Galway traffic

xckjoo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

On this particular stretch opposite the school, the houses all seem to have similar depth of gardens. Some have converted these into driveways. Some have nice pretty gardens which presumably leads to cars parked on the road and footpath.

Let them provide their own parking spaces for storing their own private property. If they actually don't have enough room in front for a space, then let them find paid parking elsewhere, not on a public road.

I don't live on that road so don't know about them directly. But my own home far pre-dates the automobile and I can't access the back of my house due to planning decisions taken by the local government. So I would argue they have a duty to provide for the residents based on the decisions they made. You could say the same about electricity and telephone poles on public land. Why don't people have to put them in their gardens? Owned by private companies and providing to private residents.

TBH I think the issue is the volume of traffic on these roads. The parked cars wouldn't be an issue if there was less car traffic. Buses and bikes would manage fine if there wasn't so many cars.

zell12 wrote: »

They mostly park partially or fully on the footpath, to avoid scratches from passing vehicles or deliberately take up pedestrian space. Council refuse to enforce it.

This really gets my wick. I dunno how people in wheelchairs or with buggies manage in this city. I guess they just have to drive door to door

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If parking is 'essential' then maybe they need to provide their own parking space on their own property as many of the the houses along that stretch have done, rather than expecting the public to subsidise their transport choices.

You know that most bus services are subsidised?

And that the thing about storing your transport device on public property applies equally to your bicycle as it does to Nox's car?

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And that the thing about storing your transport device on public property applies equally to your bicycle as it does to Nox's car?

That is incorrect, but this is not surprise when coming from you. The local authority does not apply the "same" rules for storage of said vehicles.

AndrewJRenko

xckjoo wrote: »

I don't live on that road so don't know about them directly. But my own home far pre-dates the automobile and I can't access the back of my house due to planning decisions taken by the local government. So I would argue they have a duty to provide for the residents based on the decisions they made. You could say the same about electricity and telephone poles on public land. Why don't people have to put them in their gardens? Owned by private companies and providing to private residents.

You can argue whatever you like, but there is no constitutional right to parking. If you buy a car, it's up to you to find space for it. You had the chance to input into past planning decisions at that time, so it really has no relevance now.

xckjoo wrote: »

TBH I think the issue is the volume of traffic on these roads. The parked cars wouldn't be an issue if there was less car traffic. Buses and bikes would manage fine if there wasn't so many cars.

Fully agree. One of the reason why we have so many cars is because we subsidise car ownership by allowing people to store cars on public space.

xckjoo wrote: »

This really gets my wick. I dunno how people in wheelchairs or with buggies manage in this city. I guess they just have to drive door to door

It's a huge issue for wheelchair users, people with buggies, people with sight loss, people with two friends walking with them and more.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You know that most bus services are subsidised?

Yes, and we both know why, don't we?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And that the thing about storing your transport device on public property applies equally to your bicycle as it does to Nox's car?

I don't store my bike on public property, mainly because of the substantial risk that it won't be there when I get back.

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I don't store my bike on public property, mainly because of the substantial risk that it won't be there when I get back.

So if you ride it to the bridge club or the GAA pitches or the pub or wherever ... where do you park it?

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Fully agree. One of the reason why we have so many cars is because we subsidise car ownership by allowing people to store cars on public space.

Absolute bull, cars owners pay vast amounts of tax for owning and driving their cars. The very least they should get is parking space.

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So if you ride it to the bridge club or the GAA pitches or the pub or wherever ... where do you park it?

Generally I don't. Generally I ride it to work and home again. The odd time, I have parked it at the supermarket in the designated spaces (private space) or the GAA Club in the designated spaces, but the risk of theft is a serious problem.

AndrewJRenko

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Absolute bull, cars owners pay vast amounts of tax for owning and driving their cars. The very least they should get is parking space.

Car ownership is already hugely subsidised by society at large. A chunk of the costs of private car ownership are paid by those who don't have private cars and don't enjoy the benefits arising.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/06/heres-how-driving-is-encouraged-and-subsidized-by-law/

http://cityobservatory.org/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-free-way/

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/when-will-drivers-start-paying-the-full-costs-of-motoring/


And now you want free storage space too? Maybe you should campaign for a constitutional referendum so.

xckjoo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You can argue whatever you like, but there is no constitutional right to parking. If you buy a car, it's up to you to find space for it. You had the chance to input into past planning decisions at that time, so it really has no relevance now.

There isn't a constitutional right to lots of things. Is there a constitutional right to any form of transport?

There is a benefit to local government in providing means for transportation to residents and that's currently heavily biased in favour of the car. IMO that needs redressing but that's how things have gone in the last 30+ years so no point in moaning about how the local population have had to adjust to it. There was no local campaigns to provide car infrastructure, it was at a governing level and people got on with it. Reduce the need for private car ownership and you'll soon see the number of cars dropping. They're an expensive commodity to maintain when they aren't needed. I'd warrant that a decent percentage of people would happily lose their parking spot if they could manage without the need for an expensive car.

Despite how I might look, I wasn't alive or old enough to protest any of these decisions when they happened. We are however on our fourth generation of people in this house so not exactly blow-ins. Some of the decisions I'm thinking of were protested by my grandparents but to no avail, and some of them weren't publicly announced before implementation.

If I do buy a car again it'll be because I need it to get to work which will be of benefit to the locality because this is where I spend my money, raise my family and spend my time. Hopefully I won't have to as I'm surviving just fine without one right now, but if my work situation changes it might have to happen. Ideally I'll continue to commute by bike and bus, but I'm lucky enough to be able to do that right now. Hopefully we'll see more people being able to do so in the future because getting away from the car has been one of the best things I've done for my physical and mental well being.



TLDR: Life isn't black and white. Build it and they will come.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

If I do buy a car again it'll be because I need it to get to work which will be of benefit to the locality because this is where I spend my money, raise my family and spend my time. Hopefully I won't have to as I'm surviving just fine without one right now, but if my work situation changes it might have to happen. Ideally I'll continue to commute by bike and bus, but I'm lucky enough to be able to do that right now. Hopefully we'll see more people being able to do so in the future because getting away from the car has been one of the best things I've done for my physical and mental well being.

There is a trade off alright on the cost benefit. You probably spend more locally and regularly on an ongoing basis now than if you were to own a motor vehicle + your money circulates and is distribtued in a more local fashion when your not forking out for motortax, fuel(import), insurance and the vehicle(import) itself. Would need a substantial pay increase for a NEW job to be able to afford vehicle and make the equivalent benefit to the local economy that you are already currently contributing.

gordongekko

zell12 wrote: »

They mostly park partially or fully on the footpath, to avoid scratches from passing vehicles or deliberately take up pedestrian space. Council refuse to enforce it.

Jesus you've little to be doing with your time

donvito99

gordongekko wrote: »

Jesus you've little to be doing with your time

Says your man commenting on his post on Boards.

Mrs OBumble

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Generally I don't. Generally I ride it to work and home again. The odd time, I have parked it at the supermarket in the designated spaces (private space) or the GAA Club in the designated spaces, but the risk of theft is a serious problem.

Ok, so let's be really specific: If you develop an interest in cards, and decide to visit Galway Bridge Club, what vehicle will you use, and where will you park it while you are there?

And if your limited-mobility granny who lives near Lackagh wants you to give her a lift to the same club, where will will you stop your vehicle to drop her off and pick her up?


Why am I picking on the Bridge Club? Well it's a sports amenity (in the broadest sense of the word) which happens to be in the relevant street. Demographics mean that many of the people who participate in events there will have limited mobility: catching the bus and walking from the nearest stop will be in between challenging and impossible for some visitors.

cooperguy

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Car ownership is already hugely subsidised by society at large. A chunk of the costs of private car ownership are paid by those who don't have private cars and don't enjoy the benefits arising.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/06/heres-how-driving-is-encouraged-and-subsidized-by-law/

http://cityobservatory.org/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-free-way/

http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/when-will-drivers-start-paying-the-full-costs-of-motoring/


And now you want free storage space too? Maybe you should campaign for a constitutional referendum so.

Most of the info in those links dont apply to Ireland at all

roytheboyo

I check in on this every few months just to see if the same 6-8 people are arguing with each other about various tangents and trying to one up each other, rather than discussing how to do something about the traffic that takes chunks out of my and thousands others week.

donvito99

roytheboyo wrote: »

I check in on this every few months just to see if the same 6-8 people are arguing with each other about various tangents and trying to one up each other, rather than discussing how to do something about the traffic that takes chunks out of my and thousands others week.

Public transport and instead of bypass. There, I said it.

cooperguy

donvito99 wrote: »

Public transport and instead of bypass. There, I said it.

Nowhere to put the public transport without the bypass

jjpep

roytheboyo wrote: »

I check in on this every few months just to see if the same 6-8 people are arguing with each other about various tangents and trying to one up each other, rather than discussing how to do something about the traffic that takes chunks out of my and thousands others week.

Nail on head.

xckjoo

roytheboyo wrote: »

I check in on this every few months just to see if the same 6-8 people are arguing with each other about various tangents and trying to one up each other, rather than discussing how to do something about the traffic that takes chunks out of my and thousands others week.

Because the traffic is the cars and it won't go away until there's less cars on the road. There's no two ways about it.

Johnny_BravoIII

roytheboyo wrote: »

I check in on this every few months just to see if the same 6-8 people are arguing with each other about various tangents and trying to one up each other, rather than discussing how to do something about the traffic that takes chunks out of my and thousands others week.

The only answer is to reduce the number of cars on the road. This means massive investment in public transport priortised over roads over the next 20 years. We need to build a society and public transport infrastructure so that cars are unnecessary, at best optional.i.e its makes more sense for people not to use their cars.

It also means a national policy to reduce once off housing and people living car dependant lives.

It has happenend very successfully in other countries. It won't happen here anytime soon, which means the **** show will continue for at least another generation.

AndrewJRenko

cooperguy wrote: »

Most of the info in those links dont apply to Ireland at all

I was sort of hoping that people had the smarts to see the general principles involved and see how these also relate to the Irish situation.

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

The only answer is to reduce the number of cars on the road. This means massive investment in public transport priortised over roads over the next 20 years. We need to build a society and public transport infrastructure so that cars are unnecessary, at best optional.i.e its makes more sense for people not to use their cars.

It also means a national policy to reduce once off housing and people living car dependant lives.

It has happenend very successfully in other countries. It won't happen here anytime soon, which means the **** show will continue for at least another generation.

Fully agree on the public transport, but you've also missed the opportunity of promoting cycling as a way to reduce the number of cars on the road. This has also happened successfully in other countries. It's not an either/or situation with public transport. Both need to happen in parallel.

And just for kicks, I saw this today and thought of some people on this thread.

ronnie3585

roytheboyo wrote: »

I check in on this every few months just to see if the same 6-8 people are arguing with each other about various tangents and trying to one up each other, rather than discussing how to do something about the traffic that takes chunks out of my and thousands others week.

It's not just this thread, it's the entire Galway City forum that's descended into this drivel.

Johnny_BravoIII

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I was sort of hoping that people had the smarts to see the general principles involved and see how these also relate to the Irish situation.



Fully agree on the public transport, but you've also missed the opportunity of promoting cycling as a way to reduce the number of cars on the road. This has also happened successfully in other countries. It's not an either/or situation with public transport. Both need to happen in parallel.

And just for kicks, I saw this today and thought of some people on this thread.

Ageed re cycling etc.
The reality is most middle class Irish people want to live/are living in the bungalow in the countryside.
Yes we should have cycling infrastructure but it doesnt adress the reason for our traffic. I.e. car dependant urban sprawl.
We need to build super-fast, convenient public transport alternatives for these people.

I would be in favour of making all public transport free. This would drive usage and investment etc

Traffic backed up 1k out the motorway at 10am this morning. How do people live like this?

Traffic calming measures, bridges, wider roads is not going to fix the traffic issues. We havent even begun to understand this. From the point at which we accept this as fact, its a 10-20 year project.

John_Rambo

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Ageed re cycling etc.
The reality is most middle class Irish people want to live/are living in the bungalow in the countryside.
Yes we should have cycling infrastructure but it doesnt adress the reason for our traffic. I.e. car dependant urban sprawl.
We need to build super-fast, convenient public transport alternatives for these people.

I would be in favour of making all public transport free. This would drive usage and investment etc

Traffic backed up 1k out the motorway at 10am this morning. How do people live like this?

Traffic calming measures, bridges, wider roads is not going to fix the traffic issues. We havent even begun to understand this. From the point at which we accept this as fact, its a 10-20 year project.

It's impossible for super fast, convenient public transport to go from door to door to every one off house built in the countryside and park and ride is dismissed by them. They just want to drive from door to door (and give out about the other people that do it.. and call them "traffic")

timmyntc

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's impossible for super fast, convenient public transport to go from door to door to every one off house built in the countryside and park and ride is dismissed by them. They just want to drive from door to door (and give out about the other people that do it.. and call them "traffic")

Park and ride doesn't exist for these people.
If there were park and ride facilities around Galway - and a decent bus service that didn't route all buses into eyre square - then people would avail of it.

People don't choose to sit in traffic because they enjoy it - they do it because there is no credible alternative.
Put in bus lanes all along the n6 and route buses from Cappagh to Parkmore via Westside and Bothar na dTreabh and it will be one of the busiest routes in the country.
You'd be mad not to use if it meant getting to work quicker than by car.

John_Rambo

timmyntc wrote: »

Park and ride doesn't exist for these people.
If there were park and ride facilities around Galway - and a decent bus service that didn't route all buses into eyre square - then people would avail of it.

At least one does according to this thread. AW uses it and claims it's excellent.

timmyntc wrote: »

People don't choose to sit in traffic because they enjoy it - they do it because there is no credible alternative.

There's people on this thread and the last one saying they'd refuse to park and ride and would rather drive in heavy traffic.

timmyntc wrote: »

Put in bus lanes all along the n6 and route buses from Cappagh to Parkmore via Westside and Bothar na dTreabh and it will be one of the busiest routes in the country.
You'd be mad not to use if it meant getting to work quicker than by car.

You would be mad, but it seems people would rather sit in their cars. Personally, I don't drive in to my city, I use public transport.

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ok, so let's be really specific: If you develop an interest in cards, and decide to visit Galway Bridge Club, what vehicle will you use, and where will you park it while you are there?

And if your limited-mobility granny who lives near Lackagh wants you to give her a lift to the same club, where will will you stop your vehicle to drop her off and pick her up?


Why am I picking on the Bridge Club? Well it's a sports amenity (in the broadest sense of the word) which happens to be in the relevant street. Demographics mean that many of the people who participate in events there will have limited mobility: catching the bus and walking from the nearest stop will be in between challenging and impossible for some visitors.

I meant to come back on this one. I'm not sure where you're going with this, but perhaps we can take a short cut. If the purpose of the scenario is to back me into some kind of corner and create an admission of guilt that, sometimes, a car is convenient or maybe even necessary, then I'm happy to speed things along by saying a car is convenient, and sometimes even necessary. I drive a car, like most cyclists. Outside of my work commute, I don't do a huge amount of cycling.

Nothing that I've said is about banning cars or blocking cars. Everything I've said has been about encouraging and enabling sustainable transport for a whole range of reasons - transport/traffic reasons, environmental reasons, public health reasons. It might be a surprise for the most ardent petrol heads to realise that the more people that can be encouraged out of cars to alternate forms of transport, the easier the car journeys will be for the remaining car users.

On the specific issue, it looks like the Bridge Club has a decent car park adjacent, so that would probably be the best place to drop and collect Granny. Indeed, the 'generous car lot' is mentioned in the Google reviews of the Bridge club.

Does this mean that every time an organisation starts a Bridge Club or similar service, we should automatically provide public space for storage of private property? Absolutely not.

what_traffic

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/14/driving-city-clean-air-zones-birmingham

read till the end

"
If you want people to drive less then you have to organise society in a way that makes that bearable, and that’s ultimately a job for central governments. It’s time national politicians stopped being backseat drivers here, and took the wheel.
"

AndrewJRenko

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

Ageed re cycling etc.
The reality is most middle class Irish people want to live/are living in the bungalow in the countryside.
Yes we should have cycling infrastructure but it doesnt adress the reason for our traffic. I.e. car dependant urban sprawl.
We need to build super-fast, convenient public transport alternatives for these people.

We also need to stop enabling further car-dependent urban sprawl by allowing further building of one-off housing.

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We also need to stop enabling further car-dependent urban sprawl by allowing further building of one-off housing.

No government will even dare attempt to stop people building. Its already limited to people who are from the area, are building on family land etc. Even attempting to further curtail selfbuilds will not end well for any government that's for sure. Its not many issues that I would say this for but I will be on the streets protesting at the suggestion of stopping one off houses for locals.

Personally it won't impact me as my planning application will hopefully be submitted by the end of this month or not long after but I'd like to see future generation of my family be able to continue to live in the area and build homes on our own land.