Galway traffic

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496171#Comment_118496171

The brochure is still online and it doesn't seem to suggest that.

https://virtualengage.arup.com/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link/index.html

It refers to "a time-regulated bus lane designation over Salmon Weir Bridge". This seems to last from 7AM to 7PM with full access outside that. There is a reference to a bus gate but no suggestion that it will be any different to those in Dublin or the UK, which are basically paint and signs, with some enforcement by camera.

The only mention of bollards is "The delivery times for Shop Street will also apply to Eyre Square North/Rosemary Avenue and to Newtownsmith. Access to these areas will be regulated by retractable bollards, similar to those currently in use on Shop Street." This seems to be to protect newly pedestrianised areas outside delivery hours rather than to physically block access to the bus lanes.

In addition to busses, the Salmon Weir Bridge is proposed to be accessed by taxis 24/7 and by delivery vehicles from 10AM to 1PM. With that structure it's unlikely to be practical to give some sort of fob to everyone entitled to access it.

Maybe there was more detail given elsewhere that has different information?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496522#Comment_118496522

I really can't recall, though your point about 7 to 7 does ring a bell.

Maybe I'm mixing up the sections and the controls to be used as I believe bus gates will be the primary control on College rd. I'd have to go digging to find what controls are planned for each section

yer man!

Just had a look at the plans there for the Salthill cycleway trial, I can see they only have the two way cycle lane from Grattan Road to the end of the prom and then it reverts to a westbound protected lane with an eastbound shared car/bicycle lane. In my opinion, I don't think this is setting the plan up for success. They need to have it two way protected cycleway for the whole length or don't bother at all. If cars will be driving slowly behind cyclists and not able to overtake, nobody will be happy.

Yeah it's no ideal but council want to do minimal changes for the trial. At least bikes coming from Barna Road have the option of going behind the golf course for much or that - but that path can be a bit isolated for solo cyclists or pedestrians.

We'll most likely see "salmon cycling" on the one-way lane. Hopefully it's wide enough!

ratracer

I looked at those plans today also, and in my submission I made the point that both of those schemes have been designed to fail by the council.

There isn’t a hope that this trial will be successful for anyone. It should have stopped at Blackrock and not changed the traffic flow from there to Knocknacarra cross.

I am also more concerned about the emergency services access out towards Bearna on this route than I am about through the Bus Gate to the hospital.

It pains me to say this as someone who would advocate for safe cycling facilities through the city, but this is bad design.

yer man!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497335#Comment_118497335

There's even some sections where instead of putting In a two way cycleway they opt for a 3 metre wide median. At least it looks like it will indeed facilitate salmon cycling against the flow but indeed it's looks like its designed to fail. I said that in my submission today too.

ThePentagon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497335#Comment_118497335

I live in Knocknacarra along the new one-way section of the main road which is part of the cycleway proposals. I'm not a motorist so I'm looking forward to this new amenity (not least the reduction in noise from motor traffic passing my front door).

Nevertheless, I fear the one-way section will be no more than a temporary arrangement. I can't see how the huge current volume of westbound car traffic can be diverted elsewhere (for example up to the crossroads at the top of Threadneedle Road) without generating a chaotic level of disruption in the short term. It does seem, as you say, this has been designed to fail by the council.

In addition to this, I predict firm opposition to this set-up from local stakeholders such as businesses (e.g. petrol stations) and residents (e.g. Dun na Carraige residents). If there is no more than light usage of that section of the cycle lane, the temptation will be there to shelve it.

I hope I'm wrong because if a cycling culture is to develop in Galway, in place of the current car culture, safe cycling facilities need to be in place , and long enough for people to become used to them.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497335#Comment_118497335

That's encouraging. I hope you're right.

topcat77

Just looked at the plans and I'm not a fan to be honest. i can't understand why they'd sacrifice two way traffic and retain parking.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496171#Comment_118496171

We live in hope.

http://i.imgur.com/gQKOVTZ.gif

what_traffic

duplicate post

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118496522#Comment_118496522

I think you might be on the right path here, whatever has gone before in Ireland is generally a good rule of thumb on what Councils do here.

I know in Manchester City Centre - have seen bollards been used for bus only access(not taxis), but not aware of any City in Ireland using them.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497335#Comment_118497335

I think you are on the money ratracer; designed to fail. General traffic flow for option two switches at Pollnarooma entrance (why this small estate has such a wide entrance/exit is beyond me, could do a u-turn with an artic truck at the estate entrance). There is enough room for 2 way cycle path to this point here as well if the car parking around Blackrock was removed.

More news on the Salthill bike lanes. If you haven't done so, please make a submission in favour of option 2, submission link is also below

https://www.galwaycity.ie/gccapps/index.php/619865?newtest=Y&lang=en

https://irishcycle.com/2022/01/19/salthill-cycle-path-as-opposition-and-misinformation-starts-local-groups-call-for-public-support-of-option-2

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499376#Comment_118499376

Cause a lot of people in Galway drive down and park on the prom and go for a walk... This is in the thousands a day... That is there leisure activity... That is the most used leisure activity in the city...

Lets look what happened when they got rid of parking during COVID... Residential areas in Salthill were inundated with cars been parked for walkers... Walkers were there first and they use it heavily...

topcat77

There are 3 car parks you can use along the prom (leasure land, salthill & tofts) and more could be developed. Parking along the prom causes traffic congestion, especially the people who park against the flow of traffic (In some European countries this practice is illegal). Option 2 is the only viable choice in my opinion.

zell12

Local radio host a few months ago said that a lot of people like to park on the Prom and just look at the sea

zell12

Pre-pandemic, a local councilor said there is not enough parking in Salthill

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503768#Comment_118503768

I'm curious about the statement "walkers were there first". When I was the age my own kids are now we all used to cycle to Salthill on our own from the other side of the city. Now I won't let my own kids do that, and most other parents seem to feel the same way, that it is just too dangerous. People travelling to Salthill by bike were definitely "there first" but they have been squeezed out by drivers, whether they're driving to the Prom to walk or driving somewhere else. Giving up a small amount of space to try to allow more people back in on bikes would only be a baby step in terms of addressing that imbalance. And you'll find that some of those arriving on bikes are the same that currently arrive in cars.

Travelling out the Prom this morning I counted 47 cars parked along the roadway between the seafront car park and Blackrock. There were at least twice as many free spaces in that carpark and the one beside the aquarium. So no need for anyone to be deprived of their walk along the Prom if they can just park in the carpark and walk from there.

Average car occupancy in Ireland is 1.1 so those 47 cars would represent 52 Prom users. Probably even less when you consider the vehicles that are parked there permanently for advertising purposes. How many of those 50 or so people would be seriously inconvenienced by having to use the car park instead? And how many more people would travel in by bike to school and work if they felt safer doing so? A lot more than 50, certainly.

I also noted this morning that only one of the blue badge spaces along the Prom was in use at that point. I didn't catch how many were in use in the car park. But it's good to see that the Council plans provide for an increase in the number of blue badge spaces so that those who really need it will still have access to parking along that stretch. A couple more pedestrian crossing points wouldn't go amiss though.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504483#Comment_118504483

Screw the cycleway, the prom should be narrowed to allow for more car parking spaces!

Yeah this notion of cars were here first and it's been the same forever isn't true.

The numbers of cars on the road is always increasing and an important point that many miss is cars are getting bigger and using up more of the road space.

People cycled the prom from it's early days but have been squeezed out over recent decades.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504467#Comment_118504467

Very true... Happens a lot in winter... Older people can't take the cold or wind and like to sit by the sea and have a cup of tea...

Seriously, I don't think some people realise the popularity of the prom especially on busy days...

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506461#Comment_118506461

More people cycling to the prom will free up the car parks for the elderly

And sure theres always silverstrand if they want to drive right up to the edge and sit in the car. Many do. It still doesnt mean we should design an amenity solely for the elderly or infirm.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506461#Comment_118506461

I've done that myself in the past, but I've never parked on the road to do it. Maybe some do, but it wouldn't be a comfortable option for me personally, having to crane the head to view the ocean.

I've always used (marked in red) this parking in winter when I wanted to do that

There's 46 parking spaces marked there, including disabled. Purely anecdotal and based on personal experience, but anytime I've ever gone out there in winter there are ALWAYS spaces there.

That car park currently holds about 180 cars. Long term my guess is they will do something like this to expand the parking there which could bring up the capacity to near 300

Its also worth mentioning that the council really increased the amount of bike parking in Salthill over the last 2 years. In the above car park alone, they added capacity for 60 bikes at the 3 lamp post sections. There's now capacity for 192 bikes between Toft Park and Blackrock. Thats likely to be expanded further in the years to come and anyone choosing the bike over the car to go there means one less car to be parked.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506615#Comment_118506615

Good point. Agree this is the location for viewing the ocean from a Car. If you use the prom regular its obvious that this is where it mostly occurs.

Re the bike parking in it. Don't know how that passed a Safety Audit, placing the bike parking where they did within this car park. I think it was more an anti-car parking device rather than bike parking provision.

Hopefully the bike parking will get moved to a better location once the Greenway is in place, doubt it will happen in 2022 though.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118506461#Comment_118506461

With the engine idling to keep them warm, poisoning those around them with toxic emissions.

Released by the Galway Urban Greenway Alliance regarding the Salthill bike lane trial options

Salthill Temporary Cycleway

Public consultation now open for the Salthill Cycleway.

In line with our friends at Galway Cycling and other cycle-bus communities, we support Option Two. 

Option Two is the more viable option for children (and their parents) in Galway city to get back on their bikes, and for the wide range of people who want to go to and through Salthill:

- Keeps the Prom two-way for vehicles, which is very important for bus users

- Keeps the Prom footpath in its entirety for people walking, strolling, wheeling and using mobility aids

- Full access for emergency services

- More taxi ranks than other choice

- Maintains ⅓ of car parking along the Prom

- c.800 free car park spaces will remain fully accessible - free car parking in all council car parks (c.450 between Leisureland, Claude Toft, Seapoint), all existing car parking spaces on side streets, and all on-street parking in the Salthill retail area

More needs to be done to ensure people of all ages and abilities can enjoy safe access to the Prom. Salthill is currently far from being a paradise for people walking, cycling, and those with limited mobility:

- Narrow footpaths.

- Too few safe crossing points with short light phases and poles blocking the footpaths.

- Big steps and no handrail to get out of Seapoint car park.

- Not one Age Friendly car space. 

People with disabilities were just as low in the pecking order when it came to the design of Salthill and the Prom. And the leaders who have tolerated this privileged and exclusive design for years and years, when they had the power to improve this public space for all, should be ashamed.

So, naturally, we’re disappointed that Galway City Council engineers did not take our requests on board. 

We’ve asked, and will ask again as part of this consultation, for the council to provide:

1* More pedestrian crossings - much more, especially as Prom parking will switch sides on the road

2* More blue badge parking

3* Parking for people with disabilities at Ladies Beach needs to be on seaside for direct safe access to the beach and beach access mats (and the imminent Changing Places facility)

4* New Age Friendly spaces at the seafront of Seapoint car park, so older people and people with less mobility can sit in their cars to enjoy views of the gorgeous Galway Bay. (This is the cheapest and fastest action the Council can do for accessibility - we can’t understand why it hasn’t been done yet?)

Finally, there’s been some comments about ‘cyclists’ not needing this cycleway. In a way, this is correct: the people you see right now cycling from Knocknacarra to Salthill by Genitan Hill will continue to do so. These are confident, active, mostly middle-aged and able-bodied people.

The Salthill Cycleway is for **people you don’t see cycling** to the beach or the Salthill shops or to school: children, teenagers, women, families, people with disabilities, anyone and everyone who is frightened by the thought of ‘sharing the road’ with trucks, SUVs, and buses.

Connecting the city centre to Knocknacarra via the flat coast and Salthill will give more people a choice they currently do not have: a way to cycle 3km safely, protected from traffic, to school, shops, sports, and home.

We’re asking for your support for Option 2. The public consultation online form is available at https://galwaycity.ie/gccapps/index.php/619865  or you can simply email activetravel@galwaycity.ie to say ‘I support Option 2’ (give your name & address).

The deadline is 4pm on Friday, 28 January.

Full information, including technical engineering drawings (another frustrating point of poor access!) and FAQs document, is available from Galway City Council at www.galwaycity.ie/salthilltemporarycycleway

Released by the Galway Urban Greenway Alliance regarding the Salthill bike lane trial options. Important to note the points raised regarding accessibility and the current situation in the area and what they are and have been asking for

Salthill Temporary Cycleway

Public consultation now open for the Salthill Cycleway.

In line with our friends at Galway Cycling and other cycle-bus communities, we support Option Two. 

Option Two is the more viable option for children (and their parents) in Galway city to get back on their bikes, and for the wide range of people who want to go to and through Salthill:

- Keeps the Prom two-way for vehicles, which is very important for bus users

- Keeps the Prom footpath in its entirety for people walking, strolling, wheeling and using mobility aids

- Full access for emergency services

- More taxi ranks than other choice

- Maintains ⅓ of car parking along the Prom

- c.800 free car park spaces will remain fully accessible - free car parking in all council car parks (c.450 between Leisureland, Claude Toft, Seapoint), all existing car parking spaces on side streets, and all on-street parking in the Salthill retail area

More needs to be done to ensure people of all ages and abilities can enjoy safe access to the Prom. Salthill is currently far from being a paradise for people walking, cycling, and those with limited mobility:

- Narrow footpaths.

- Too few safe crossing points with short light phases and poles blocking the footpaths.

- Big steps and no handrail to get out of Seapoint car park.

- Not one Age Friendly car space. 

People with disabilities were just as low in the pecking order when it came to the design of Salthill and the Prom. And the leaders who have tolerated this privileged and exclusive design for years and years, when they had the power to improve this public space for all, should be ashamed.

So, naturally, we’re disappointed that Galway City Council engineers did not take our requests on board. 

We’ve asked, and will ask again as part of this consultation, for the council to provide:

1* More pedestrian crossings - much more, especially as Prom parking will switch sides on the road

2* More blue badge parking

3* Parking for people with disabilities at Ladies Beach needs to be on seaside for direct safe access to the beach and beach access mats (and the imminent Changing Places facility)

4* New Age Friendly spaces at the seafront of Seapoint car park, so older people and people with less mobility can sit in their cars to enjoy views of the gorgeous Galway Bay. (This is the cheapest and fastest action the Council can do for accessibility - we can’t understand why it hasn’t been done yet?)

Finally, there’s been some comments about ‘cyclists’ not needing this cycleway. In a way, this is correct: the people you see right now cycling from Knocknacarra to Salthill by Genitan Hill will continue to do so. These are confident, active, mostly middle-aged and able-bodied people.

The Salthill Cycleway is for **people you don’t see cycling** to the beach or the Salthill shops or to school: children, teenagers, women, families, people with disabilities, anyone and everyone who is frightened by the thought of ‘sharing the road’ with trucks, SUVs, and buses.

Connecting the city centre to Knocknacarra via the flat coast and Salthill will give more people a choice they currently do not have: a way to cycle 3km safely, protected from traffic, to school, shops, sports, and home.

We’re asking for your support for Option 2. The public consultation online form is available at https://galwaycity.ie/gccapps/index.php/619865  or you can simply email activetravel@galwaycity.ie to say ‘I support Option 2’ (give your name & address).

The deadline is 4pm on Friday, 28 January.

Full information, including technical engineering drawings (another frustrating point of poor access!) and FAQs document, is available from Galway City Council at www.galwaycity.ie/salthilltemporarycycleway

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504684#Comment_118504684

Great Sample...

Go back in a sunny day in July... If it was windier this morning how many cyclists would there have been...

I don't think ye get it... I remeber what the residential areas were like during COVID and the parking was taken away... It was mayhem, so go have your cycle lane and create for the businesses & residents of Salthill. You will never get cycle lane for a long while and cycling will be put back years...

This venture is destined for failure the way it is set up... Free parking in Bailey Point might mitigate some of the risk but I severely doubt it...

As for your more than 50 using this cycle lane for work.. Look at the numbers, just about to get that... We have only 2.5% of people using bikes to work... Come back in the evening and do the same survey, do it on fine days, do it on weekends... Trying to say that the Prom is not busy is pretty laughable...

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504817#Comment_118504817

Lets be clear here... Cars and Bikes shared the road... Now you want to removed certain amount access for cars be it parking or one way...

Car owners are not asking for bikes to be banned from the road on the prom... It is cyclists that want stop others from doing something not car owners...

I think that the idea is not sensible considering Dr. Mannix road and the possibility to link it to other roads is very possible (lower Salthill rd, few other options)