Galway traffic

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

You'd swear O'Cuiv was in opposition! :rolleyes:
Never heard him over the years discussing GLUAS much.

I'm not sure that anyone pays much heed to him anymore

Mrs OBumble

Panda5000 wrote: »

I expect public transport to go back to normal capacity by the middle of 2021. We're just coming out of Level 5 restrictions and capacity is already being increased back up from 25% to 50%. It's a short to medium term problem that we should plan beyond.

I've been meaning to come back to this.

Capacity may be up from 25% to 50% - but still:

Unless you are travelling for essential purposes only, which includes work, food and medical purposes, Government advice is that you avoid using public transport. Please consider if your journey is essential and help us to provide space for those who need to travel, including essential frontline workers.

Source: https://www.buseireann.ie/service_updates.php?id=4400&month=Dec

And most people are expecting some further restrictions in January, likely with capacity going down again - and up again later.

But really - that's all just immediate response stuff.


The events of the last nine months will have unleashed various fundamental changes in work patterns, and transport patterns.

Many, many more people are now work-from-home advocates - and if their currently job doesn't allow it, will likely change jobs, or look for something with vastly less commute.

Many companies have considered the risks associated with their employees travel mode for the first time: I have a CEO who has told me he doesn't want his staff using buses or car-pools, ever. Thankfully I only go on-site rarely, and he's ok with my using GoCar. He says this won't change: Covid-19 may go away, but there are plenty of other germs and what about the next pandemic (global warming is predicted to bring more).

And on a micro-level, people have adapted. I know a couple who purchased cars in March, because they were too terrified to catch the bus. One is still sanitising their groceries. They won't be going back to the bus any day, week, month or likely even year soon.

Public transport subsidies have now been given to a far wider range of companies. Eventually the cost of doing this will have to be weighted up with the cost of BE subsides: some routes now have far, far more capacity than demandl.


All-in-all, we really have no idea what the long term impact on both public transport and road demand will be. But pretty much the only thing we know is that it won't be the same as it was before. Change is always happening, but Covid has brought about the circumstances for a major step change.

For me personally, my job became permanent WFH at the beginning of April so I got rid of the car completely, saved me a bundle. Keeping in mind I live in a commuter town, I haven't missed the commute or the car.

Since dumping the car I have used my feet, my bike, bike-share, go-Car, BE city buses & train. Granted I only go into the city once a week to check up on a relative but I honestly haven't missed the car. Even picked up the auld ID Leap card.

As for things returning to normal, you only need to look to what happened after SARS, MERS, Ebola etc. Life returns to normal, people move on and forget. There'll be some differences in terms of commuting preferences etc, but overall once there is sufficient immunity built up it'll all be back to normal.

Panda5000

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've been meaning to come back to this.

Capacity may be up from 25% to 50% - but still:

Unless you are travelling for essential purposes only, which includes work, food and medical purposes, Government advice is that you avoid using public transport. Please consider if your journey is essential and help us to provide space for those who need to travel, including essential frontline workers.

Source: https://www.buseireann.ie/service_updates.php?id=4400&month=Dec

And most people are expecting some further restrictions in January, likely with capacity going down again - and up again later.

But really - that's all just immediate response stuff.

Exactly - that's immediate issues, this will ease when numbers drop. With the current approach this will likely be when the vaccine rolls out, then it'll get back to normal with the removal of these restrictions.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The events of the last nine months will have unleashed various fundamental changes in work patterns, and transport patterns.

Many, many more people are now work-from-home advocates - and if their currently job doesn't allow it, will likely change jobs, or look for something with vastly less commute.

Yes - fingers crossed. My work was 100% office based but we'll be returning to minimum of 1 day a week with the team in the office, additional office days are optional.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Many companies have considered the risks associated with their employees travel mode for the first time: I have a CEO who has told me he doesn't want his staff using buses or car-pools, ever. Thankfully I only go on-site rarely, and he's ok with my using GoCar. He says this won't change: Covid-19 may go away, but there are plenty of other germs and what about the next pandemic (global warming is predicted to bring more).

You've repeated this a lot - this is one manager (who seems to be a germaphobe), I haven't heard of this type of response from anyone or any other company. In contrast, many offices currently being built (the docks for example) do not provide employee parking and will be encouraging active travel or public transport.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And on a micro-level, people have adapted. I know a couple who purchased cars in March, because they were too terrified to catch the bus. One is still sanitising their groceries. They won't be going back to the bus any day, week, month or likely even year soon.

We still isolate groceries before using or remove external wrapping on entering the house. But we'll also go out for a meal and a pint if we find a place that has safe space. It's just about mitigating the risks where you can and maintaining as much of normal life as possible by making a few changes.

Again, this will pass when the vaccine is rolled out.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Public transport subsidies have now been given to a far wider range of companies. Eventually the cost of doing this will have to be weighted up with the cost of BE subsides: some routes now have far, far more capacity than demandl.

All-in-all, we really have no idea what the long term impact on both public transport and road demand will be. But pretty much the only thing we know is that it won't be the same as it was before. Change is always happening, but Covid has brought about the circumstances for a major step change.

Public transport capacity being beyond demand is a good thing. This is where we want to get.

Trust is hard won and quickly lost, if you miss an important meeting or your shift start time because a bus is full then you'll be jumping back in the private car.

It's great if we make a step change down in demand for road space, this allows us to jump back several years in demand and make the fixes (proper network and priority) before the demand grows back up and chokes the road space. With a higher % of people WFH the demand will still grow back up with population growth.

When the demand grows back, we want to have a public transport system that is the option of least resistance for getting across the city. This takes years of slow changes and improvements so best craic on with it! It'd be a lot harded to fit that in if we wait an allow the roads to become locked up with private cars again.

Panda5000

The morning traffic in Knocknacarra (WDR) is at a crawl every weekday morning from around 8:35.

Since a lot of people are still working from home, is this down to the school runs? Never see many buses around at that time. Is there a master plan available for Bus Connects Galway? Difficult to fit in proper bus priority in Knocknacarra without doing something like one-way systems.

Storm 10

Panda5000 wrote: »

The morning traffic in Knocknacarra (WDR) is at a crawl every weekday morning from around 8:35.

Since a lot of people are still working from home, is this down to the school runs? Never see many buses around at that time. Is there a master plan available for Bus Connects Galway? Difficult to fit in proper bus priority in Knocknacarra without doing something like one-way systems.

Saw three buses this morning coming from that direction plenty on them that traffic is all the way to the bridge in the morning and further I'm caught in it every day so its people back at work TG

Panda5000

Interesting, I suppose factory/production staff headed east and retail staff.

Will be interesting to see how Bus Connects plans to handle moving people through this, beyond the bus lanes on Bishop O'Donnell Road.

what_traffic

Panda5000 wrote: »

The morning traffic in Knocknacarra (WDR) is at a crawl every weekday morning from around 8:35.

.
..
... Difficult to fit in proper bus priority in Knocknacarra without doing something like one-way systems.

Or just build that bus lane? Council have had plans about putting in a bus lane and raised cycle paths similar to that on Bishop O Donnell along the full corridor of WDR from Rahoon all the way to Cappagh Road (or vice versa) going back a decade now. Was in a Smarter City Travel submission they made back in 2010 to the Dept of Transport. They costed it 10yr ago at €10,000,000

Mrs OBumble

Panda5000 wrote: »

The morning traffic in Knocknacarra (WDR) is at a crawl every weekday morning from around 8:35.

Since a lot of people are still working from home, is this down to the school runs? Never see many buses around at that time. Is there a master plan available for Bus Connects Galway? Difficult to fit in proper bus priority in Knocknacarra without doing something like one-way systems.

Also childminders. It was pointed out a call with WFH colleagues today that some are doing an almost as long commute from home to childcare to home again before the work day starts.

McGiver

timmyntc wrote:

Never made sense - Galway doesn't have the population density for light rail. Plus, the fact that so much traffic bypasses the city center, a light rail line that would inevitably go through eyre square would not be faster than sitting in traffic on the way to parkmore.

No.

In any other country, if density is your problem, you build infrastructure, the light rail, first and then concentrate your population density along the light rail line(s). Low population density generally doesn't support public transport.

If Galway is going to grow by 50% in next X years as predicted then light rail / metro is your only option. Using buses as the main element of public transport is going to fix exactly nothing unless you increase the density. So by betting on buses, the suburban sprawl, chronically low density and lack of solid public transport will just continue.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

No.

In any other country, if density is your problem, you build infrastructure, the light rail, first and then concentrate your population density along the light rail line(s). Low population density generally doesn't support public transport.

If Galway is going to grow by 50% in next X years as predicted then light rail / metro is your only option. Using buses as the main element of public transport is going to fix exactly nothing unless you increase the density. So by betting on buses, the suburban sprawl, chronically low density and lack of solid public transport will just continue.

The power that be disagree as they won't even pony up for a feasibility study

Best case a study will get don in the 2030's, with it being built some time in the mid to late 2040's

Bus priority measures and bike lanes that are segregated and protected at junctions will do more to alleviate travel times across the board.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for light rail and love the luas, but Galway is a long way off needing it, a LONG way

Mrs OBumble

McGiver wrote: »

No.

In any other country, if density is your problem, you build infrastructure, the light rail, first and then concentrate your population density along the light rail line(s). Low population density generally doesn't support public transport.

If Galway is going to grow by 50% in next X years as predicted then light rail / metro is your only option. Using buses as the main element of public transport is going to fix exactly nothing unless you increase the density. So by betting on buses, the suburban sprawl, chronically low density and lack of solid public transport will just continue.

Part of the issue is that there are no example of density giving a nice place to live in Ireland. Every attempt at higher-than-usual density has been a miserable place to live. So many people are willing to accept traffic congestion as they price they have to pay for not having neighbours through the wall or up/downstairs.

Unfortunately this comes with a huge environmental cost.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Part of the issue is that there are no example of density giving a nice place to live in Ireland. Every attempt at higher-than-usual density has been a miserable place to live. So many people are willing to accept traffic congestion as they price they have to pay for not having neighbours through the wall or up/downstairs.

Unfortunately this comes with a huge environmental cost.

We don't even need HIGH density, Medium levels would do just fine + good local services are needed as well. (I do include pubs in that.)

Storm 10

Passing by the University on Newcastle Road on Christmas Eve I saw the Gatso Van pulled in off the footpath and blocking a gate into the University, surely where he was was illegal parking on private property , it was a disgrace that they would be there never heard any one getting killed on that road ,traffic is slow there heading to the lights at the Hospital.

MadYaker

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The power that be disagree as they won't even pony up for a feasibility study

Best case a study will get don in the 2030's, with it being built some time in the mid to late 2040's

Bus priority measures and bike lanes that are segregated and protected at junctions will do more to alleviate travel times across the board.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for light rail and love the luas, but Galway is a long way off needing it, a LONG way

So we should wait until it’s badly needed and then watch it take ten years for construction to even begin? Because that’s the current plan (if you could even call it that) more buses and bike lanes will do fcuk all.

McGiver

I believe I've seen one of the new bus "shelters" in Mervue. The left side is not sheltered at all, only the top about a meter and the right side, also very narrow. Very smart indeed, in the city with worst weather/the most rain in Europe...Money well invested.

Wompa1

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/117791/public-invited-to-have-their-say-on-new-cross-city-link#at_pco=smlwn-1.0&at_si=5fed177456a104b7&at_ab=per-2&at_pos=0&at_tot=1

Article in the Advertiser about the travel corridor proposal for public transport to connect University Road to the Dublin Road via the city centre.

I know it has been talked about already but liking the look of Woodquay & the pedestrian bridge in the mock ups. If some of the redevelopment works around Eyre Square and the docks go ahead plus this, the city could look very different in 15+ years time.

CowboyTed

Wompa1 wrote: »

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/117791/public-invited-to-have-their-say-on-new-cross-city-link#at_pco=smlwn-1.0&at_si=5fed177456a104b7&at_ab=per-2&at_pos=0&at_tot=1

Article in the Advertiser about the travel corridor proposal for public transport to connect University Road to the Dublin Road via the city centre.

I know it has been talked about already but liking the look of Woodquay & the pedestrian bridge in the mock ups. If some of the redevelopment works around Eyre Square and the docks go ahead plus this, the city could look very different in 15+ years time.

How about they trial it without spending a fortune first...

Just block off the streets and run the traffic thru it first and see if it works...

Seriously would let that shower in the City Council do a thing without showing it works...

These are the guys who took two years to vandalise Eyre Square and leave it looking like the entrance to an Airport...

As for the mock ups... Will it have a loads of that imported Chinese stone again... Sorry but they inner city designs look like bungalow bltz designs at this stage... While those spaces could be used(after a trial), why do we have to dress them up in such a god awful way, totally out of character to anything that show be in an Irish City..

Reminder, public consultation is staying open for the Cross City route until Jan 22.

Have you say here

Review the virtual info room here

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

I believe I've seen one of the new bus "shelters" in Mervue. The left side is not sheltered at all, only the top about a meter and the right side, also very narrow. Very smart indeed, in the city with worst weather/the most rain in Europe...Money well invested.

Any photo? Some shelters alright could have done with some local knowledge.
The prevailing Wind and Rain is usually from the SW
The NEW Terminus for the 405 the Gateway Retail Park near Millars Lane Rahoon fits that bill - its facing South West. It should probably be inverted OR else have larger roof to provide greater shelter.

From the Irish Times, I've bolded the car access reference. Great to see attitudes changing at the highest levels and acknowledgement that the status quo is no longer tenable.

Granted this is Dublin but it shows Irish planners are shifting in their approach across the country, to make more sustainable modes of transport the priority and reduce the priority of cars.

Days of three-bed semis in Dublin ‘are over’ as high-density housing plans take hold

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/days-of-three-bed-semis-in-dublin-are-over-as-high-density-housing-plans-take-hold-1.4460746?mode=amp

The days of the three-bed semi-detached house “are over” in Dublin, the city council’s most senior planner has said, as work gets under way on plans for new high-density neighbourhoods across the capital.

Plans for at least four new “urban villages” will be devised under the new Dublin City Development Plan 2022-2028 to help house an expected increase in population of up to 70,000.

Dublin city planner John O’Hara said most homes in the new neighbourhoods would be apartments. “The days of the three-bed semi are over,” he said.

The city needed to maximise the potential of land within the M50 to deliver some 30,000 additional homes over the period of the plan, Mr O’Hara said. This would involve building on infill sites, but would also require the development of strategies for large industrial estates including the Dublin Industrial Estate near Glasnevin cemetery; Jamestown Business Park in Finglas; the Malahide Road Industrial Park in Coolock; and, to the southwest of the city, industrial lands around Kylemore Road, Park West Road and the Inchicore railway.

The plan would also guide the development of the Glass Bottle Company site in Poolbeg, and other large land banks at the Naas Road, Ballymun and Cherry Orchard.

While there had during the recession been a push back to building two-storey housing, Mr O’Hara said, the urgency of dealing with climate change meant that was no longer sustainable.

“The corollary of that is to contain urban sprawl with higher-density development,” he said. “That does not mean forcing employment out of industrial areas. Our policy, right through the development plan, is for mixed use, based on the 15-minute neighbourhood principle, where your work, and everything you need for quality of life, is within a 15-minute walk or cycle.”


Major changes are also expected for the city centre, Mr O’Hara said. “Cars will not be used as a means of commuting – that will be a major priority.”

While the council does not plan to ban cars, measures will be taken to ensure cycling, walking and public transport are the more attractive commuting options, he said.

Retail will no longer hold the same place in the post-pandemic city, he added.

“We need to consider what is the future of the city post-Covid. Retail, although there will be some bounce back, will never return to the position it had. But we have to retain the vitality of the city streets, and that might mean a greater focus on culture, on eating out, and on more residential use in the city centre.”

The development plan would also consider whether there was an “overprovision” of hotels and student accommodation in certain parts of the city, he said.

“We have to look at the loss of cultural capital and where we can provide those spaces indoors or outdoors. We also need to consider whether the hospitality industry might have a contribution to make to that cultural offering, maybe allocating part of a hotel to a jazz club.”

The council is holding online public information meetings on the development plan on January 25th and 26th. A “strategic issues paper” is available at dublincitydevelopmentplan.ieand the closing date for submissions is February 22nd.

This is the critical bit...

"measures will be taken to ensure cycling, walking and public transport are the more attractive commuting options"

When we reach that it'll be a real tipping point. We're quite a bit away from that in Galway with the speed at which changes happen here. Many more years of reports and consultations (which will be ignored and go stale).

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

This is the critical bit...

"measures will be taken to ensure cycling, walking and public transport are the more attractive commuting options"

When we reach that it'll be a real tipping point. We're quite a bit away from that in Galway with the speed at which changes happen here. Many more years of reports and consultations (which will be ignored and go stale).

Could City Council be forced to do quicker though because of changes on the ground? The density of types of all construction works in the City Centre mostly ABP (Strategic Housing Development Application) rather than City Hall planning approved now and beyond is far higher than anything that has gone before in the City. Crown site is a good example of that. Developer wants to actually add even more residential to it (https://connachttribune.ie/developer-banks-on-boom-in-rental-property-market/?fbclid=IwAR3-xM-ZIAaImtx0ysk6E13Idxmdo35RgCT4ODlrBpx-bIYcB0DopXD826w).

I recall even reading in the local past year to two that ABP have even rejected a recent Development on the WDR because the density was too low.

serfboard

Deleted User wrote: »

From the Irish Times

From that Irish Times bit:

The Irish Times wrote:

The city needed to maximise the potential of land within the M50

Until City Councils across the country start CPOing Golf Clubs and Racecourses within their areas, I won't believe a word of their so-called need to maximise the potential of land.

what_traffic

serfboard wrote: »

From that Irish Times bit:
Until City Councils across the country start CPOing Golf Clubs and Racecourses within their areas, I won't believe a word of their so-called need to maximise the potential of land.

Kingston would be never the same again. Would have great views of Galway Bay/Burren that is for sure

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

From that Irish Times bit:
Until City Councils across the country start CPOing Golf Clubs and Racecourses within their areas, I won't believe a word of their so-called need to maximise the potential of land.

A carpark at the Blackrock end of the prom and remove on-street parking from the prom itself... great views restored and a coastal greenway.

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

A carpark at the Blackrock end of the prom and remove on-street parking from the prom itself... great views restored and a coastal greenway.

The Prom is already one massive big car park. Improve public transport, install coastal greenway, make prom a pleasant place to actually walk to.
Dissolve the car parking need.

I know, I was responding to the thought of "start CPOing Golf Clubs ". If we took a bit of land off the Galway Bay Golf Club at Blackrock to add a carpark with the same capacity as the on-street parking along the prom then surely everyone would be happy (apart from the golfers).

Space then for coastal greenway for commuting in and out of town as well as retaining the (loads of) parking for prom walkers and Blackrock swimmers.

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

I know, I was responding to the thought of "start CPOing Golf Clubs ". If we took a bit of land off the Galway Bay Golf Club at Blackrock to add a carpark with the same capacity as the on-street parking along the prom then surely everyone would be happy (apart from the golfers).

Space then for coastal greenway for commuting in and out of town as well as retaining the (loads of) parking for prom walkers and Blackrock swimmers.

Better to make a public park out of that section I reckon.
Read recently in one of the local papers that the bus service frequency to Salthill is the same as it was 100yrs ago when it was a tram and horse.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Better to make a public park out of that section I reckon.
Read recently in one of the local papers that the bus service frequency to Salthill is the same as it was 100yrs ago when it was a tram and horse.

How many public parks do you think Salthill needs?

100 years ago there were a lot fewer private vehicles. So having ghe same frequently ( every 20 mins, plus a few extra) is pretty good going.