Galway traffic

cooperguy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So it's not really a non-car development then.

Covenants stopping businesses in the area from employing people from "too far" away would be an interesting approach .... and probably needed.

That's crazy. You want to restrict businesses on who they can employ? Why would you actively look to make businesses less competitive?

I think this scheme is a great idea, there is a similar one starting in Limerick. It needs proper transport tonthe rest of the city though. A half-assed job would ruin the place

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So it's not really a non-car development then.

Do not recall anybody saying it was on this thread?

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Current City Development Guidelines for such a Development.

https://geo.galwaycity.ie/DevPlanPDFs/DevPlan_20112017.pdf
Section 11.3
Section 11.10

Which standard will they(Galway City Council) use here?

11.3.1 Outer Suburbs

11.3.2 Established Suburbs

11.3.3 Inner Residential Areas

11.3.4 City Centre Residential Areas

AndrewJRenko

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

My point is to highlight the vast amounts of space, public and private space, given over to storage of private property.

So? Houses are private property should they be "stored", shops and pubs are "stored" on city streets etc etc etc. Its a nonsensical statement that you keep making, it doesn't get any better the more you say it.

what_traffic wrote: »

It probably will though, in reality it is self defeating for Marcelo Delightful Neurology to be advocating this.
Marcelo Delightful Neurology is bona fida Rurbanite.
Lives Rural Galway, works in Urban Galway.
If more City residents drive from a proposed new Development like this, gotta factor in that there is only an infinite amount of space on the roads.
Marcelo Delightful Neurology will be affected by it on car commute from Rural Galway.
In reality - the more City folk who walk, cycle or take the bus and leave the car behind - it does have a knock on benefit for those Rurban commuters like Marcelo Delightful Neurology who drive into and out of the City

I am looking at it from the perspective if I wasn't able to build my own house that I'd be looking for a house and want space for parking at least two cars permanently and multiple cars visiting (my own property will accommodate much more than this obviously but this would be the minimum if I needed to buy in an urban area).

So I am putting myself in the shoes of people looking for a house to buy and I would see it as a massive oversight not having sufficient parking. Even people who don't drive to work generally need a car, anyone with kids needs a car, anyone who wants to travel around the country with any degree of comfort of flexibility needs a car, anyone who doesn't want to be limited to jobs that don't require a car or jobs that you can get to without one needs a car, etc etc etc

Also as an aside, while I live rurally and work in the city I also work on the farm at home and will always run it as a side business when I take it over the running of it myself over time.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So it's not really a non-car development then.

Covenants stopping businesses in the area from employing people from "too far" away would be an interesting approach .... and probably needed.

What an absolutely ridiculous suggestion, people are entitled to live where they want to regardless of where they work. I couldnt even fathom how you think that would be a good idea or fair to drag people away from the areas they want to live, quite possibly away from family and other support structures for kids etc. No way would something like that ever be allowed to be implemented, it is likely highly illegal too.

what_traffic

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I am looking at it from the perspective if I wasn't able to build my own house that I'd be looking for a house and want space for parking at least two cars permanently and multiple cars visiting (my own property will accommodate much more than this obviously but this would be the minimum if I needed to buy in an urban area).

OK- but that was not the question.
Question was posed how would it affect you.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

OK- but that was not the question.
Question was posed how would it affect you.

and I said it won't directly affect me, but my opinion on it does not have to be based on how it will affect me.

I suppose the root of this is that years ago when I moved elsewhere in Ireland for work and needed to find a place to rent and a significant number of places did not have parking available and it limited my choice of places to live a lot, especially the nicer places. Now it wasn't that there were no spaces with the places but most I found were rented separately by the LL or as I was looking in house shares other tenants had the space already. I wasn't even driving to work at the time as I was able to walk but I need my car for going home to Galway every weekend, shopping and many other things.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I am looking at it from the perspective if I wasn't able to build my own house that I'd be looking for a house and want space for parking at least two cars permanently and multiple cars visiting (my own property will accommodate much more than this obviously but this would be the minimum if I needed to buy in an urban area).

So I am putting myself in the shoes of people looking for a house to buy and I would see it as a massive oversight not having sufficient parking. Even people who don't drive to work generally need a car, anyone with kids needs a car, anyone who wants to travel around the country with any degree of comfort of flexibility needs a car, anyone who doesn't want to be limited to jobs that don't require a car or jobs that you can get to without one needs a car, etc etc etc

Also as an aside, while I live rurally and work in the city I also work on the farm at home and will always run it as a side business when I take it over the running of it myself over time.

I have kids but don't have a car. The rise of public transport and the likes of GoCar make it feasible in more densely populated areas. Have visitors regularly and they rarely need parking. They walk if they live near by or park in a dedicated parking facility if they're from further away. And we have disks for parking if they need it, but we've rarely been asked. Friends up from other parts of the country generally park up when they get to the city and then walk around. And they have kids too. Point being if there's adequate alternatives then lots of people will jump at the option. Actually now that I think of it it'll probably be hugely attractive to families since they'd have less fear of their kids getting run over and nothing ruins a nice area for walking and playing more than traffic. Not everyone has the same requirements or desires as yourself. I bet these houses will be snapped up, but then we do have a shortage of houses.


I grew up in the country so I understand the need for cars out there. Particularly if you've a working farm. You won't get any criticism from me over owning a car. TBH I think people like yourself should be all for stuff like this. Leaves more space on the roads for people that need/won't do without a car.

xckjoo

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

and I said it won't directly affect me, but my opinion on it does not have to be based on how it will affect me.

I suppose the root of this is that years ago when I moved elsewhere in Ireland for work and needed to find a place to rent and a significant number of places did not have parking available and it limited my choice of places to live a lot, especially the nicer places. Now it wasn't that there were no spaces with the places but most I found were rented separately by the LL or as I was looking in house shares other tenants had the space already. I wasn't even driving to work at the time as I was able to walk but I need my car for going home to Galway every weekend, shopping and many other things.

This development is within walking distance of 2 super markets, both higher level institutes, the city centre and many job sites. I'd say many younger people would be delighted to not have the cost of keeping a car going! There's always the bus to get home at weekends.

AndrewJRenko

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

So? Houses are private property should they be "stored", shops and pubs are "stored" on city streets etc etc etc. Its a nonsensical statement that you keep making, it doesn't get any better the more you say it.

Let me know if you need any help to understand the difference between a house, a pub and a car.

There is a huge question of the kind of car-centric thinking that leads to this kind of car-centric space allocation, which impedes public transport and cycling.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I am looking at it from the perspective if I wasn't able to build my own house that I'd be looking for a house and want space for parking at least two cars permanently and multiple cars visiting (my own property will accommodate much more than this obviously but this would be the minimum if I needed to buy in an urban area).

Providing your own parking space for your own vehicles and visitors is a great start to moving away from the kind of public subsidies for private motoring that we've had for decades.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

So I am putting myself in the shoes of people looking for a house to buy and I would see it as a massive oversight not having sufficient parking. Even people who don't drive to work generally need a car, anyone with kids needs a car, anyone who wants to travel around the country with any degree of comfort of flexibility needs a car, anyone who doesn't want to be limited to jobs that don't require a car or jobs that you can get to without one needs a car, etc etc etc

Lots of people survive without owning a car - people with kids (cargo bikes, rental cars), people who travel distances for work (cargo bikes, eBikes), people who travel around the country (public transport, rental cars). It may not be for you, but you don't need to impose your narrow views on others.

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

What an absolutely ridiculous suggestion, people are entitled to live where they want to regardless of where they work. I couldnt even fathom how you think that would be a good idea or fair to drag people away from the areas they want to live, quite possibly away from family and other support structures for kids etc. No way would something like that ever be allowed to be implemented, it is likely highly illegal too.

Planning law disagrees with you. People are entitled to live wherever they can get planning to build a house.

serfboard

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I live rurally and work in the city I also work on the farm at home

To me, that puts you in a completely different category to the vast majority of people who live in rural County Galway but who work in the City.

My planning rule would be fairly simple - if you work on the land, you can live on the land. If you don't, you can't.

To facilitate this, we will need to do much more urban medium-rise building, and CPO an awful lot of vacant land.

Otherwise, we can keep building one-off homes in the countryside, and then wonder why we're so car-dependant as a nation.

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

To me, that puts you in a completely different category to the vast majority of people who live in rural County Galway but who work in the City.

My planning rule would be fairly simple - if you work on the land, you can live on the land. If you don't, you can't.

To facilitate this, we will need to do much more urban medium-rise building, and CPO an awful lot of vacant land.

Otherwise, we can keep building one-off homes in the countryside, and then wonder why we're so car-dependant as a nation.

I don’t really agree, why should my sister who also wants to live next to the rest of the family not be allowed to build on our own family land just because she works in the city.

I’m happy enough to have locals only planning rules but being from the area should be enough, actually working the land should not be a rule. What about looking after elderly parents etc and other roles like that?

One-off housing really is the single worst aspect of planning in Ireland.

From a planning, infrastructure and resource perspective there are no advantages and a colossal list of disadvantages.

Countries all over the world do not allow it for good reason.

In the context of this thread, it plays a major role in the farce that is Galway traffic by forcing every single commuter in a one-off house to be a car owner.

Consolidation of accommodation into towns and villages would allow for viable mass transit (buses and trains) across the length and breadth of the country.

Mrs OBumble

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I don’t really agree, why should my sister who also wants to live next to the rest of the family not be allowed to build on our own family land just because she works in the city.

I’m happy enough to have locals only planning rules but being from the area should be enough, actually working the land should not be a rule. What about looking after elderly parents etc and other roles like that?

Because the purpose of having people living rurally is to run farms. Those who aren't farming shouldn't be there.

Jazmin Harsh Gold

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I don’t really agree, why should my sister who also wants to live next to the rest of the family not be allowed to build on our own family land just because she works in the city.

I’m happy enough to have locals only planning rules but being from the area should be enough, actually working the land should not be a rule. What about looking after elderly parents etc and other roles like that?

Same reason we don't allow minors drink, or random lads open shebeens in basements. Society as a whole regulates itself (in theory) for the common good. What is good for your sister isn't good for society as a unit.

It's a hard rule maybe, but ultimately it's what's best for society that counts, not what's best for one individual person.

Wombatman

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

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It may not be for you, but you don't need to impose your narrow views on others.


Bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike, bike, Bike, bike, bike, bike.

Go way outta that.

Johnny_BravoIII

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

I don’t really agree, why should my sister who also wants to live next to the rest of the family not be allowed to build on our own family land just because she works in the city.

I’m happy enough to have locals only planning rules but being from the area should be enough, actually working the land should not be a rule. What about looking after elderly parents etc and other roles like that?

TBH if we had enforced these types of rules even in the 90's post-EU integration the damage could have been controlled.

Currently as it stands we have the third highest emmissions per head in Europe, with one of the most dispersed populations.

Most of our future planning is predominantly around building more roads. It's now in the psyche of the nation with local campaigns for new roads nationwide. Galway, Limerick-Cork etc

The only possible potential for changing our approach to traffic is if enough greens get in to change policy at a national level. Otherwise, we will just continue to wreck the gaff.

Johnny_BravoIII

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

TBH if we had enforced these types of rules even in the 90's post-EU integration the damage could have been controlled.

Currently as it stands we have the third highest emmissions per head in Europe, with one of the most dispersed populations.

Most of our future planning is predominantly around building more roads. It's now in the psyche of the nation with local campaigns for new roads nationwide. Galway, Limerick-Cork etc

The only possible potential for changing our approach to traffic is if enough greens get in to change policy at a national level. Otherwise, we will just continue to wreck the gaff.

Personally I’m am praying no one votes for the greens.

what_traffic

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

and I said it won't directly affect me, but my opinion on it does not have to be based on how it will affect me.

That is interesting. So your opinion is coming from the heart rather than the head.

galwayllm

Galway traffic the reason I moved out of Galway. Best decision ever.

AndrewJRenko

Wombatman wrote: »

Go way outta that.

So nothing that you can actually disagree with or argue against then?

cooperguy

and I said it won't directly affect me, but my opinion on it does not have to be based on how it will affect me.

what_traffic wrote: »

That is interesting. So your opinion is coming from the heart rather than the head.

If anything surely that means the opposite. It isnt an emotional response based on a direct effect on himself?

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Do not recall anybody saying it was on this thread?

Ahh yeah ...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112332326&postcount=438


I'm all in favour of designing neighbourhoods, homes and workplaces to reduce the use of inefficient individual transport.

But the design needs to take account of different life-events and stages. We don't need any more stupidity like New Cemetery with virtually no parking for funeral attendees - so of course they all park on the double yellows, because what choice have they got.

gally74

Jazmin Harsh Gold wrote: »

Most defiantly not. Car owners and drivers already pay for too much to own a car and use the roads, asking them to put more would be absolute insanity and massively unfair. I reckon you would struggle to find a 3 figure number of people in the entire city and county who would even entertain the idea.

We need light rail, over a ring road

Laviski

gally74 wrote: »

We need light rail, over a ring road

only good if we have high density along a route.... Galway does not have that.

multi story apt blocks are needed along a route not just confined to inner city.

gally74

gally74 wrote: »

We need light rail, over a ring road

The benefit from light rail would be extremely limited, the ring road would benefit massively more. Light rail would just be a waste of money in Galway.

beardybrewer

grbear

Which should come first? High density development or a public transport system that'd facilitate that sort of development?

zell12

grbear wrote: »

Which should come first? High density development or a public transport system that'd facilitate that sort of development?

Either.
Dart started in 1984, no high density then.

I agree that Galway is not densified enough, best option are buses which are flexible and not tied to a fixed line.

grbear

Services like the DART enabled higher density development though.

How many times have we heard "impact on local traffic" or words to that effect mentioned when it comes to planning objections?

Maybe we need to change the way these services are operated so that if we ever ended up with a GLUAS that the council would be the ones earning a profit on it instead of it going to a private operator. That'd probably violate every competition law in the land unfortunately.

grbear

Not sure I've got the tone of that last post right. I know its a bit of a daft idea, just wanted to throw it out there.