Galway traffic

A sea wall would meet a lot of resistance like in Clontarf.

I remember when the current defenses were proposed there was a lot of resistance too.

ratracer

If there’s two things people hate, it’s 1) Change, and 2) Things staying the same!!

.

Scratch that, I'm not getting involved

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543575#Comment_118543575

"Prom is extremely exposed, a cyclist traveling from town to even Kingston wouldn't use it on any day with a bit of wind... "

Actually, I cycle from town to Kingston most days via the Prom. The only time the wind will stop me is if it's at the Met Eireann warning level and that's nothing to do with the Prom. I just won't cycle at all on the rare days when wind speeds get that high because of the dangers from side winds pushing you into traffic rather than it being any other sort of barrier.

Cycling out the Prom in the wind makes for a slightly more strenuous workout, but it doesn't make it feel any more dangerous, as the wind is generally coming at you head on more so that from the side. I see the same faces cycling towards me most mornings too, irrespective of the wind levels.

The reality is that cycle traffic on that route, like car traffic, is much heavier eastbound in the morning and westbound in the evenings. So for most people the wind it actually in their favour in the morning when they're making the decision whether to cycle that day. By the time it comes to cycle home they're already in town with their bike so you just get on with it even if it is a bit windy.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543486#Comment_118543486

Screenshot 2022-01-28 at 12.06.32.png

Seems to have huge support from various resident groups on Facebook. I know a good few people that live (don't just socialise) in Salthill and would much prefer a cycleway instead of a carpark.

Only a fool would want a carpark instead of a cycleway outside their house.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544050#Comment_118544050

Clontarf is an actual wall...

What we would be saying is to move oput the Prom into the sea and put in wave repellers like this

Would need a bit more thinking bu the general idea is get the extra space from the sea while putting in defences..

It's definitely a good longer term plan. It'll be slow moving through planning as it's building into a special area of conservation.

I don't think trialing a cycleway in the short term would have any impact of moving in that direction. It would be easy to move the cycleway when the coastal protections are in place and restore on-street parking if needed.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544398#Comment_118544398

Great man... I keep on saying this...

This is about people wanting to cycle over taking a car... They don't want to be as easy as possible... A large part of them will see a breezy day and won't bother... The route doesn't go near the big secondary schools... My alternative would be linking the biggest population area in Galway to the main schools... Compare how many people are living in Knocknacarra compared to around the Prom...

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545040#Comment_118545040

These kind of half-assed flooding proposals wont solve anything. The reason for parts of salthill flooding during spring tides & storm surges is because the land is reclaimed, and the abnormally high tides will flood drains from below. Aquarium carpark floods from below every time, not from overtopping waves.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544966#Comment_118544966

The only West ward politician still vocally supporting this is the Green Party guy... I think that tells you where the support has gone...

Anyway before the High court can get involved...

As I have been saying for years... The City Executive are crap... They are the most useless show of idiots known to mankind...

This was a basic phone call they could have made last Sept and saved us this hassle..

I don't think they contacted the Schools, Golf Club, GAA.... before this either... This is brain dead stuff...

John_Rambo

Very interesting, what you've been saying for years. You've also been saying there's no local support for the cycleway in Satlhill, but there's huge local support according to all the community FB pages and people in Salthill I know so I'll be taking what you've been saying for years with a pinch of salt.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545356#Comment_118545356

You have to wonder about the competency of responsible individuals in the emergency services in this regard too. The solution to any concerns here is to make the cycleway 3m wide at the point where there is one way traffic so the emergency services can use the cycleway. It's already working that way in Dublin and is standard practice in countries with more developed infrastructure. It's yet another manifestation of the 'Galway is different, we don't need any foreign ideas here' mentality.

It was the same when they planned to pedestrianise Lower Dominick Street in the evenings during the summer to let restaurants use outside seating. Standard practice all over the world is to facilitate this while leaving routes unimpeded for emergency services. All they needed to do was leave the centre of the road clear of furniture, planters etc. (a 3m wide strip required for emergency services). Pedestrians can walk on this 3m strip but they can step out of the way to let emergency services through a lot more quickly than drivers stuck in traffic could get their cars can get out of the way.

This has been proven to work in other countries for decades already. It's not rocket science and it often serves to make response times even quicker. But for some reason there is resistance to it happening in Galway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545356#Comment_118545356

Emergency services are always going to object to diversions, such is the nature of their function that they never want a change and that's totally understandable.

However, as has been seen in the cases of one-way streets, pedestrianised areas etc all over the country, the diversions rarely have any impact in the provision of services.

Indeed, as seen recently in Dublin, the provision of bi-directional bike lanes has had a positive impact as the services have been able to use those lanes to bypass traffic jams.

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545386#Comment_118545386

460 people on facebook is not huge support and it doesn't make it clear that they want ban parking and have a one way system... Actually 460 is quite low considering it is such a bland title...

This cycle lane got 17 - 1 vote until they saw what it meant... They are deserting it as quick as they can... Cllr. Lyons is just cute hoor who could see this before it was going to happen...

The Village Salthill

has 15,800 followers

CowboyTed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545451#Comment_118545451

So now it is the emergency services fault...

By the way have you ever seen an ambulance getting down a pedestrian street on a Saturday Night...

So the Fire Brigade will slow dow to a snail pace to get through the road... What speed do you think they could achieve on a cycle lane?

Seriously we have people here trying to tell Emergency Drivers how to drive...

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545517#Comment_118545517

Problematic section is Gentian Hill, its not wide enough, but the Prom section for sure will be wide enough

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545530#Comment_118545530

Good point, the Village Salthill has 15,800 followers and they all seem to support the cycleway. I don't see one post opposing it on the page, but I see lots of posts supporting it.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545711#Comment_118545711

Hey - dont you know that the Village Salthill isnt full of REAL salthill people, the majority dont make their views known anywhere but to a certain boards poster

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545567#Comment_118545567

Certainly the emergency services could be doing better if there approach is 'no, you can't change anything' instead of 'how can we achieve the outcome this change is designed to bring about without negatively impacting our own outcomes'.

But you're just being deliberately obtuse. A 3m carriageway is a 3m carriageway. How does it make any difference to the speed of emergency vehicles whether the surface is coloured red and has a bike symbol painted on it, or if it's coloured grey/black? The only difference is the obstructions the emergency vehicle has to deal with along the way and a 65cm/15kg bike is lot more feasible to get out of the way quickly than a line of 2m wide cars in the same space.

Nobody is telling emergency drivers how to drive, and it says a lot about the strength of your own arguments that you feel the need to try to put words into other people's mouths rather than address what they actually say.

Concerns about emergency services were raised in the Netherlands in the 1970s and 1980s. They've spent 50 years working to get it right. So, even though their road system is designed to make car journeys longer and discourage rat running through residential areas, the restrictions are specifically designed to not impede emergency services. The result is that ambulance response times in the Netherlands, even when the fall short of their very high targets, are still ahead of the theoretical targets in Ireland. Of course our actual outcomes are way short of even our own unambitious targets. That's down to other aspects of the health system as much as it is to journey times but the fact is that, even with a transport system with only a fraction of the car dominance that Ireland has, it is totally possible to move emergency vehicles around quickly and efficiently.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545674#Comment_118545674

There are couple of tight points there all right. But the emergency services are going out that way already. Logically, if the centre white line remains where it is, the westbound lane can be emergency vehicles and bikes only and the eastbound lane stays unchanged. The Council get a DMURS derogation for pretty much every permanent change it makes in the road system so it should be even less of an issue for a six month trial. Then, if there is a plan to do anything permanent afterwards, they could CPO narrow slivers of land along that 100m strip to widen it standard.

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545943#Comment_118545943

I agree it is doable but not sure will it happen in the trial.

I suspect that Option 2 will be chosen, but cycle lane will stop/start from Blackrock. (Probably that was plan all along anyways for the Executive)

If City Executive is going down this route - which I suspect they are. I think it should be a minimum a two way cycle way from Pollnarooma West (road widths and verge would allow for this) so at least to provide some semblance of connectivity to Knocknacarra via Brooklawn/Pollnarooma West.

Going to be real interesting to see how this pans out. What is really noticeable from reading social media etc - a lot of people struggle with the idea that car traffic is linear. People struggle with the idea that it will get displaced/evaporate around the prom if people have other options available to them.

Some residents are threatening to use the courts

https://connachttribune.ie/cycleway-trial-may-be-heading-for-courts/

They are fully entitled to, however, as mentioned previously, it will merely delay the trial, not cancel it.

The Sandymount injunction is still going through the courts and, as expected, legislation is being implemented because of the Sandymount legal action, to explicitly allow for short-term trials such as these to be carried out without requiring planning permission. This will allow for future trials to avoid this threat.

You have to wonder though, how much these residents are will to pay (40-50k) in order to protect free parking

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546074#Comment_118546074

The Council Executive have previously said they can't do a shorter distance because the motion the Councillors voted on said it had to go to Barna Road. I understand there were moves to shorten it to retain two way traffic, that the majority of Councillors would have gone along with, but the executive stuck to a rigid interpretation for this (even though they've been quite happy to vary significantly on other motions on the basis when they decided stuff wasn't practical). Maybe it will still be shortened. It would be a double edged sword though. It would placate some of the more vocal opposition but would also make the cycleway significantly less useful in terms of allowing people from Knocknacarra to safely access the Prom.

That's very true about concept of car traffic being a fixed volume, and it's not just among the general public. I can't remember right now who it was but, as recently as last year, some state employed transport professional tried to explain to an audience that traffic is like a liquid and if you restrict the flow at one point it will emerge somewhere else. No nuance about the concepts of traffic evaporation and induced demand. If you've got the professionals living in the 20th Century how do the general public stand a chance?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545567#Comment_118545567

Funny how all these concerned advocates for emergency services emerge when a bike lane is mentioned. Where were all the advocates worried about emergency vehicles slowed by abysmal traffic every day?

Just incase anyone thinks the current situation around Salthill is safe

https://twitter.com/GalwayCycling/status/1487065754289815559?s=20&t=5mrJmFZmLULZuotCLZZ26w

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546235#Comment_118546235

Second time I've seen "traffic evaporation" today. Where is this proven? How can it be proven that this would arise in Salthill if this goes ahead?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545517#Comment_118545517

Just as a follow up to this

https://irishcycle.com/2022/01/28/gardai-refuse-to-comment-on-reported-objection-to-galway-cycle-path-senator-calls-claims-emergency-services-delay-spurious/

So much support from all facets of life around Galway for the bike lanes in Salthill, its truly a heartening display of people coming together

https://twitter.com/GalwayCycling/status/1487048451607212038?s=20&t=5mrJmFZmLULZuotCLZZ26w

what_traffic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546343#Comment_118546343

You might trial something and measure before and after ......... however don' think our annual November traffic counts will be of help here.

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546341#Comment_118546341

DaCor,

Genuine question about this one, so please don't jump down my throat or start throwing reams of statistics at me. I'm trying to understand the cyclist campaigner mentality here.

Yes, some/most of those drivers are assholes. Sounding the horn near kids is only designed to scare them, it's bullying. But, at the start of the video for example, there are two abreast with the adult way out towards the centre. At approx. 1.02 and 1.10 bikes are three abreast (and yes, I know those are kids again). Is this not just blocking cars on purpose? Is it designed to produce a reaction?