop of a setup.

:D Your turning into Trump.
Getting beyond the parody stage at this point.

A rural Ireland living person like yourself transported into the heart of 2020 Amsterdam will need two or three weeks to acclimatise to a new reality. Amsterdam not a very good comparison with Galway, Dublin ya would be comparable. Did ya visit any smaller Dutch citys on your trip?

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

A rural Ireland living person like yourself transported into the heart of 2020 Amsterdam will need two or three weeks to acclimatise to a new reality.

Same even applys to a urban Irish person who cycles here - it is a whole new reality + if we followed the rest of Europe and cycle/drive on the right hand side would make it that bit easier.