Galway traffic

?Cee?view

6 wrote: »

Why?

Surely a pedestrianised array would attract greater footfall, and thus help local businesses?

No, it will only help the likes of cafes, shops that sell small occasional items and those directed to tourists. Fahertys' Paint Shop for instance will likely be finished.

This is all fine of course if what's wanted is a central car free area with business and commerce conducted in out of town shopping centres while the town centre becomes a walking and tourist thoroughfare.

?Cee?view

6 wrote: »

Why?

Surely a pedestrianised array would attract greater footfall, and thus help local businesses?

It will certainly attract further people who walk, literally footfall, but I can't see how that translates to more people.

Mrs OBumble

?Cee?view wrote: »

A real kick in the teeth for local businesses

And residents, who don't really want to live in a public drinking and pissing plaza.

If you don't understand what I mean, try sitting in Eyre Square for a couple of hours.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And residents, who don't really want to live in a public drinking and pissing plaza.

If you don't understand what I mean, try sitting in Eyre Square for a couple of hours.

So you want the pubs in the city center done away with then, yes?

Infrastructure changes don't seem to be your issue, seems to be drinkers.

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

It depends. Possibly the people that live in the country won't come shopping in the city if there are less parking spots there. It's an uncertainty.
On the other hand, developers hope more room for bars and tables will attract more people close to the city that walk, bike, taxi or bus in.
It's a gamble and I hope it pays off.

Its not a gamble at all, there's literally a 1000+ car parking spaces within 5mins walk of this location. Any parking left in Woodquay area should be focused for residents only and blue badge holders.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/decision-on-proposal-for-galway-city-ring-road-pushed-back-to-june/

"The decision date on the proposed Galway city ring road has been pushed back from the end of April to the end of June.

An Bord Pleanála had set a provisional target date of the end of this month for decision, however this has now been extended."

ratracer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So you want the pubs in the city center done away with then, yes?

Infrastructure changes don't seem to be your issue, seems to be drinkers.

And cyclists.......don’t forget the cyclists!

ratracer

ratracer wrote: »

And cyclists.......don’t forget the cyclists!

With all these two wheelers pushing the four wheelers out of town, we're left with nothing but no wheelers drinking and pissing on the streets.

Laviski

same old

if people really don't want roads built then the planning needs to allow for taller buildings. everything within city center should be doubling its current height. PT is only sucessful where there is population density.

so if build up isn't allowed/catered for then build the bypass.

Laviski

Laviski wrote: »

same old

if people really don't want roads built then the planning needs to allow for taller buildings. everything within city center should be doubling its current height. PT is only sucessful where there is population density.

so if build up isn't allowed/catered for then build the bypass.

Building up is great, if they are smart about how they go about it i.e. a plan set out for the strategic development of specific sections of the city in very limited and specific manner, to ensure that all sectors of the economy and society are catered for in a well thought out and consistent manner where anyone can look at said plan and understand that over the next X years the following types of development are going to happen in each area a.k.a. a LAP (Local Area Plan).

Alas, GCC have seen fit to not do one for the city center and so they leave it to developers to take random stabs in the dark by throwing crap at a wall and seeing what sticks. They literally have no idea what the council will or won't approve.

Its the most stupid, braindead way to develop this city

Mrs OBumble

Deleted User wrote: »

So you want the pubs in the city center done away with then, yes?

Infrastructure changes don't seem to be your issue, seems to be drinkers.

Woodquay is city-fringe, not city centre. It is a primarily residential area, with some shops and pubs (six pre-Covid, remains to be seen how many will be left afterwards, but I'm sure it will be fewer).

Infrastructure changes need to make sense, in this culture and climate, and throughout the whole 24 hours, not just in daylight.

Ireland in general, and Galway in particular has a major issue with open public spaces being used for public drinking. We already have a number of plaza type areas where this happens (Eyre Square, "Supermacs plaza" across the road from it, Spanish Arch, Claddagh Quay). The last of those is in another primarily residential area, and the residents there are absolutely plagued by people using their gardens as toilets. We don't need to create the same issue in another space.

Also, we also don't have a Mediterranean climate. Sure it doesn't rain all the time, you can generally find 20 minutes between showers to travel somewhere by bicycle. But would I trust the rain to stay away for 90 minutes so I could have a meal at an outdoor restaurant? Generally, no.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Woodquay is city-fringe, not city centre.

City fringe, that's a good one. Within 200m you have Eyre square, the Eyre Sq SC, William St/Shop St.

City fringe it ain't

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It is a primarily residential area, with some shops and pubs (six pre-Covid, remains to be seen how many will be left afterwards, but I'm sure it will be fewer).

Going back 100 years it has been a mixed-use area with both shops & residences. It also had a thriving market in times past which was retried with great success a number of years ago and now forms part of the city council Galway Public Realm Strategy as an area for renewal

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Infrastructure changes need to make sense, in this culture and climate, and throughout the whole 24 hours, not just in daylight.

Totally agree

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ireland in general, and Galway in particular has a major issue with open public spaces being used for public drinking. We already have a number of plaza type areas where this happens (Eyre Square, "Supermacs plaza" across the road from it, Spanish Arch, Claddagh Quay). The last of those is in another primarily residential area, and the residents there are absolutely plagued by people using their gardens as toilets. We don't need to create the same issue in another space.

Much like the report button on boards, if you don't like behavior on the streets, dial 999/112. As I said, it seems the issue you have is with drinkers, not changes to infrastructure. Using inaction, stagnation or the continued unfettered access of private cars everywhere is not the way to address the issues around drinkers.

?Cee?view

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Woodquay is city-fringe, not city centre. It is a primarily residential area, with some shops and pubs (six pre-Covid, remains to be seen how many will be left afterwards, but I'm sure it will be fewer).

Infrastructure changes need to make sense, in this culture and climate, and throughout the whole 24 hours, not just in daylight.

Ireland in general, and Galway in particular has a major issue with open public spaces being used for public drinking. We already have a number of plaza type areas where this happens (Eyre Square, "Supermacs plaza" across the road from it, Spanish Arch, Claddagh Quay). The last of those is in another primarily residential area, and the residents there are absolutely plagued by people using their gardens as toilets. We don't need to create the same issue in another space.

Also, we also don't have a Mediterranean climate. Sure it doesn't rain all the time, you can generally find 20 minutes between showers to travel somewhere by bicycle. But would I trust the rain to stay away for 90 minutes so I could have a meal at an outdoor restaurant? Generally, no.

Stop talking sense. It's not appreciated here

ben.schlomo

?Cee?view wrote: »

Stop talking sense. It's not appreciated here

What type of sense is it though? Non-sense maybe?

Valid concerns but as DaCor said, filling the space with moving traffic and parked cars isn't a great way to deal with issues around drinking and public order.

biko

what_traffic wrote: »

Its not a gamble at all, there's literally a 1000+ car parking spaces within 5mins walk of this location. Any parking left in Woodquay area should be focused for residents only and blue badge holders.

You make it sound like all those +1000 are always available. I don't know if you drive but all the city car parks and houses fill up.

Removing the spaces in Woodquay will probably not cause the people that usually park there to park start cycling/busing into the city.

timmyntc

biko wrote: »

You make it sound like all those +1000 are always available. I don't know if you drive but all the city car parks and houses fill up.

Do you think removing the spaces in Woodquay will cause the people that usually park there to park start cycling/busing into the city?

Public transport improvements will encourage more public transport usage.
Pedestrianization of woodquay is not to incentivise public transport - but to create a space that can actually be enjoyed by people, rather than used to park their big metal boxes so they can walk to shop street.

biko

biko wrote: »

Removing the spaces in Woodquay will probably not cause the people that usually park there to park start cycling/busing into the city.

Actually it will encourage some people to switch modes to more sustainable options.

Reducing the priority, access and free movement of the private car along with reducing parking availability while increasing the cost of what remains, these are legitimate means by which to encourage modal switch and are literally used all over the world to do this.

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

You make it sound like all those +1000 are always available. I don't know if you drive but all the city car parks and houses fill up.

Removing the spaces in Woodquay will probably not cause the people that usually park there to park start cycling/busing into the city.

I do drive, when leaving City - but never into City Centre. I cycle, walk or get the bus to get into the City.
Removing spaces in Woodquay will change peoples driving behavior in that area - they wont be able to park there so they will have to start changing there behavior regardless. Some may use other car parks, some might start using the bus, but when Salmon Weir Bridge is a bus gate it will certainly make Bus and Bike far more attractive to get to and from Woodquay as it will eliminate through car traffic in that area. That will have another huge change on peoples driving behavior in that area. Some people can adapt to change some cannot.

ratracer

biko wrote: »

You make it sound like all those +1000 are always available. I don't know if you drive but all the city car parks and houses fill up.

Removing the spaces in Woodquay will probably not cause the people that usually park there to park start cycling/busing into the city.

Perhaps a little bit of hyperbole in this reply. The only times ‘all the city car parks’ are ever reported as full are a couple of Saturdays in December when the Christmas shopping period is in full swing!

biko

Read through any of the previous car parking threads.
Anywhere close to Woodquay like Dyke/Cathedral etc filled up every morning before the virus.

But - considering the virus I can understand doing the work in Woodquay now.
Lots of people that previously drove into town from the county will stay working from home anyway during the weekdays.

The shops will be glad for any business once they open and it will be a while before all the people start going into town again.
Possibly by then some families will start using the bus instead of a car.

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

But - considering the virus I can understand doing the work in Woodquay now.
Lots of people that previously drove into town from the county will stay working from home anyway during the weekdays.

The shops will be glad for any business once they open and it will be a while before all the people start going into town again.
Possibly by then some families will start using the bus instead of a car.

I agree - will be a while yet before numbers going into the City will be back to 2019 levels, looking like 2022 at the earliest.
Am pretty sure the proposal for Woodquay was in the pipeline pre-Covid.
Are families the key target? If we could get half the single occupier car users to change it would be a massive modal change - they are the ones we need to switch to using the bus. The storage space required for such private vehicle usage in the City, we are using a huge amount of land at the minute for this.

Laviski

what are people taking cause whatever it is i'll have some.

people abandon their cars and use PT...... get real.
Not going to happen with unreliable services that existed pre covid. Maybe, just maybe when that bus connect plan is completed it may ( and i say may) tempt people to use it, but realistically the bus connects does not serve any high density residential areas. People not within 10 minutes walking distance of these stops aren't going to choose Bus over their car if they have one. Traffic congestion isn't confined to just eyre square.... living on one side of the city to work on another your likely to lose 2 hours commute every day as opposed to 40-50 mins by car (on a good day). People don't have time to lose that. Plus people that invested in a car, will choose a car cause they paid/paying for it, so why add more expense and not use it. (yes, once the realise they don't need a car and can rely on PT they could get rid of it, but we are decades away from that)

The terraced and semi's along that bus connects route need to be replaced with apartment blocks or at least townhouses to increase the usage of the space (maybe remove requirement to provide car park spaces). This will allow frequency of said service to not require a timetable as you know a bus will arrive every 5/10 minutes. WIth current planning and objections to height, that just isn't going to happen even if it was a possibility.

If you can't get from point A to point B on PT in a consistent reliable manner, people will still travel in their cars. Until that happens, there isn't any incentive. Plus there is covid and certain people don't want to share confined spaces especially those with a clear lack of personal Hygiene/respect for others.

Laviski

Laviski wrote: »

Not going to happen with unreliable services that existed pre covid. Maybe, just maybe when that bus connect plan is completed it may ( and i say may) tempt people to use it, but realistically the bus connects does not serve any high density residential areas.

Agreed the current public transport in Galway is dire.

That can be fixed though. BusConnects is a (slow) start but we should be more ambitious than that.

It wouldn't take much time to overhaul the network but would require decisive action over a couple of years, which the city council seem to be incapable. It might happen if we see a change in the top roles in the council or if the ring road is rejected and they're forced into action.

Mrs OBumble

Laviski wrote: »

The terraced and semi's along that bus connects route need to be replaced with apartment blocks or at least townhouses to increase the usage of the space

Where exactly do you think the Bus Connects route goes? Why do you think there is only one?

Laviski wrote: »

Plus there is covid and certain people don't want to share confined spaces especially those with a clear lack of personal Hygiene/respect for others.

This is another very real factor: at this point, we have no idea what level of use of public transport will even be possible at this stage.

Laviski

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Where exactly do you think the Bus Connects route goes? Why do you think there is only one?

https://www.galwaycity.ie/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link

this one. basically connecting seamus quirke road duel bus lane to connect to the single bus lane on dublin road. further optimizes the the routes when coming to inner city, as a car use i actually welcome but it ain't enough. That entire route needs ( example 405 westbound and 409 as they take full advantage of this) to be developed into high density residential. when that happens then we can talk about PT being a real alternative for people.

Laviski

Laviski wrote: »

https://www.galwaycity.ie/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link

this one. basically connecting seamus quirke road duel bus lane to connect to the single bus lane on dublin road. further optimizes the the routes when coming to inner city, as a car use i actually welcome but it ain't enough. That entire route needs ( example 405 westbound and 409 as they take full advantage of this) to be developed into high density residential. when that happens then we can talk about PT being a real alternative for people.

Ah that explains it, you are only looking at one part of the entire story

First off you have the Galway Transport Strategy which was done in 2016 and is up for review this year or next. This contains everything but at a high level in terms of the details - https://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy

Next up you have the various GTS projects underway at the moment. So the Salmon Weir, Cross City Link, Dublin rd redesign and recently added, Martin RAB - https://www.galwaycity.ie/maintenance-strategy-projects

Each of the above has their own website and consultation etc and they go into a lot more detail on the linked pages /sites.

I strongly recommend that you take the time to read through all the information available and then revisit your thoughts. Maybe you will agree with everything being done, maybe you'll agree with 50% but you won't know until you take the time to review everything.

Laviski

yes i have read them, while they are all good in their own right the bus connects from dublin rd through to university road brings real changes to the reliability of the existing PT infra. But as i have said, galway is missing high density so that routes don't need a time table.

I'm sorry to burst bubbles here, but people are not going to choose PT over their car. People on this thread are smoking some good stuff or just away with the fairies.

With price of houses, more and more people will be setting up roots outside of the city and will commute in for work or social. For people in the city like myself, i won't take the bus cause i don't need to get to eyre square i need to go to other places and it is at least 100% faster by car, by the time i waited for bus, changed bus, i would be back home before i got to my destination.

You can incentivise PT and make life difficult for car owners (which i don't object to) but your not gonna get real change/uptake for PT unless person can from point A to point B reliably and also cater for their social needs. Meaning sports,gym,cinema,restaurant,shopping etc etc.

changes on the junctions to better cater for pedestrians and cyclists, are great so long as they use them as it was designed. Expecting mass exodus of single occupancy of cars is just away with the fairies. You will get a single digit increase at best.

people want traffic gone, best way to do that is remove the cars - how do you remove cars, well it's by having great infra. How do you justify/pay for that infra - High density residential. needs to be incentives to remove the vast semi'D and terraced houses for high scale residential. But that's not going to happen.

Laviski

Laviski wrote: »

But as i have said, galway is missing high density so that routes don't need a time table.

Low density means longer distance routes but high frequency can still be achieved with additional buses.

Laviski

that make it super attractive to give up the car.?