Galway traffic

Laviski

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648256#Comment_117648256

even if its never implemented, i see no reason why it can't be discussed here. It still within the context of galway traffic and conversations of the possible solutions that could solve it.

Does anyone know if the fancy traffic control center at city hall is staffed? I heard it was sitting empty for a long time after it was launched. And if so, do they operate outside of 9-5 Mon-Fri?

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619736#Comment_117619736

Saying these kind of arbitrary random dates is defeatism I will never accept.

Ryan committed to a feasibility study:

Light Rail Projects – Wednesday, 24 Mar 2021 – Parliamentary Questions (33rd Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas

The issue is clearly not in Dublin but in Galway - the locals need to push it to the councillors and they need to push it to the Gov.

And here is the issue:

• Most of the councillors are pro-car and/or bigots (as in they are not progressive), so tram is irrelevant to them or something they have no clue about
• Most of the population actually don't know they would prefer tram, mostly out of ignorance, but also due to defeatism spread by people like you

Saying that 24,000 petition signatories is not insubstantial so there is definitely an appetite for light-rail.

Buses are a wrong and inferior solution for Galway and will NOT achieve significant modal shift. Galway should aim much higher, not settle for mediocre solutions and campaign for a better solution.

If you are not against light-rail as you say, why don't you campaign for them with all fervour? 😉

Not only you don't campaign for them, you actively campaign against them including this forum, where you denigrate any sort of light-rail discussion and you spent lot of effort doing so. And the hights is your latest gig where you are basically asking mods to stop the discussion about light-rail, so that you can continue posting about buses here. Right, I see that you are a friend of a open, transparent discussion and a very open-minded person.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117648256#Comment_117648256

You will not shut down a healthy discussion about topic which is relevant to this thread only because you don't like the solutiong suggested and want to push a different one instead. If that were the case then I would need to ask you to stop posting about buses in this thread.

24000 people signed the light-rail petition and feasibility study is coming. This is absolutely relevant to this thread.

McGiver

@Triangle

You're right to a degree. There's no alternative PT so you don't get a view of what people want.

In Dublin, the prices of houses around luas stops are higher. This shows people want to be closer to luas. Fast, efficient and reliable.Now putting in bus lanes would help the reliability, but when the city center is gridlocked, then the busses will be delayed.

So unless you take the cars out of the center (affecting disabled people negatively) you'll never have as reliable service as a light or very light rail system.

These are known facts to us who lived in cities with tram systems. But the locals don't believe and @[Deleted User] is runnign a campaign trying to convince them that buses are better and that they shouldn't want trams. It's bizarre really...

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620179#Comment_117620179

I do. Can you give me the numbers please? I saw something in the NTA study, they were embarassing...

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622666#Comment_117622666

You don't think that cultural fit is important? That's like saying Travellers can all just be housed in standard housing, and no need to think about designing for social connections, access to outdoor space, and someplace reasonable for them to keep their horses. It work for a few - but for very many, It Doesn't.

I'd recommend reading my post again.

It's not about thinking, it's about reality. Culture is not a factor in infrastructure project design. You will not find such factor being considered in any case studies per se. And foremost, policy drives changes in habits - policy does and should change the habits (which is something related to culture you mentioned). Again, this is the reality. If you think PT policy shouldn't change habits, then it's pointless to discuss further, because that's the basic premise of PT policy, especially in a place whch suffers from serious unsustainable issues due to extreme car-dependency. In this situation it's all about changing habits.

Now saying all that - people want trams more than buses, in the whole of developed world. There's studies on this. So don't tell me Galwegians don't want tram due to some special culture of 13 tribes, that's a pure non-sense. It's a myth.

In fact your whole post reads like a colonialist manifesto: the Great European Man coming in to save the ignorant natives from themselves.

This is just absurd...I don't know what to say.🙄

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117654393#Comment_117654393

Exactly my point. I consider an attempt of shutting down discussion around light-rail, frankly, well...bigoted.

24000 signed the light-rail petition, it's a very valid issue. Do the bus evangelists have any similar petition available?

xckjoo

So what's the deal with the new junction on the Headford Road? People seem to me calling it the worst thing to ever happen to Galway and that everyone involved should be hung, drawn and quartered. But I feel like that happened every time the made major junction changes in Galway.

I've driven through it a couple of times and it seemed fine. Could maybe do with longer filter lanes. I've only done BnaD <-> Terryland (i.e. straight through) but no issues with navigating the layout. Is it the disaster or is it just new and scary?

@biko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679685#Comment_117679685

Lay off the personal attacks

I made my reasoning quite clear in an earlier post. That you try to twist that into something its not, has little to do with me.

As for bus preferences, I don't have one. I have a sustainable transport preference which includes walking, cycling, bus, light rail & train. It matters not a jot to me what form I use if it will get me from A to B. Just today I used a train, a bus and a share bike as I am no longer a car owner. Each served a purpose in taking me from A to B and I was happy to use each one. I'll be delighted to use light rail when its built too.

I asked for a mod review by @biko @connemara man etc purely in the context of the thread, that is all, quit trying to make it personal, its not. I am 1000% supporting light rail for Galway and if a mod says keep discussion here, I'll engage in that discussion here. Conversely if the decision is to break it out into its own thread for discussion, I'll engage in the discussion there too, it just won't be a distraction within this thread seeing as its not going to be built before the 2040's (if we're very lucky).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679833#Comment_117679833

You pretty much nailed it. Each time a RAB was removed there was loads of complaining and then things calmed down.

I haven't been through this junction in a long while so I can't speak to its current setup but from what I saw in the schematic in the papers it's not the final layout, at least it doesn't look like the layout that was in the planning documents.

There's the usual bedding in period with each of these junctions as they fine tune the layouts, light sequences etc so I'd say you haven't heard the last of the complaining yet

There were changes from the initial plan following consultation - mostly around access to and from the Menlo / Coolough road.

Haven't been in town in a while to try it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679991#Comment_117679991

Link to alternative final layout? I thought they were calling this done.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117680982#Comment_117680982

My apologies, when I went to look back at the older drawings versus the new ones, they've flipped them 90 degrees. In the recesses of my brain I was expecting a different layout.

It is indeed the final layout. In other news, a taxi driving councilor doesn't approve

https://connachttribune.ie/council-rows-back-on-reduced-delays-projections-for-kirwan-junction/

Cluedo Monopoly

Those new lights at the Menlo Park hotel will cause absolute chaos when traffic ramps up again in September. Crazy stuff, badly planned and designed.

I've been using the new junction at Menlo a good bit since it opened, never really had a problem with it but yesterday the traffic was backed up to the bridge around 5pm and when I got to the junction cars going out the Headford road were almost meeting the back of the cars stopped at the 2nd set of lights they installed for Menlo traffic.

They need to sort that out before September or else it will be absolute chaos.

buzz11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117665180#Comment_117665180

Good question -- the traffic light sequences on my regular route never seem to change and the small cameras are always pointing the same way...I think your onto something

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698225#Comment_117698225

Those lights are definitely one of the main problems. The light for turning from Coolough Rd should be very short and the Headford Rd should be on a longer priority.

Google Maps road layout is updated for the new junction now, however the traffic data is still shown on the roundabout layout!

McGiver

Great article mentioning a US example of a failure resulting from car-centric city planning.

When I heard about this plan I posted sarcastically on social media that Robert Moses had been the consultant involved.

Moses was the most powerful unelected official in New York for over 50 years, a civil servant who built bridges and highways all over that city and state, and whose staggering career is the subject of one of the greatest non-fiction books of all time, The Power Broker by Robert Caro.

Moses came to power in the twenties and was a powerful force for five decades, but his works are now linked with the savage deterioration of the standard of living in New York during the seventies, when the fruits of his policies came home to roost. Isolated communities couldn’t access services and facilities, while once-thriving neighbourhoods which had literally been slashed in two by motorways became violent ghettoes.

Michael Moynihan: Another dual carriageway looms as we battle to keep green space in the city (irishexaminer.com)

To me it seems that the NTA & councils (not just GCC) are following outdated US city planning model which is 50 years behind current European way of thinking & city planning practice. This was indeed confirmed by a source who has dealings with the GCC planning policies as part of their daily work...

What needs to change?

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679959#Comment_117679959

On light-rail

It's not personal at all, I don't care who you are, but you come across as having an agenda. I'd like to ask you to stop actively campaigning against light-rail on this thread including but not limited to shutting down an open discussion about it 😃.

...seeing as its not going to be built before the 2040's (if we're very lucky).

This your last sentence didn't confirm that you're "1000% supporting light-rail", quite contrary. It was unnecessary. Let's leave it there.

Let's run through your PT options

I have a sustainable transport preference which includes walking, cycling, bus, light rail & train.

Walking & cycling will never gain a significant modal shift in Galway given:

• Climate
• Suburban sprawl
• Car-dependent culture (people "spoilt" by and used to cars)
• Decades of car centric city planning
• Bigoted Council & NTA further hampering the planning in favour of these two modes

Whilst walking & cycling should be propagated and designed for in any liveable city as much as possible (at least in its extended centre), its not realistic to expect a significant % of people to use this mode in Galway. So it's out of question in terms of core PT strategy as the main mode.

Train could be an important part of the PT strategy, but not in Galway City. I would question that given the poor shape of Iarnod Eireann including low railway density (compared to Europe) whether this is a viable option to be part of core PT policy in Galway City. I don't think it is. Saying that, in Europe you would have at least one more stop in a situation similar to between Oranmore and Galway Station e.g. in Renmore and/or Roscam in the local context. The same goes for dual track, in urban context it would be certainly dual-track from Oranmore if not Athenry. That should be explored as an addition to the PT strategy, but it's nothing major or significant in terms of PT within the city boundaries.

So then you're left with either bus or light-rail as any realistic option for the bulk of the traffic and as the core of the PT strategy. As I explained earlier, light-rail has a much higher chance of success of bringing the modal shift in a car-dependent population (it has a better user experience), it is faster, it has lower space requirement than 2x bus lanes, it has higher throughput and it allows planning ahead along with city planning (and grow the city in conjunction). Bus fails on all these aspects.

I bet all my money that if you keep aiming at "BusConnects" you'll get a mediocre bus network in the end with the same issues as now by the time it's done and the car traffic volumes will be much higher and more unsustainable. You will be again be caught in a reactive mode trying to catch up to further sprawl/growth and won't achieve any significant modal shift. I.e. you will be in the same situation as now, again trying to react to unsustainable volume of traffic and behind European standard of PT. PT build around buses is good for provincial towns but not for a sustainable city of this size.

The BusConnects are only a distraction by the heavily car-lobby influenced NTA & councils to throw a little bone to the PT supporters in my opinion. In the end it will be a half-baked implementation and car will rule further in the city planning and design. With BusConnects car-driven design can still dominate via a backdoor - they both use roads. Whereas if you put light-rail in the core of the PT strategy, this directly challenges car-driven design as the road simply has to be released for rail track. It's a change of paradigm.

Light-rail well integrated into city planning and built ahead to the areas of future growth is the only answer for a sustainable PT in Galway. Galway should strive, campaign for and implement a proper sustainable solution not some mediocre patched up bus network. Anyone who does is to be commended – all respect to Catherine Connolly for doing that for years.

Mrs OBumble

What is the difference between light-rail and train?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701542#Comment_117701542

Light rail is for middle class people

Storm 10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679685#Comment_117679685

Ryan committing to anything is a complete waste he was never any good in any job he had he is all talk. Light rail in Galway will never happen imo population is to small to support it and the cost would be massive. Frequent and a fast cross City bus service is the only way and use the Quin Bridge, there has been a very big increase of new buses in Galway recently and you don't have to wait long for one now trouble is there is no room in the City for bus lanes so where is the space for train tracks going to come from.

xckjoo

Is there anything to be said for a monorail? I hear North Haverbrook have one and you never hear them complain about traffic

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117703366#Comment_117703366

And the cosmic ballet....goes on.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701049#Comment_117701049

It will certainly be a challenge to get significant modal shift to walking and cycling but I wouldn't say it will never happen. Copenhagan, Oslo, Helsinki and Amsterdam all have to deal with climates that might be viewed as at least as challenging as Galway, some more so, but have all achieved significant increases in cycling modal share.

Low density is definitely a hurdle that has more significance in Galway but we're still a small city. Most of the city is still within 6km of the main secondary schools and if we could get a significant percentage of the secondary school students cycling to school that would eliminate a huge number of car journeys. This would be easier to achieve than a general modal shift because many parents, if they believed cycling was safe, would be happier not having to act as chauffeurs for those journeys, and many kids would value the extra independence it gives them.

The entrenched culture, both of the authorities and current drivers, is indeed a huge hurdle but culture can change (gradually). People grow older, and retire, young people who cycled to school will be more inclined to cycle to work. It's encouraging to see the changes that can happen when someone like Owen Keegan or Robert Burns get into senior positions in a Dublin local authority. Sure, not many people who live in Barna are going to be willing to cycle to Parkmore, but those who move into Augustine Hill and/or who work in Bonham Quay, are going to find the choosing not to drive a car on a daily basis is a much more realistic option.

Change will be slow but the momentum is there from other cities and countries and Galway won't be unaffected by that. Increased cycling and walking will happen here too but, as with many other things, Galway will be dragged along kicking and screaming and not, unfortunately, leading the way.

what_traffic

Good post Unrealisitic, there is no Silver bullet.

I always say - if weather is such barrier, why is there such differences between certain parts of the City when it comes to walking and cycling. The CSO stats show this. Is really far more wind and rain in Knocknacarra v's Salthill or is it just that the older parts of City were designed with walking and cycling in mind? (Salthill has high walking and cycling stats for people commuting to work and education)

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704480#Comment_117704480

Perhaps Salthill is a lot closer to educational institutions (it even hosts one/two) and has a lot more rental housing occupied by people in education, and lacks public transport options?

My website gets regular queries from people looking for a bus between Salthill and NUIG, especially the north end of the campus. Whereas there's there's three city-bus-services from Knocknacarra to NUIG, and two go through to GMIT as well

Another damning major climate change report today. Can the proposed ring road, that is projected to move people away from public and active travel, really be approved in the next 3 weeks amid these reports and a declared climate emergency...?

"TII stated that approximately 26,000 tonnes of CO2 would be generated by the proposed road in the opening year, and 35,800 tonnes by 2039 “with the main contributory factor being an increase in vehicle kilometres travelled”.

The document also projected that modal share for peak hour car commuting would increase to 67.3% by 2039, while just 5% of all commutes would be by bus. The modal share for cycle commuting would reduce, decreasing to 2.8% in 2039."