Galway traffic

yer man!

If there was only a way for us to see if a cycleway would work on the prom or, perhaps some sort of trial, that would be good.

I read some of the comments on the Galway advertiser FB page on this scheme and good lord! One poster said all cyclists should be jailed and are a cancer, another saying they were the most selfish people to ever exist.

ben.schlomo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507818#Comment_118507818

Ya Facebook is a great outlet for the great unwashed. Every looper with an opinion hangs out there.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507007#Comment_118507007

Ya submitted some of these recommendations when making my own submission. More Zebra /Ped crossings are needed along the Prom

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507978#Comment_118507978

I'm a bit conflicted re zebra crossings.

Great idea, in theory.

But if vehicle-users don't stop at them, they actually make things worse. Like the lethal one that used to be on the Headford Rd.

A sample of parts of Galway where parking was removed, just went looking out of curiosity. I wonder how many would argue that this was a mistake and should be turned back to parking again?

Spanish Arch

https://twitter.com/PGaillimh/status/1046859586135838721?s=20

Shop Street

Eyre Square

Courthouse

Fairgreen (best I can find is old sat imagery)

Raven Terrace

I wonder is there anymore?

Bobeagleburger

Shop Street with traffic wasn't pleasant.

Not much change at Raven Terrace

CowboyTed

Lads,

We can bitch and complain till the cows come home but their is a simple solution for all of us...

Build out the prom towards the sea and put a cycleway on the car side... That way we could increase the defences for the prom from flooding and keep everything generally the same... It would be best for all..

CowboyTed

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507504#Comment_118507504

"Great Sample...Go back in a sunny day in July"

Whenever these discussion come around one of the big concepts thrown out there is that Galway shouldn't provide for people on bikes as they only come out when the weather is nice. So, if I go back on a sunny day in July, I'd expect to see more cars and a whole lot more people on bikes.

"... If it was windier this morning how many cyclists would there have been..."

By the same token, if it had been windier yesterday I'd expect to see fewer cars (fewer people out walking the Prom) and maybe fewer bicycles.

"I don't think ye get it... I remeber what the residential areas were like during COVID and the parking was taken away... It was mayhem, so go have your cycle lane and create for the businesses & residents of Salthill. You will never get cycle lane for a long while and cycling will be put back years..."

Two things here. During COVID, parking the full length of the Prom and the carparks was taken away. Under this plan the carparks are retained and they make up be bulk of available spaces. Businesses in Ireland and elsewhere consistently overestimate the number of their customers who arrive by car and forecast a drop in sales from pedestrian or bike access measures when the opposite is what actually happens. We have our own comparable example of this close to home where the Coastal Mobility Route was put in in Dublin as a temporary COVID measure. There was similar histrionics in the lead up to its introduction but now 72% of businesses in Blackrock are reporting increased turnover and want it retained. Another 20% are reporting sales remained stable. Only 8% are reporting that sales dropped and you have to wonder how much of that is real and how much is down to natural reluctance among some to admit they were wrong.

"This venture is destined for failure the way it is set up... Free parking in Bailey Point might mitigate some of the risk but I severely doubt it..."

I'd definitely agree with you that the way the Council Executive has gone about this seems destined to generate wholly unnecessary controversy. The original motion the Councillors voted on was amended to avoid the need for any one way traffic but the Council Executive has still gone ahead and put in short stretch of one way under Option 2. I've said it earlier in this thread, that there's a perception among many, including some Councillors, that this is an attempt by the Council Executive to put Councillors and ordinary Galwegians in their place. They didn't like being told to put in a cycle lane when the idea hadn't originated in their own engineering departments so they're going to do it in a manner which creates unnecessary friction to try to teach Councillors and voters a lesson.

So it's not perfect but, at the end of the day, it's a six month trial which legally has to be removed when the trial period is over. Then it's either dumped completely or new plans are drawn up which should reflect the lessons learned from the trial and there's a new consultation process. So, despite its flaws, I think it's worth giving it a go for a limited time.

"As for your more than 50 using this cycle lane for work.. Look at the numbers, just about to get that... We have only 2.5% of people using bikes to work... "

I don't know where you're getting 2.5% from? The latest figure I've seen from the CSO is 3% nationally but that's the entire workforce, including those (like some in our City Council Executive😉) who are travelling from other parts of the county or even from halfway across the country, to their place of work. When you get into urban areas the numbers are higher. On the western side of Galway city they percentage is already 6-7% in many areas and I believe it's actually 10% in one or two electoral wards. And that's with a very hostile cycling environment such that only the most hardened will venture out on bikes. Imagine the potential if people were actually encouraged to cycle and given safe facilities to do so. Safety, not the weather, is consistently shown to be the chief reason why more people don't cycle in Ireland.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118508335#Comment_118508335

I'd be the same in an Irish Context, they are rarely done well here. On current prom layout, would not put them in. Road widths are so so wide, with these trials as the road widths are much narrower, plus it is a 6 month trial & they are much easier to install.

For permanent ones, good overhead lighting is always needed for them, make them brighter than the surrounding area.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509803#Comment_118509803

I love how this is simplest solution you have come up with for a 6 month trial!

But ya a good chance this might happen when the Ring Road funding will be diverted towards the Major Galway Flood defence wall project in 10yr time

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118508355#Comment_118508355

The big transport mistake was that done in the main from lates 80's onwards was that this surface parking as such was not taken out of the system per se - it was all converted and more capacity added into the system with Multi-Story car-parking.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510983#Comment_118510983

Afraid still making the same mistakes today.

Just spotted the following in today's Connacht Tribune: https://connachttribune.ie/councillors-rule-out-multi-storey-car-park-proposal-on-dyke-road/

Certain Cllr's just do not believe that people will move to other transport options.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847628#Comment_117847628

This is starting next Monday. https://connachttribune.ie/works-to-transform-martin-roundabout-into-signal-junction-to-get-underway-next-week/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511200#Comment_118511200

Yeah, to be fair it makes it very difficult to for any councillors to vote for that motion without concrete plans for how many P&R's are going to be built, their locations and the PT linls + frequency of service. GCC have been lacking in this area but maybe they will come out with something soon

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510846#Comment_118510846

Last point...

https://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy

Appendix A Transport Demand...

Page 7

I am not anti cycling, I actually want it to be successful but I see a big backlash from these half arsed ideas...

There is not target set for this plan... How will we judge success or failure? What we will get is a big argument in the end.. Perception will win rather than any hard facts, this will create division which result a mess...

Say putting in a sea wall defence would be a winner all round... Done well at 10,000 euro a meter we are talking about 8 million, about that cost 5 traffic light systems in galway but it would not only offer a cycle lane it would also defend Salthill against flooding...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511858#Comment_118511858

The NHTS is a good source of data and a great tool to have, however as even the most recent one from 2018 showed, it only surveyed 5,906 households in total for the country. Not knocking it, but the census is a better dataset, which I posted a lot of detail from

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118490783#Comment_118490783

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511858#Comment_118511858

Sure - the cycle lane can me moved once the environmental impact and planning process is completed for that in 10+ years.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118507528#Comment_118507528

That's a huge part of the problem. So many people think the road is currently being 'shared' when the opposite is the case. Just to give an example. These shots are taken in September during a short lived attempt to bring kids to school via the Dyke Road.

This driver tried to overtake me on a narrow stretch into oncoming traffic. She then tried to pull in between me and the child in front of me, who I was much closer to before the driver started trying to squeeze in between us, forcing me and the second child with me into the wall. When I slapped the side of the car to alert her to the fact that she was pulling in on top us she wound down the window and told me that 'it was the car behind that beeped'. She was referring to an incident before the bend where a BMW behind this grey car had decided the black car in front in the picture was too slow in passing us. This driver didn't even consider that I could have had any issue with her own outrageously dangerous passing manoeuvre, which was illegal on at least three different counts.

Then you have this tulip who seemingly sees nothing wrong with overtaking young kids at speed on the blind bend at the Black Box even though, if they do meet a car or van coming around that bend, the only choice they have is to hit them head on or pull back in left and wipe out the kids.

That driver was quickly followed by driver number 3, who seemingly thinks it's OK to try to overtake kids into oncoming traffic, forcing the oncoming driver to brake to avoid a collision and still having to pull back in dangerously close to these kids' mother on the bicycle in front.

This is why your statement that "car owners are not asking for bikes to be banned from the road on the prom" is completely wrong headed. Car owners don't need to ask for bike owners to be banned from the road because they have already excluded all but the bravest or most foolhardy from travelling by bicycle. The Dyke Road is the logical straight line route for those living in Castlelawn, Tirellan, Crestwood, Carrig Ban etc. to travel to city city centre schools. It's a 12 minute journey and should be a no brainer. But behaviour like this meant that this family's attempt lasted less than two weeks. It is 100% true to say that these kids and their mother have been bullied off that road by the behaviour of drivers. And it's not just a small minority. It's multiple drivers every day all over town and all over the country. For many drivers the mere fact that they successfully passed you without killing or seriously injuring you seems to make them think that they're 'sharing the road'.

People on bikes, and people who would like to be on bikes but are excluded from doing so by the behaviour of too many drivers, are only asking to be actually be allowed to share the road. Even the small stretch being asked for on the Prom will still leave more than three quarters of that road space for people who choose to drive. They're just asking to not have their lives, and their kids' lives, put at mortal risk on a daily basis.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512198#Comment_118512198

Yikes, thats scary stuff alright, one of the reasons I am glued to the middle of the lane anymore (primary position), regardless. After 3 close passes in one day a few months back that each nearly wiped me out I adopted this and have had zero dangerous passes since.

Loads of horns beeping at me, but I can live with that, and I mean "live" in the literal sense

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512330#Comment_118512330

Yes, I learned to do that through near death experiences too. In the first couple of km of my commute, where there are a succession of bends and then straights, I'll be out in the centre approaching the bends and then pull in tight on the straights and wave drivers to overtake me. This is in the interest of neighbourly relations and trying to get people who don't cycle to understand that you're not taking primary position to be an asshole but only to ensure that overtakes happen where it's safe to do so. 90% of people who drive but don't cycle are not even aware that primary position on bends, approach right turns etc. is actually recommended by the RSA.

The kids generally gravitate towards the left hand side of the road so on the Dyke Road journeys above I was behind them in primary position. In the first picture I was physically squeezed back into the left by the driver when she came alongside and tried to pull in. In the last picture I was in the centre of the marked lane but in the second picture I'd actually moved out towards the centre of the road to try to deter the driver I could feel coming up from doing a dangerous overtake. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510932#Comment_118510932

This trail will set cycling back... Not understanding about living in Salthill and Knocknacarra... Traffic in this area is generally not that bad but introduce this and it will cause mayhem...

Galway needs another bridge not having one is driving all traffic into town... The last bridge was built 35 years ago, in 28 years we will have no fossil fuel cars on the road... Galway doesn't have enough bridges for the population it has... Objecting to the bypass is just going to slow down Public Transport and Cycling plans...

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512015#Comment_118512015

Galway has the highest % of people commuting by walking out of all 5 cities at 16.4%. It also has the second highest % of cyclists at 5.8%. That kinda puts to bed the argument that people won't walk or cycle because rain

Na... Just the worst traffic due to being the only major city without a bypass... Galway has been stuck at that 5% number not for over 15 years... Well done... Has barely improved 1% in 15 years...

Think of all the bike to work schemes that were taken, but only 2.5% of people bike to work...

I am just showing what ye are trying isn't working... But keep on trying stuff that is failing...

xckjoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512969#Comment_118512969

The only thing that's been tried in the last 4 decades in Galway is giving cars priority over everything else. Walking, cycling, PT are all afterthoughts and barely thought of as all. If the percentage of people cycling has been steady at 5% then that's a miracle. So you're dead right when you want them to stop trying the stuff that's failing.

While we're at it, there is no bypass on the cards. And we've already got a bridge due before the end of the year. Cars could run off our recycled farts and output pure oxygen and we'd still have the same traffic issue. It's a matter of the physical space they take up.

Some more pics of days gone by in relation to removal of parking

Mainguard St (1994)

Quay St (1980's)

Sparch Area

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118508335#Comment_118508335

Statistically, raising the crossing to the same level as the foot path, narrowing the carriageway at the approach, and having a contrasting surface colour not just white stripes, all help to make them safer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512969#Comment_118512969

Again, there isn't even a bypass being proposed. There's a ring road to be used mostly for internal city travel and the roads inside it to be used for travel/queueing to and from the ring road and all other city trips that map apps determine quicker than travelling out to the ring road.

Bike to Work or even free bikes don't make unsafe infrastructure any more inviting. Safe infrastructure isn't for the middle aged men you currently see cycling - it's for the people you don't current see cycling.

Laviski

" Keeps the Prom footpath in its entirety for people walking, strolling, wheeling and using mobility aids"

yeah, of course we won't find cyclists on it.....

"c.800 free car park spaces will remain fully accessible - free car parking in all council car parks (c.450 between Leisureland, Claude Toft, Seapoint), all existing car parking spaces on side streets, and all on-street parking in the Salthill retail area"

Parking at Leisureland should be for Leisureland, some days when going there its hard to get a space when going in and its not because the place is busy....

the most productive route would be on Dr mannix road all the way into fr griffin road and/or sea road where it would cover schools. Obviously it would be challenging provide in the middle section of that but can be done.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118515724#Comment_118515724

the most productive route would be on Dr mannix road all the way into fr griffin road and/or sea road where it would cover schools.

That route would serve a load of kids going to and from school and should absolutely be done and I hope after the Salthill cycleway becomes permanent, as more locals use it, that it will drive requests for more infrastructure. As you have pointed out, we should be putting in safe infrastructure everywhere to facilitate the journeys to and from school